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Thread: League of Ireland in Europe 2019

  1. #1681
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    I’m not sure that it’s all down to the Dundalk players either. It’s as much to do with management and coaching. Perth may turn out to be an inspired appointment, but right now he’s relatively inexperienced domestically and very much so in Europe. Kenny had managed so many Euro games (more importantly, so many in single seasons) as well as what he learned in Scotland before managing Dundalk that he reached a level few managers here do. Part of our problem is that we keep appointing the same managers over and over and, being inexperienced in Euro games, some end up - I don’t know - not trusting themselves? Being risk averse?
    All very valid comment! I thnk that partially happened at least. When we had no choice but to chase a result especially at home to Qarabag i dont think that its a coincidence that that was the best 45 minutes of any of the games. Im sure the coaches would say that in the away leg in Baku it was game management - keep it tight knowing that Qarabag fade in the last quarter. It was probably the sensible approach but in hindsight an the way the game ended up maybe the right tactic was to take the game to them rather than fear being carved open. Away in Slovan I still feel was a lost opportunity and that they were vulberable enough to be more adventerous. I also thought we played each game as too much seperate rather than seeing opposition as more or less the same over 180mins. Previous years, home or away, tactics were very similar with trying to play on the front foot regardless. I actually think the Larnaca experience has lingered more than it should, as much with Perth as the players. Kenny would have been more steadfast in his belief and set up as he always did, to a fault even. But that is the sort of thing a manager gains with experience if its learnt from. Fenlon is an example of a coach, especially in Europe, that stuck to the defensive methodolgy and nick something, and never evolved in that regard over his coaching career.

    For those interested here are highlights of the Linfield v Qarabag game this week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi74J-5H1Nk

    Just watched the highlights myself and a couple of observations. It was workman like by Linfield. First goal the defender should probably have done better and not let the attacker outmuscle him to goalside. Absolue sitter missed by Qarabag hitting the post from 6yds totally unmarked. Set pieces are essential and resulted in two Linfield goals. Qarabag didnt enjoy the spell before half time when Linfield's tails were up. Hatfull of good half chances for Qarabag and like the Dundalk it was looking ominous early on. We have spoken about the need to be more clinical with chances and Lavery's goal was a prime example of super point man play - pressuring the defender, turning him, nicking the ball and then camly cut inside and curled the ball inside the far post. Hery looked to me the main man indeed, comfortable on the ball and kept possession in tight spots well. It emphasises the loss that Benson was in being our main player for that and how key an O'Donnell type player is in central mid, calmness personified under pressure. Hery being dragged down around the neck from behind while not a red card was very cynical and if in rugby the Qarabag player would have been sinbinned. It wasnt a big surprise that the pace at with Qarabag were driving in to the box that a penalty was on the cards especially when they were looking for one - referee looked very good in that regard. Another sitter against the post and some good chances spurned by the away side or the complexion of the game would have been very different.

    Linfield have a lot to do still, do they stick and sit in and look to a set piece away goal? If they try to push on they could be heavily punished and and Qarabag levelling the tie and it curtains!

    Dundalk need to get back to getting goals from set pieces - Duffy has been shocking considering and those high looped balls to the back post at corners is pure waste. Murray and Flores are far better at delivering a set piece and I think it was a Murray corner that resulted in the goal in Oriel.

    Super result for Linfield but generally looking at the highlights the things ye hope go your way on Euro nights did for Linfield. 2016 we werent so reliant on getting a slice of luck, time to get back to creating our own luck for the remainder of this season in all comps and improve performances in Europe next season.

    A small observation - at half time v Slovan in Tallaght the Dundalk subs were just pinging shots on goal. I had thought those days had gone as under Kenny at HT subs were doing small drills with one of the coaches rather than teeing up shots. Small detail but its attention to detail that's necessary!!
    Last edited by Nesta99; 23/08/2019 at 5:54 PM.

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  3. #1682
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swinfordfc View Post
    Linfield win last night shows that Dundalk performances in Europe this year to be poor ... It was like their were scare of the opposition and not go out and play their own game. Is the league of Ireland going backwards?
    dont forget the influence of Pat Fenlon as general manager with Linfield has made a huge difference to them!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    No, it should be acknowledged that he has made an impact with improving things at both Waterford and now Linfield in roles as GM/footballing consultant!

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    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    No, it should be acknowledged that he has made an impact with improving things at both Waterford and now Linfield in roles as GM/footballing consultant!
    There was an interview with him on one of the loi podcasts last night and the experience of running businesses when he was playing ie he had a laundry business seems to suit his skillset!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    dont forget the influence of Pat Fenlon as general manager with Linfield has made a huge difference to them!
    In what way ?

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    I'd say it was getting them to prepare as best as possible for Europe, something not done previously with any real intent. Earlier start to preseason and a warm weather camp. They werent quite Crusaders with their indifference to Europe obviously. They also now recruit players to fit a team rather than just flex the relative financial muscle to try and hoover up the best of the previous season's IL team of the year.

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    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    In what way ?
    He spent three fruitful years with Linfield in early 90s. He was a very much a fans favourite. He would have worked with a lot of that committee before and obviously he has strong business experience from the time he ran his business whilst playing in the league of ireland/NI league. He went into detail on this on RTE Game on podcast on wednesday night!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I'd say it was getting them to prepare as best as possible for Europe, something not done previously with any real intent. Earlier start to preseason and a warm weather camp. They werent quite Crusaders with their indifference to Europe obviously. They also now recruit players to fit a team rather than just flex the relative financial muscle to try and hoover up the best of the previous season's IL team of the year.
    fair play to you Nesta you explained it better than I would so I rest my case!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    DFC owners have a simple choice really, maintain current quality of squad, and that will return 2 rounds, 3 max in Europe, or invest big, and that would mean at least 3-4 players prob from outside Ireland to have a chance v EL play off.

    Its widely accepted its costing P6 led ownership 1m a year for the current shortfall, this year Europe returned 1.2M, it would have gone to 1.5M for play off, then the potential to earn another 2m for EL group stage. Worth noting the 6.2m DFC earned in 2016 was due to extras from that seasons route plus one win and one draw bonus.

    Linfield result was excellent last week, the late penalty will prob kill them mind and the 5k travel and 30c heat will be challenging. Amazing recovery from them given they lost 6-0 on agg to Rosenborg in the CL r1. Their route to the game was fortunate and as ever a reminder that this has a huge impact (DFC started 2016 v FH from Iceland), still hard to know how Linfield drew a Faroes team, but there you go, luck of the draw is key.

    In summary the best performances from LOI this season were the two wins by Rovers, Dundalk with zero wins from 6 and 2 goals was really not good enough, not even close.
    Last edited by oriel; 24/08/2019 at 9:41 PM.
    #DundalkFC 4 titles in 5 years 2014/2015/2016/2018

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  13. #1690
    International Prospect Martinho II's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oriel View Post
    DFC owners have a simple choice really, maintain current quality of squad, and that will return 2 rounds, 3 max in Europe, or invest big, and that would mean at least 3-4 players prob from outside Ireland to have a chance v EL play off.

    Its widely accepted its costing P6 led ownership 1m a year for the current shortfall, this year Europe returned 1.2M, it would have gone to 1.5M for play off, then the potential to earn another 2m for EL group stage. Worth noting the 6.2m DFC earned in 2016 was due to extras from that seasons route plus one win and one draw bonus.

    Linfield result was excellent last week, the late penalty will prob kill them mind and the 5k travel and 30c heat will be challenging. Amazing recovery from them given they lost 6-0 on agg to Rosenborg in the CL r1. Their route to the game was fortunate and as ever a reminder that this has a huge impact (DFC started 2016 v FH from Iceland), still hard to know how Linfield drew a Faroes team, but there you go, luck of the draw is key.

    In summary the best performances from LOI this season were the two wins by Rovers, Dundalk with zero wins from 6 and 2 goals was really not good enough, not even close.
    had actually forgot that Dundalk hadnt won a game!
    Daire Doyles red and black army

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    Seasoned Pro El-Pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinho II View Post
    had actually forgot that Dundalk hadnt won a game!
    Most people probably also forget that Cork City actually did win a game in Europe this year. Not much to brag about given the opposition and the fact that we lost the tie though.

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    F91 Dudelange
    19:00
    Ararat-Armenia


    Does anyone know or how much football players get paid in Armenia? It's about the same as the national wage. Cork must be regretting that game looking at this(if they even knew). Armenia hold a 2-1 advantage

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    Ararat*

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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    F91 Dudelange
    19:00
    Ararat-Armenia


    Does anyone know or how much football players get paid in Armenia? It's about the same as the national wage. Cork must be regretting that game looking at this(if they even knew). Armenia hold a 2-1 advantage
    Cork didn't play Dudelange...

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    I presume it's general Luxemburg league connection that Paul meant.

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    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    They're all the same really.

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    They probably say the same about us.

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    First Team seand's Avatar
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    Dudelange (and Ararat) enjoyed the benefit of the Champions League route.... an extraordinary series of draws brought them together
    CL1:
    Saburtalo (GEO) unseeded beat Sheriff (MOL), a big surprise and a great win, granted
    Nomme Kalju (EST) unseeded beat Shkendija (MAC)
    Dudelange (LUX) seeded lost to Valletta (MAL)!!
    Ararat (ARM) unseeded lost to AIK (SWE)
    CL2:
    Nomme Kalju hammered by Celtic, Saburtalo hammered by Dinamo Zagreb
    EL2:
    Ararat beat LincolnRI (GIB), Dudelange beat Shkendija (MAC)
    EL3:
    Dudelange by Nomme Kalju, Ararat bt Saburtalo
    EL4: Dudelange v Ararat. 6 out of 8 EL4 ties are EL3 winners v CL3 losers, but there are a couple of EL3 winner v EL3 winner ties, this is one of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    I presume it's general Luxemburg league connection that Paul meant.
    Yes sorry I should have been clearer. Luxenbourg and armenia are actually close to eachother right? Anyway both a good few spots below Ireland.

    Fair point on the draw both had good draws alright. The EL3 winners v winners is interesting.

    I suppose it just re-enforces the point about getting lucky with the draw. ALthough when both Irish teams made it to the group stages the penultimate games were not lucky draws.
    Last edited by paul_oshea; 29/08/2019 at 10:24 AM.
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    One of the intriguing ties tonight in the Europa League is Ferencvaros vs Suduva. Suduva are 5/2 to qualify via Paddy Power. Tie poised delicately at 0-0. Decent price. Tough one for Linfield though. That second away goal, combined with Qarabag's realization that they need to wake up in the home leg, make it a difficult ask. Be nice to see both do it, as will be a historic first for both Lithuania and N.I.

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