Negative Media

[bluemovie]

I'd like to see some football reporters hired who don't have ADT and can get more out of a game than goals.

Attention Deficit Tisorder??

The Star on Friday is the only proper coverage that I've seen. I actually look forward to getting it on Friday morning ahead of the game. Dolan's column is always a laugh and they do a reasonable preview of each game. Usually has a stats column as well giving 'longest since an away win' etc.

[Slash/ED]

Fair enough youve made some fair points but i still dont agree with you. While sky television has brought on a lot more interest in the English league that interest was always here. I like the majority of people in Ireland dont have Sky but still have a strong interest in English soccer. The hype on Sky does annoy me like it does most people.

People may not have Sky, but they are still exposed to this in a number of ways. Obviously, down the pub is one, and secondly the constant exposure to the British media be it Sky or not, and they're all at it in hypeing the bejaysus out of the elague. What it's done to attendences there is huge and often understated, attendences were on a downward spiral in the 80s, much like our own I suppose.

The main reason that people support Celtic is because it is some sort of Nationalist agenda and they think its like supporting Ireland.

But that's sort of my point. they support Celtic inspite of a sub standard quality of football on display because of the media exposure to Celtic. If there was the same exposure to domestic football they would support it inspite of the apparent lack of class because they're their own teams.

English soccer is always going to be more popular than italian because it is more exciting, it is next door and it has a lot of Irish players playing in it.

Exactly! Exciting, that's my bloody point. It's nothing to do with standard of play, and whatever you say about the EL, it's as exciting a league to follow as any, full of characters and great games (Watch RTE2 tonight at 8 if you don't believe me). It also contains some players who could easily go on to be the next Irish stars, look at the interest Murphy is getting from England and how he's done for the Irish U21s. It also contains internationals, albeit not mainstays of the team by any stretch of the imagination, and many many youth internationals. And it's not nextdoor, it's on their bloody doorstep.

I was probably wrong to say that a match in the gaa off-season could attract 20000 but what i meant was matches that dont matter in the greater scheme of things such as the Cork County hurling final 20000 and U21 finals which get 20000+.

That's a final, it's a big event, even at U21 level. You get event junkies in this country, and it happens domestically too. Take, for example, 22,000 at a Shels game last year and were it not for the capacity of Lansdowne Road you'd have doubled that, absolutley no doubt about it, if not more.

As for increases in attendances they are marginal and i think it is all pretty much swings and roundabouts. Shelbourne and Cork City might be increasing but Bohs and Pats are decreasing. Im a Galway United fan for the last 10 or 11 years and i have seen crowds of 6000- at Crowley Park and when the lights were put in Terryland- and i have also seen crowds of 200 the last time we were in the Premier.

Well as teams success goes down attendences goes down, that much is obvious. But Shels attendences are up a fair bit on last year, and we're hardly more successful than we were then, it was the media exposure that we enjoyed that was never heard of before during the build up to the Depor game and than the string of live games that followed that are responsible. You do that constantly, and you'll see results across the board and far more dramatic ones.

[bluemovie]

Well said, Slash. I'm a Premiership fan and watch football from Spain, Italy, Scotland and sometimes even France and Germany, but what can beat the excitement of actually being at games on a regular basis. There's a big difference in the feeling of being with your own supporters when your team score having shouted them on as opposed to being in your sitting room shouting from hundreds of miles away for a club that don't really need your support.

Non EL fans think that the gap between the Premiership and the EL is so wide that Jason Byrne, etc aren't fit to lace the boots of gods like Djimi Traore, Peter Crouch and Gary Doherty. Sunderland have just been promoted to the Premiership and their first bit of business is to try to sign Daryl Murphy. Mick McCarthy watched our game v UCD when Daryl was very quiet and saw enough in him to take him straight back over on trial. Sunderland aren't in a position to buy players just for the sake of it so Mick obviously thinks Murphy can compete for a place with Marcus Stewart, Stephen Elliott, Kevin Kyle, Brian Deane (!) and Chris Brown.

The players who have joined the league recently like Dominic Foley, Jason Gavin, Farrelly and Moore haven't been far above the standards already in the league. Shels and Cork showed last year that they can compete in one-off matches with good clubs. The gap isn't as wide as some people would make out.

[BohDiddley]

Attention Deficit Tisorder??

Good spot. Must've got distracted ...
Now, where was I?

[TonyD]

Slash/Ed is spot on. The argument that standard of play is why people don't support their local teams is the biggest red herring going. Sustained media attention (call it hype if you like) is what attracts people. Man U and Celtic can get dumped on every year in Europe by Italian and Spanish teams and it doesn't detract from their 'fanbase' in this country one iota. What really bugs me is that the papers and TV here don't see that there's something in it for them too if they promote the local game. If the game here can grow, with their help, then they have access to something that's unique and exclusive, they won't have to be serving up second hand helpings of something that Sky and the BBC have first call on, and getting their football writing direct from London. Then again, maybe that's the point we're missing. It's easier for the papers to get readymade copy from England, easier for RTE to get their pictures from England rather that actually having to bother getting off their @rses and sending their own cameras out.

[Ceirtlis]

Some things are unhypeable such as some of them Setanta Cup games. To say on telly that there is a big crowd at the games is just ridiculous such as the Glentoran and Longford game.
There is also things like when Jimmy Aggrey signed for Bohs he was called an "ex Chelsea star". True he may have been at Chelsea but he signed from TNS in Wales. Paddy McCourt is a "Northern Ireland International" true he played one game but he is not likely to get another game until he goes back to England.
The point about players that came back ie Foley,Moore etc they where hardly making waves the last places they were playing Moore couldnt get a look in at Burnley. Cork City have 2 key players who were let go by Peterboro United. Daryl Murphy may be going to Sunderland but he only signed from Waterford after being let go by Luton Town.
To finish all i am saying is any paper that covers the eircom league fairly ie the star, the sun, irish independant, the mirror, should give honest reports on matches i certainly would prefer it that way. A journalists job is to say it as they see it.

[harry crumb]

Cork City have 2 key players who were let go by Peterboro United. Daryl Murphy may be going to Sunderland but he only signed from Waterford after being let go by Luton Town.

Yes and when John O'Flynn came home he ended up playing for the Cork City 1st team and getting into the Irish u-21 set-up and was arguebly one of the best players in that team.

Peterborough were relegated at the weekend. Coincidence

[aido_b]

A journalists job is to say it as they see it.

Fair enough it is, but is it also their job to start giving out about crap attendances at matches when its partly their fault?As I said in the post that begun this thread I have not read one match report this season that mentioned the facilities available at the matches. Clubs have ploughed money into advertising for games and improving their facilities to make games more attractive to prospective fans, they may as well just give up now because whats the point in them doing all this work if its goes unnoticed?

[pete]

The point about players that came back ie Foley,Moore etc they where hardly making waves the last places they were playing Moore couldnt get a look in at Burnley.

We can all be selective - Foley had a few full irish international caps & was playing in the Portugese league & IMO is useless in the eL. I think Moore had been getting his game at burnley but in his last season was more bench player.

[soccerc]

Fair enough it is, but is it also their job to start giving out about crap attendances at matches when its partly their fault?As I said in the post that begun this thread I have not read one match report this season that mentioned the facilities available at the matches. Clubs have ploughed money into advertising for games and improving their facilities to make games more attractive to prospective fans, they may as well just give up now because whats the point in them doing all this work if its goes unnoticed?

There fault? Hardly.

Crap attendances are the fault of journalists? Not in any stretch of the imagination.

A match report is just that, a match report, not a lovely glossy coffee table article. Why would a match report comment on facilities that are at best poor. Couldn't care less how much they have improved they are still unacceptable to the majority of supporters.

A match report is a match report full stop.

Who are the clubs advertising to? The converted? The casual fan, the lapsed supporter or those who do not give a toss about domestic football? Maybe a more cohesive targeted campaign with specific aims would be more appropriate.

BTW, What clubs are you talking about.

Time to take off the rose tinted glasses.

[harry crumb]

This thread is not supposed to be about match reports, more, negative articles and headings.

[soccerc]

This thread is not supposed to be about match reports, more, negative articles and headings.

Harry I was replying to the originator of the thread who didn't keep it on topic

[hamish]

Some things are unhypeable such as some of them Setanta Cup games. To say on telly that there is a big crowd at the games is just ridiculous such as the Glentoran and Longford game.
There is also things like when Jimmy Aggrey signed for Bohs he was called an "ex Chelsea star". True he may have been at Chelsea but he signed from TNS in Wales. Paddy McCourt is a "Northern Ireland International" true he played one game but he is not likely to get another game until he goes back to England.
The point about players that came back ie Foley,Moore etc they where hardly making waves the last places they were playing Moore couldnt get a look in at Burnley. Cork City have 2 key players who were let go by Peterboro United. Daryl Murphy may be going to Sunderland but he only signed from Waterford after being let go by Luton Town.
To finish all i am saying is any paper that covers the eircom league fairly ie the star, the sun, irish independant, the mirror, should give honest reports on matches i certainly would prefer it that way. A journalists job is to say it as they see it.

Hard to disagree with you there, man but when I was Athlone PRO, I used to meet the likes of Gerry Thornley at matches - mostly Bohs v Town games in Dalyer and he was bored sihtless and always making snide remarks on LOI football. My point is that far too many journalists are not interested in local football from the get-go and just marking time till the Editor gives them their favourite sport to write on. That's why I'm somewhat suspicious when there's criticisms - is it anti-soccer bias/apathy? Exceptions like Paul Lenon, Malone, Fitzmaurice, Gabriel Egan - they seem to have areal feel for the game which makes their criticisms more valid. Maybe I'm just getting old and paranoid!

[Macy]

Mick McCarthy watched our game v UCD

That must be a first - McCarthy in an eL ground....

[bluemovie]

Daryl Murphy may be going to Sunderland but he only signed from Waterford after being let go by Luton Town.

Daryl Murphy was not 'let go' by Luton Town. He left as he was homesick despite making a very good impression at Luton. Yet again, someone presuming the worst.

[Anto McC]

John Paul Kelly of Bohs tipped to be one of the biggest liverpool stars in the future also left cause he was homesick and in five years when he's one of the best players in the league he will be regarded by sed journalists as a liverpool reject.Journalists like the those mentioned when giving match reports will always point out the negative side and very rearly point out the good side.

[Slash/ED]

Indeed, I've never seen a Spanish match report with "Athletico reject Raúl put Real one up" in it.

[Passive]

In fairness to Paul Hyland, he's written nothing but the truth in relation to our current problems. He's asked all the right questions about how our board was running Rovers. Hyland has basically been a 400 Club spokesman for the past few weeks!

As for Dave Kelly, don't get me started. This is the guy who in his end of season round-up claimed that the league gets too much media coverage. That's the equivilant of me saying to my boss, "listen, my job is actually pointless, could you please fire me?" He's a Pat's fan but he never has anything good to say about the league. I've been at really entertaining games and you read Kelly's match report and he basically says the game was rubbish, we'd all have been better off in the pub. Thankfully, the Indo seem to have moved him to rugby.

The tabloid writers are the best. I like Gerry McDermott too, he's never that full of enthusiasm but at least he's balanced.

[A face]

It think some journos are some way responsible for this aswell ....

The problem with Irish people is that they are convinced that football is one big aesthetic spectacle and they forget the underlying social dynamics that people in the stadium come to love. This is simply because they rarely if ever go to games and when they do they tend to be one-offs, internationals, trips to England, whatever. The outcome is that they have this expectation of what football is all about which jars with the reality of people who are at games week in, week out. As such the idea of loving fast flowing, fast passing, dribbling, look Mum no hands football is all the rage in Ireland. But this is what happens when TV selects the best game to show, then normally they see the highlights and forget that while, as Brian Clough used to say, 'it only takes a second to score a goal', it takes 89 minutes and 59 seconds to do everything else. Whilst Real and Barce are playing beautiful football in Spain, what about Malaga versus Albacete? That's football too and whilst not very interesting for the likes of yourself is really just as important as every other Spanish league game.

For the vast majority of football fans, the quality of the football is besides the point. Most teams have cycles and rarely dominate over the long-term (unless its Celtic and Rangers and that's even more boring) so over the course of supporting a team, you eventually see them play bad football in some armpit of the country, desperately defending to earn a 0-0 draw, whilst it is raining and freezing cold. It isn't the football that keeps the fans warm, it is the love of being there. Then when your team does produce great football and achieves at the highest level, it is a glorious feeling that the people there will remember for the rest of their lives.

So yes football is being raped but not by negative tactics of Greece and co. but by the armchair brigade, the prawn sandwichers and the band wagoners who drive (or are driven by) the BSKYB agenda of football where it is all transcendent, all of the time. Well it isn't about that, its about being part of a club and a community of people with shared values and dreams, its about going to football matches on your wife's birthday, its about telling all your house guests to be quiet whilst you listen to the results on the radio, its about booting down motorways in a foul temper because you are about to miss the first five minutes of the game which is a mid-table clash, its about blowing all your money on traveling to games.

We believe in all this bóllox that we are the best supporters in the world - let me tell you a truth - we are the worst. Why did Ireland exceed other countries in looking for World Cup match tickets? Because football supporters in other countries spend all their money to games week in, week out - traveling up and down their country watching bad football games but loving every second of it whilst we sit here and sneer at our own game which incidentally is getting better all the time despite the smug eliteness of the Anglophones who live in our little island.

So all of you Anglophones who are so worried about the state of English football and to a lesser extent the upper echelons of the Champions League participants, please remember that Cork City are playing St Patricks Ath. this Friday. It will no doubt be a bad football game in the aesthetic spectacle idea that impresses you all but in the wider existence of football for those clued in to the spirit of supporting games, it is what the weekend is all about.

[monutdfc]

Des Cahill led with Shamrock Rovers this morning..."more trouble for Shamrock Rovers blah blah blah" - if he had any knowledge of the game he'd know Maguire going was a good thing. The only time he ever gives prominence to the eL it's with bad news stories. Then he gives blow by blow accounts of games he watched on TV the night before.