Yes
No
Originally Posted by monutdfc
Exactly ....... is it wrong of us to make this observation ..... he makes the show .... or the journo writes the article and we the punter read/view it ..... we are totally entitled to discuss the merits or in these case the lack of on the strength of what we are being given.
In my opinion .... all of these guys deserve every bit of criticism they get. If they put something out in the public domain, is the punter entitled to have an opinion on it ??
Can someone confirm this or not ??
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
This stuff is pretty delusional.
The only news worth printing about the eircom league is bad news because it is crap.
The facilities are crap, most of the players are crap, the refs are crap, the directors are crap....
The only way bad news stories will stop is when clubs get their act together.
MFA-Cheers
Catch 22
...... and i dont see you offering a viable solution ??? Why is that ???
And there is no way the league is as bad as you are making it out to be.
"This stuff is pretty delusional"
Delusional ..... not at all, there is no one (well, most anyway) under an illusion in this thread .... the poll is 55 to 11 ..... that speaks for itself. A cross section of people who have an interest in the league, would be the first to read those stories and would have an interest in all things concerning the league and standard of football .... and the general consensus amoung them is the media are negative, how is the delusional ???
Would i be right in saying that it is not delusional at all, that it is totally correct that alot of reporting is opportunist to say the least.
Why is there never any good reports ..... is it a reflection on the league ?? ..... is there never anything good happening in the league ?? Both those last two questions ... the answer is No ... there is a lot of good happening in the league, but it is never given any coverage.
Fair enough .... take the good with the bad, with a balance ... constructive criticism but the stuff that is being printed now is not and it is being seen as that and it is not at all delusional .... people opinions on it are very real and accurate.
If there was balanced objective documentation every week/day on the league, where well researched articles were written, including everyones opinion on that particular topic and this all compiled an accurate report on the current situation on that topic, that would be brilliant .... and anything that was said and ranted about, you could but only take it on board because of the way it was presented .... as rational argument with reasoned thought.
If not then it is only fish and chip paper and not worth talking about. If it is not .... it will never effect or provoke change, it will never be instrumental in improving the current situation. It will only delude the writer into thinking that their opinion matters. It wont ... it'll be forgotten about and rightly so.
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
The sad thing about Des is , he actually goes to EL matches. Can you imagine what his stance would be like if he never bothered?
Green Force
Our national printed media are a frigging disgrace. The newspapers here are full of English FA Premiershi*.
There is precious little room for the domestic game. And I dispute what some others say. No other country's Press in Europe has such little room FOR IT'S OWN DOMESTIC LEAGUE in the printed media. I have been to Czech Republic, Romania , Poland and Serbia in recent years. Their sports pages give the vast majority of column inches , TO THEIR OWN LEAGUES.
And I wouldn't mind only the Irish Times is full of wired stories culled from the Guardian. And it's twice the price of the aforementioned newspaper!
The facilities are crap... why? Because the clubs have no money.
Why do the clubs have no money? Well one reason is lazy batsards prefer to go to boozers rather than pay into watch games in person.
Most of the players are crap.... SO ARE MOST OF THE ONES IN THE PREMIERSHIP! e.g. Danny Mills 25 England caps as a right back... you're having a laugh
The refs are crap... the directors are crap... SO ARE MOST OF THE ONES IN THE PREMIERSHIP e.g. the ex board of Leeds United
Last edited by CollegeTillIDie; 07/05/2005 at 8:47 AM.
Am I the only person who thinks the opposite? When I go to Landsdown Road or another big stadium I'm herded into a terrace or packed stand where I have to stay for two hours untill I'm herded back out again onto a crowded road.
When I go to an eL game I can choose where I want to sit or stand. The view I get, about 5 - 10 meters back from the pitch, is one I'd probably have to pay 100 euro for in Landsdown. I can get up and walk around to talk to my friends or to use the toilet or shop whenever I want.
I find the facilities and comfort at eL games much better than games in big stadiums.
Lansdowne is horrible. Terraces have very few entrances so always crowding when entering & leaving. Not enough food, toliets oe any other facility for the size of the crowds.
Turners Cross, Tolka & Dalymount are more comfortable with big crowds.
Football in this country is not newsworthy because no one supports it.
That is simply down to the way football is run by the FAI, the League and the clubs.
As a result the only stories coming out of it are bad news stories.
Finn Harps breaking even and finishing last is not a story. In the same way as the Sunday business post is not going to report on the corner shop that makes a few bob for its owners the sports editors are not going to report on that story.
Rovers losing €2.3m IS a story, Ollie getting injunctions IS a story, Pats getting a League title for finishing 3rd IS a story.
It might be negative but its not "too focused" on the negative. The fact is, like it or not, football is such a joke in this country that it only gives negative stories to the hacks to write about.
Get over it. If positive stories are to come to fruition clubs need to get their acts together. A new rule book, a real licence, proper facilities, proper marketing and promotional schemes. Thats when the crowds will come and thats when the press will be positive, not before.
MFA-Cheers
Green Force
If they put in match reports for every game in every paper it would be a start! The non-existant First Division coverage in the Irish Times springs to mind. How is any Irish Times reader going to decide whether or not to attend a First Division game when he/she doesn't know it exists if they only read the D'Olier Street Diary ?
Last edited by CollegeTillIDie; 07/05/2005 at 4:59 PM.
Green Force
We are not a great nation for supporting sports at all.
People think going to 3-4 Championship games a season makes A GAA Fan... THEY'RE WRONG!
People here think going to 4-5 International games a seasons makes a soccer fan ... THEY ARE EVEN MORE WRONG and People think going to 2-3 , Six Nations games a season makes a rugby fan.....EVEN WRONGER STILL.
We have become a nation of event attenders.
The days of huge crowds EVERY WEEK in soccer rugby or indeed Gaelic and Hurling are like the days when we had a manufacturing industry in this country Long gone !
Bald Student
I was quoting Green whathis name when I said the facilities are crap.. just trying to attack the points he was making. Sorry if I was unclear about that.
Green force is just another critical "supporter".Which Eircom league team do you support and how many games a season do you go to.Are you so ashamed of your team that you will not put up their avaitor,it's bad enough having barstoolers who have never went to an Eircom league criticising but to have a so called "supporter" critising is something else,he should know the struggle all E.L. clubs and real supporters are going through.
Last edited by Anto McC; 07/05/2005 at 5:14 PM.
How in gods name can you say the national domestic league is not news worthy when it is our NATIONAL league .... It is Irish players who are coming up through the system and they are playing at the highest level in the country.
You say none supports it, i'd say you are wrong, totally ..... with no support what so ever, whenever RTE show a live eL game ... the viewing figure that the release themselves is always over 200,000 when most english games barely get 120,000 ... Chlesea ManU which should be unreal figure barely got over 150,000 and there is no way you can say Chelsea ManU dont get support. How can you justify that ??? [SIZE=1]i'd seriously love to hear you argument to that[/SIZE]
You could have a point there but surely you are not going to try and justify your argument on that basis ?? ARE YOU ??That is simply down to the way football is run by the FAI, the League and the clubs.
As a result the only stories coming out of it are bad news stories.
The league does need to improve but for you to say that because the need exists it justifies the coverage it get ...... what drugs are you on ??
TIP: [SIZE=1]Just to let you know ..... not matter what league you go to, where ever in the world, in every single sport ... there will always be a team at the the bottom and probably breaking even. [/SIZE]Finn Harps breaking even and finishing last is not a story. In the same way as the Sunday business post is not going to report on the corner shop that makes a few bob for its owners the sports editors are not going to report on that story.
But you being selective in picking out Harps as an example we'll leave go.
Why cant the media report on efforts being made all over the league, first and premier ?? You are totally wrong saying that there isn't positives to report on. [SIZE=1]For the record, again i am say a balance, a true reflection on what is happening[/SIZE]
Agreed .... i totally agree, these issue need highlighting. It is essential that all these incidents are documented and reported to the punter. There is no value you can put on the fans being informed on what is happening.Rovers losing €2.3m IS a story, Ollie getting injunctions IS a story, Pats getting a League title for finishing 3rd IS a story.
But a balanced coverage is probably more important, so the punter has THE FULL PICTURE [SIZE=1]the penny should drop anytime soon[/SIZE] .... Can i say that again ..... The Full Picture, not things taken out of context, not selective reporting.
It is !!It might be negative but its not "too focused" on the negative.
It doesn't ... you are wrong.The fact is, like it or not, football is such a joke in this country that it only gives negative stories to the hacks to write about.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree because I think that misleading, opportunist selective reporting is always going to leave the league and people working in it with an unfair disadvantage in trying to encourage people to support the national league.Get over it. If positive stories are to come to fruition clubs need to get their acts together. A new rule book, a real licence, proper facilities, proper marketing and promotional schemes. Thats when the crowds will come and thats when the press will be positive, not before.
If the punter, Mr. Joe Public was given the correct, accurate truthful representation for what is happening in the league they would be more enclined to attend games.
Again .... i am not asking for the league to be given a leg up, i am not saying the issues and problems should be swept under the carpet and never see the light of day, quite the oppoiste. I am saying the the WHOLE STORY should be reported on. ...... IT IS NOT right now.
I take your points on board, the rule book should be improved and tightened up but this is happening all the time i.e. the sideline ban reviewed etc. it is ALWAYS happening but NEVER reported .... [SIZE=1]are you getting it, i am saying you probably didn't know because it is never focused on[/SIZE]
A real licence .... yeah ... the UEFA Licence is being implemented, how more real can you get ?? [SIZE=1]I presume UEFA seem to think it is real considering the effort they are putting into it.[/SIZE] What kind of licence do you suggest ?? What else does it need to have in it .... help us out here man ?? Shine the light .... what is wrong with the current licence ??
Seriously ... are you nit-picking or do you have something to contribute ???
Help us help you .... reply on this matter !!
Proper facilities ... i hear ya ... i say the same, but not to recognise (or ignore as the case may be) the efforts being made at the moment is simple wrong. You cant justify it ..... i understand that more effort needs to be made and it will be. The UEFA licencing has shoved and pushed and it is happening. in some cases, slowly and surely but it is happening.
If the media recognised the efforts being made and focused on it, assisting the clubs to rasie funds and sponsorship with positive justified reporting, they wouldn't have such an up hill struggle.
Proper Marketing and Promotional Schemes .... look at the title of the thread !!
Agreed though ..... more needs to be done but can i again ask you to look at the title of this thread !?!! [SIZE=1]do me a favour .... listen for the penny [/SIZE]
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
Thats the point all these people who are "wrong" buy the papers and want to read about their events. Its simple economics. Papers print crap about premier league = sales, papers print positive stoy about EL club = no sales.
Huge week to week crows are only a thing of the past because there is no concerted effort to get people going and if this is to happen the facilities need to be up to scratch for them to keep coming.
MFA-Cheers
Ok, bit of an essay there so here goes.
*Being our National league does not confer the right to media coverage. Enough supporters who want media coverage will force that to happen, but at the moment there are only about 50-60,000 LoI fans. Tv figures, eh rte probably made them up to flog advertising for matches advertisers didnt want to pay for.
*"TIP: Just to let you know ..... not matter what league you go to, where ever in the world, in every single sport ... there will always be a team at the the bottom and probably breaking even. " Point is its not feckin newsworthy, get over it.
*positives are there thats my point, but they are not interesting. A positive news story = Nick Leeson, negative = €2.3m debt, and the harps example (apologies to harpers) is just not newsworthy.That is balanced like it or not.
* OK there are some positive stories but the majority of the news from our mleague worth reporting on is bad news.
*its not the paper/ media/ journalists job to promote the league, they report it as it is in response to what will sell papers.
* A real licence, ok try this for starters, a licence with specified legal requirements, not loose aspirations that can be taken apart in court. Specific sanctions and degrees of sanction that are binding when the licence committee makes it decision on a club that fails to meet criteria. Whats wrong with the current licence is that it was a project by 3rd class kids on what they thought SHOULD be done but theres no way of implementig it at all. For example, Rovers meet more of the general requirements now than before the examinership started yet the FAI wont be able to apply any specific penalty as its open to judicial review. Jokeshop. (though as a rovers fan I'm quite happy about this point). Uefa issue guidelines, its the FAI who did up the document, I've read it, it is a mess, there are so many ways around it that if it was put on the mad cow roundabout there'd be no traffic problems anywhere in Dublin.
*Facilities, ok here's a reply. ANY club could handily enough raise €500k with a bit of a push and a proper plan with the fans. That allows dept of sport funding of a further €1.0m, now EVERY ground in the country could do with a new stand or a €1.5m upgrade. Do that and it will be easir to keep people coming. This is ASIDE from any scheme promised to the FAI that clubs are currently uusing as an excuse to do nothing.
*
Last edited by Green Force; 08/05/2005 at 1:40 AM.
MFA-Cheers
Read my posts without getting your "I'm an eircom league fan" knickers in a twist.
Green force sorta gives it away, nb, not bray.
So I'm criticising the league, some bloke actually posted a good response to it and I replied again, your just having a go which makes me think that:
1. you cant take constructive criticism of the league, and by f*** it needs it.
2. you have nothing to contribute anyway.
You're admitting its a struggle yet demanding that you get blanket positive media coverage. If a struggle is not negative I dont know what is and hacks cant ignore that.
MFA-Cheers
city fans here must surely remember paul daly re:intertoto last year
Did these clubs think about making going to the game an attractive proposition for joe public and promote that fact in the community? Again, its not the papers job to promote a league that gets 3 figure crowds. Its the clubs job to get/increase support which in turn results in coverage. Its the real worl FFS.Green Force
If they put in match reports for every game in every paper it would be a start! The non-existant First Division coverage in the Irish Times springs to mind. How is any Irish Times reader going to decide whether or not to attend a First Division game when he/she doesn't know it exists if they only read the D'Olier Street Diary ?
MFA-Cheers
There are two points there so the first. The national League does not confer the right to coverage .... Why ?? .... Why does it not ? or why does a foreign league confer the right OVER the national league .... which brings us to the second point above.
There are far more fans that than rest assured and i'll tell you that because i know that at least half that number exist in Cork alone (and that is playing it safe) ..... also ...... [SIZE=1]and this point should accompany every other point i have made, am making and will make[/SIZE] If the league had a level playing field as regards balanced media coverage, funding, etc. and didn't have to deal with the apathy and low self esteem of the nations pride then it wouldn't ever be a numbers game [SIZE=1]and i am not saying it should be, you, ... by you bringing it up, you are saying that[/SIZE]
Jebus ... that is very easy to say and also very illegal on RTEs behalf.Tv figures, eh rte probably made them up to flog advertising for matches advertisers didnt want to pay for.
Aside for the fact that the licence fee payer is totally entitled to know exactly what is going on, the National Broadcaster (also being allowed to advertise) is allowed to take a licence fee from that National so the nation should be informed/shown what the fúck is going on every week
That is a argument for another day ..... the fact that i think RTE are the scum of the earth should not come into this one.
Also ... i really dont think they would lie to that degree, why would the say ManU gets 150000 viewers and Shels v Bohs 210000 .... Why ?? No logic to that. I'd have to agree with figures to be honest (i have been doing a bit of homework for an article ... alot to do still, but i have spoken with Dutch, Belgian, Swedish etc. TV and compared numbers and they seem right) with what i know so far.
I dunno ... ask any club that is down there, and ask they people just above them with two points ibn the difference. Listen ..... do you know when i mentioned "selective" earlier on .... this is partly what i am saying. Sometimes, and i agree not always .... sometimes the selection is not always correct. The play off in the last few years for teams going up and down has been a great competition and a huge plus point for fans, neutral and vested interest alike. It is brilliant to watch .... you selection procedure/method/whatever the fúck obmits this .... and the fans would lose out !!*"TIP: Just to let you know ..... not matter what league you go to, where ever in the world, in every single sport ... there will always be a team at the the bottom and probably breaking even. " Point is its not feckin newsworthy, get over it.
I actually think that you might not be getting what i am saying at this stage .... i, when reading about a team at the bottom of the league or the top of the one below, dont really care how much points they have mathematically ... it is the dog fight kinda battle that they are involved in that interests me ... it is the character they show. There is no formula to this ... you cant guage it by points or the financial target they must get to to break even, it is just the story behind it .... ok look ... forget that point so. i give up, you win
Positive points are not interesting .... again ... read the FÚCKING title of the page .... do you know what i am trying to say to you ..... i am trying to tell you that positives are good news stories and are the stories that alot of people want to read about .... i am saying that normal people by and large want to read about good stuff too, no matter what the topic. Not all people are pesimistic and prey on bad news. This is the whole crux of the debate for me to be honest ... if you dont understand this .... all my effort is wasted. Let me know you opinion on this please ... for gods sake !!*positives are there thats my point, but they are not interesting. A positive news story = Nick Leeson, negative = €2.3m debt, and the harps example (apologies to harpers) is just not newsworthy.That is balanced like it or not.
Again ... wrong .... and i just cant accept that ..... at all.* OK there are some positive stories but the majority of the news from our league worth reporting on is bad news.
You are wrong .... wrong ..... wrong ....!!
Being a Rovers fans (i think that what you said) obviously things aren't rosey right now .... .but the 400 club and Rovers fans in gerneral would put most to shame ... their loyality and faith, and positivity is unmeasured and uncompared. How you cant see a plus point there clearly questions you eyesight !!
That .... again is two points and they contradict each other. Media dont have to promote the league .... fair enough, point taken ... just report the facts, nice one.*its not the paper/ media/ journalists job to promote the league, they report it as it is in response to what will sell papers.
But to then ...... in response to what you claim, sells papers ... fabricate, and mould lies and tell half truths and play on peoples ignorance about the league, just to sell papers is not fair at all.
To deflect responsiblity for promoting the league on one hand and then on the other, engineer ways to sell papers for short term gain on the other hand is just despicable !! Can you see now what i am saying ...... unbalanced.
I am sorry ... your argument is all over the place here ..... but i will say the licencing process does have alot of visable benefits that the average punter of the eL league would find hard to not notice.* A real licence, ok try this for starters, a licence with specified legal requirements, not loose aspirations that can be taken apart in court. Specific sanctions and degrees of sanction that are binding when the licence committee makes it decision on a club that fails to meet criteria. Whats wrong with the current licence is that it was a project by 3rd class kids on what they thought SHOULD be done but theres no way of implementig it at all. For example, Rovers meet more of the general requirements now than before the examinership started yet the FAI wont be able to apply any specific penalty as its open to judicial review. Jokeshop. (though as a rovers fan I'm quite happy about this point). Uefa issue guidelines, its the FAI who did up the document, I've read it, it is a mess, there are so many ways around it that if it was put on the mad cow roundabout there'd be no traffic problems anywhere in Dublin.
Fair enough there might be flaws (i honestly cant comment, especially on the legal side of things) but the FAI have taken on board the implementing of this very timely ... one of the first leagues to do so and they have make ongoing changes where need be all along the way.
Also ... the whole process anyway ..... is always going ot be an ongoing thing. Not every club will make the grade (literally half of europe wont right now) but at least they are getting on with it.
As i said earlier ..... i totally agree ....and most definitely i understand that the league has a long long way to go, and i am not making light of it at all.*Facilities, ok here's a reply. ANY club could handily enough raise €500k with a bit of a push and a proper plan with the fans. That allows dept of sport funding of a further €1.0m, now EVERY ground in the country could do with a new stand or a €1.5m upgrade. Do that and it will be easir to keep people coming. This is ASIDE from any scheme promised to the FAI that clubs are currently using as an excuse to do nothing.*
Also if you think i am blindly trying to defend the league and clubs, you are wrong ... not at all. I realise what has to be done, but i'd like to think i see it objectively, with an informed opinion. But i also see the potential the league has ..... i lived abroad for a long while and i saw the twon where i lived and all the towns around that had a great pride (and reason to be proud) for the clubs and the identity the achieved from it. Personality maybe … character most definitely .... why is that not good enough for the Irish ??
Last edited by A face; 08/05/2005 at 3:34 AM.
The SFAI are the governing body for grassroots football in Ireland, not the FAI. Its success or the lack of is all down to them.
Despite the popular saying,you won't put out a fire with fire.
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks