Michael Moore

[hamish]

I just got the time to watch it through. That is one scary piece of journalism....

"Invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.." The mind boggles.

Hey, Jim Smith, I'm just relieved the link worked!! Wasn't Coulter made a right eejit of when she mentioned Canada participating in Vietnam?? Hope a few otherFootiepersons watch it. Thanks, man.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Used to watch TV Nation on BBC 2 all those years ago
His TV programs, documentaries( the couple I have seen) are a little less understated than his books. However "Roger and Me" his first documentary highlighted the naked greed of American corporations shutting down factories in the good old USA to open up plants in Third World Countries and exploit dirt poor people on Krapp wages just to make more money.
Nobody in America had highlighted that issue before. These are American companies throwing their own citizens on the scrapheap.

Yes he is boorish, he is arrogant and believes his opinions are the only ones that matter. He is fairly typical of the so called liberal agenda which is all the rage especially in the media in Ireland for example and is just as intolerant of other views as the right wingers he rails against. However as was pointed out earlier nothing in Fahrenheit 9/11 was proved to be factually incorrect and it is now known that American Politics is because of the costs involved in mounting a campaign, the most corrupt in the Western World as the candidates are completely beholden to their backers.

The sad fact of the matter is that Politics in Western Europe is already sliding down that slippery slope.... and given that Socialism did not work in the Iron Curtain era,... all hope is lost

[hamish]

Absolutely true, CTID. It's worrying to see the voting numbers dropping for elections everywhere. I often wonder if is a chicken and egg situation, do we get the politicians we deserve or are people completely turned off when they see, other posts, the McDaid/Lawlor/Ray Burke scenarios.
I was messing with a computer quiz game a few days ago and one of the questions was "Name the first elected socialist government in the World?" - answer Labour. Whe you look at the likes of Blair and co. it's impossible to even let the term "left" enter the mind!!
What I like about Moore is his guts. All of the major US news media is pi$$poor and very conservative, Faux "News" is just the most extreme and it must be a major task for Moore, Franken and company just to be heard/visible. The mere fact that they have achieved some visibility is one hell of an achievement given what they're up against.
Perhaps there is some light at the end of the tunnel but, God forbid, I reckon it'll take another 9/11 before the scales come off many Americans eyes - Bush can't use his I'm protecting you mantra then. But, as i said, God Forbid.

[CollegeTillIDie]

sir hamish

Agreed about the drop off in voters. We do get the politicians we deserve in that others are too lazy to become involved. I am fed up with non-voters criticizing both government and opposition. Earn the right to criticize I say VOTE AT THE NEXT ELECTION even if it is for the Green's or some wacky Independent.

The only way to change things is either run for election , or at least turn up at the polling booth and pick an alternative. If the current level of apathy continues a dangerous highly mobilized unrepresentative shower of batsards will get in.
That was how the Fascists got elected across Europe in the 1930's, poor Election turn outs.
There is a lesson there for those of us in the Republic of Ireland who do not happen to like balaclavas as a fashion item

[pete]

We ALWAYS get the politicians we deserve. They wouldn't be there if we didn't vote them in. The Lawlors, Burkes, Lourys of this world were there because locals re-elected them. Loury got relected a couple of times afetr all his dodgy dealings became know.

[Metrostars]

One of the major problems with the media over here in the US is that almost all of the content is driven by opinion and little by fact. It's funny that Fox News' mantra is "We Report You Decide". A more accurate line is "We Decide What We Report". I really can't give an accurate opinion on Fox News nowadays as I havent watch it in years. The others such as CNN, MSNBC, NY Times etc seem not to want to step on anyone's toes and are afraid to push the limits of reporting and seriously question this adminitration.

And that is reflected in the democratic party and their nomination of Kerry last year. Safe bet. Won't cause too much trouble. And it ended up that Kerry probably received more votes for being "not Bush" than "for Kerry".

So what happens in 2008? Well, Hilary is already starting to stir and might go for the nomination. Over the last 5 or so years, she has made a big shift to being more moderate, in favor of the war in Iraq etc. As much as I hate her I would still vote for her over a repub. And that's her problem. As many people hate her as much as they hate W here. I wish Dean would get the nom, he fits in perfectly with my views. As for the republicans, there was talk of Jeb Bush but I don't think he will run. George Allen, governor for Virginia (red state of course) looks to be the early favorite. Guys like Guiliani and McCain will never get the republican nomination.

[hamish]

Agree with CTID, people have no excuse when they don't vote. The Shinners got elected to the local Town Council last election and, boy, were they organised. They held meetings at a nearby hall bussed/drove hoards of people to the booth - nothing new about that, all parties have done it - but their sheer efficiency was amazing. When you look at the disintegration of Yugoslavia and its aftermatch, it's frightening how barbarism takes hold and so QUICKLY. Lesson for any country there.
Metrostars, said to you above that Dean would have been a great President. His record in Vermont is excellent. But I have all the US news channels and they are very polite and don't seem to wish to ask hard questions. Compare any of them to eg. Jereny Paxman of the BBC and they are poor. I think that's because they get sort of blacklisted if they ask too many hard questions. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
I don't count the likes of Insanity or O'Liley - they're just idiotic.
I will never vote SF if they associate themselves with crime/murder etc. My Dad was in the old IRA (post 1916 era) and, even, in the 1960s, he was very worried the way the IRA were going - this all before the Provos etc. What would he think now??

[pineapple stu]

Lowry got relected a couple of times after all his dodgy dealings became know.

Lowry got re-elected because, when push came to shove, he did a hell of a lot for his local constituency. Which is all that matters in the end really. Others too, I'd say.

However, I'd say the drop off in voting is largely because people are just getting more cynical about who they're voting for. Loads of promises, then loads of bickering at people for not keeping the promises, then loads of weaseling out of the promises, etc., etc. Then you have the likes of the Iraq war where the politicians in charge resolutely ignored the public's will even though they were then and now quite clearly in the right. You then have the likes of Bush pointing out how all of Europe were behind the Yanks because their leaders were. Makes people wonder what's the point, I suppose.

[hamish]

Yeh, pineapple stu, their sheer hard neck/brazen nature really gets me. I still think, even if there is no further attack on the US, that Bush and co, will leave horrible legacies for the country in social, political, religious areas etc.

[pete]

Lowry got re-elected because, when push came to shove, he did a hell of a lot for his local constituency. Which is all that matters in the end really. Others too, I'd say.

Therefore because people vote for suspected crook on basis of local "good" how can the populous complain about corruption. Seems irish people only anti-corruption when they don't benefit themselves.

[hamish]

You mean this story isn't true? I've just read and heard bits about her and, if I'm correct, her radio show. She does strike me as a bit over the top.

Just seen her on Fox - she/he HAS an Adam's apple. She/He also criticised gay marriage and I only meant that as a joke!! Could she/he not marry herself/himself, I wonder??
She was booed at an American college recently and one student asked her "would you like it up the ass?? - I'm not kidding!! Oh dear oh dear.

[hamish]

Just got the entire series "The Awful Truth" - second series in fact and it's brilliant. Ran it on this computer thingy because it's an area 1 DVD and won't run on the DVD player.
Thoroughly enjoyed - Moore is very funny and I really didn't get any sense of arrogance off him.
The Pistol Pete scene was hilarious.
I couldn't get over the number of people interviewed who got their knickers in a twist every time one of Moore's assiatant reporters visited their offices.
I believe many corporations now run sort of orientation courses so that they will come over as better than humourless gob$hites when interviewed by Moore and Co. again.
Just ordered series 1.

[Speranza]

I agree with the sentiment that Moore is arrogant but he brings important politcal facts to a level where it is entertaining and that reaches out to the usually apathetic section of society. If people enjoy Moore and have a genuine interest in left politics then you can't get better than Noam Chomsky, although seriously heavy reading he is superb and his series of interviews named "9/11" in the book form was almost prophetic before the "war on terror'. Most of his work is available for free on his site for free.

[CollegeTillIDie]

Just got the entire series "The Awful Truth" - second series in fact and it's brilliant. Ran it on this computer thingy because it's an area 1 DVD and won't run on the DVD player.
Thoroughly enjoyed - Moore is very funny and I really didn't get any sense of arrogance off him.
The Pistol Pete scene was hilarious.
I couldn't get over the number of people interviewed who got their knickers in a twist every time one of Moore's assiatant reporters visited their offices.
I believe many corporations now run sort of orientation courses so that they will come over as better than humourless gob$hites when interviewed by Moore and Co. again.
Just ordered series 1.

I have several of his books and saw his TV Nation series on BBC 2 some years ago found him entertaining if a bit too "right on and PC" at times but he is mostly correct in his assertions.

[hamish]

I agree with the sentiment that Moore is arrogant but he brings important politcal facts to a level where it is entertaining and that reaches out to the usually apathetic section of society. If people enjoy Moore and have a genuine interest in left politics then you can't get better than Noam Chomsky, although seriously heavy reading he is superb and his series of interviews named "9/11" in the book form was almost prophetic before the "war on terror'. Most of his work is available for free on his site for free.

Bought a pile of Chomsky book lately but haven't started to read 'em yet.

[hamish]

I have several of his books and saw his TV Nation series on BBC 2 some years ago found him entertaining if a bit too "right on and PC" at times but he is mostly correct in his assertions.

I have a nearly all his stuff too CTID - his latest book on letters from US soldiers is Iraq makes shocking reading. There are many soldiers like Pat Hackett who know that the entire Iraqi situation is an unwinnable mess.
Hackett is going back on duty to Iraq soon and just narrowly failed a few days ago to overturn a 70/30 Republican majority in a part of Ohio - he won four of the six zones and just lost out in the other two zones - the biggest populated ones - all of this on Crooks and Liars website.
I think Moore is very funny - especially the quickie interviews with people in Noo Yawk before he goes into a clip.
As for the PC bit - he wouldn't last long in Footieland, would he???

[CollegeTillIDie]

I have a nearly all his stuff too CTID - his latest book on letters from US soldiers is Iraq makes shocking reading. There are many soldiers like Pat Hackett who know that the entire Iraqi situation is an unwinnable mess.
Hackett is going back on duty to Iraq soon and just narrowly failed a few days ago to overturn a 70/30 Republican majority in a part of Ohio - he won four of the six zones and just lost out in the other two zones - the biggest populated ones - all of this on Crooks and Liars website.
I think Moore is very funny - especially the quickie interviews with people in Noo Yawk before he goes into a clip.
As for the PC bit - he wouldn't last long in Footieland, would he???

But I think he admires the Green Bay Packers because they are a supporters co-op effectively. A bit like Shamrock Rovers 2005 really

[hamish]

But I think he admires the Green Bay Packers because they are a supporters co-op effectively. A bit like Shamrock Rovers 2005 really

Only without the vio.........no I won't say it LOL

[anto1208]

i used to like him , bowling for columbine was good , but the 9/11 one was rubbish 1 1/2 of bush bashing , like thats hard work he manages to do that himself all the time . i liked his no nonsence interveiw style but lost all respect for him when he was asked to go on the last word and said he would only on the condition that he picked the questions !!!

plus he use's interveiws and chops and changes them to make them match his veiws ie matt stone from south park went nuts when he saw his interveiw in bowling for columbine he said it was cut to agree with moores point when he dissagreed with a lot of what he said .

[Metrostars]

He has a new one coming out soon about HMOs in the US (health care insurance companies).

Again, nothing new as HMOs like many large businesses over here are in bed with the pols but noone seems to care.