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Thread: Belfast Celtic

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    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Belfast Celtic

    Could very possibly be a combination of WUM and wishful thinking, but reports that Belfast Celtic, due to come back into being in next season's IFL, might be considering an application to join the LOI instead: http://belfastmediagroup.com/belfast...reland-switch/

    Wouldn't be adverse: been ages since we had new blood in the league, excepting Cabinteely. But how likely is it really?
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

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    Reserves joey B's Avatar
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    I think it would be great,if they did it right and got good support what would be the negative?
    Away trip in Belfast would be brilliant,no harm to a team like Wexford but they had an attendance of 110 last weekend there can't be an appetite for League of Ireland football there,I think there would be in Belfast but maybe I'm completely wrong.

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    Seasoned Pro marinobohs's Avatar
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    It would be great to see them in LOI but very, very, unlikely. IFA would have to approve a team from their jurisdiction playing in a 'foreign' league and that's extremely unlikely (Derry was a different set of circumstances). I would imagine (given the joint venture with IFA) that the FAI would not want to upset anyone by being seen to assist any such application.And finally, I imagine the PSNI wouldn't welcome a weekly/forthnightly visit by fans from down South.
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    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    But if this Belfast Celtic is technically a "new" entity, would that make it more likely? Given that they would not have a pre-existing membership of the IFL? But I suppose the northern FA must have some say in any new footballing club that suddenly appears in their territory.
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    A good quality Belfast Celtic in the LOI would be a very welcome addition, and a step closer to an all Ireland league. Considering the strength of the club they're effectively taking over though would they really be much of an addition without major improvement? Their current ground is really just a pitch nothing else too so even if they could attract good crowds they'd need to improve that significantly. The only thing they really have going for them at the minute that might help them is their name and a huge potential catchment area which isn't really much. I also wouldn't like them to come in at the expense of another club so really you'd need another team to come in with them which at he moment seems unlikely.

    So a nice idea but not practical without them doing a huge amount of work.

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    Just boot UCD out, bottom team goes into playoff and and extra team comes up, problem solved.

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    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    The FAI would cobble something together to make it even numbers. A B team, a county rep side, some other junior club willing to throw an amateur senior side in.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

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    If they could get public interest and the area genuinely associates the club wit the old Belfast Celtic then it would be great. Aren't Donegal Celtic supposed to be descendants of the old club? They don't really seem to have a strong support.

    If (and obviously it's a big if) they do play LOI does that eventually lead to Cliftonville considering where they want to play? Could start a very odd conversation.

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    As I understand it, the current Derry City are a separate legal entity to the original entity which was wound up in 2009. Did this new entity have to jump through hoops with the IFA? Obviously it would have been madness for the IFA to have blocked the new Derry City but if they didn't have to seek cursory approval then that's precedent for a new Belfast Celtic entity not needing IFA approval.
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    They could probably try and blag some case under GFA terms with UEFA (and maybe the Derry precedent) but still far too contentious to be a realistic proposal. IFA would block it unless maaaybe something was agreed on not calling up former NI underage internationals for the senior RoI team. But its all clutching at straws. Its a nice idea that it could happen and not be an issue for IL football or be a security concern. Newry City toyed with the idea of applying to the LoI when they reformed but got no traction, though there was an element of them trying to parachute the new club straight in to senior football. Didnt work either way. There are plenty of Newry fans that believe that ther crowds would be higher playing the likes of Dundalk and Derry than Larne, Linfield and co. Warrenpoint is just too small a catchment to generate a proper local derby even if they have been faring better these days. Tidy ground in Newry and would also have been a good addition to LoI- a little off topic obviously :P

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    Seasoned Pro marinobohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fionnsci View Post
    As I understand it, the current Derry City are a separate legal entity to the original entity which was wound up in 2009. Did this new entity have to jump through hoops with the IFA? Obviously it would have been madness for the IFA to have blocked the new Derry City but if they didn't have to seek cursory approval then that's precedent for a new Belfast Celtic entity not needing IFA approval.
    I think the IFA would have to approve any club in its jurisdiction playing in another league - new or old. Derry was different in that there was major security concerns about the Brandywell at the time and once they had agreed to them going to LOI they wee never likely to retract although I believe thee was an offer to return to IL ?).
    a club (new or old) in the middle of Belfast is a distinctly different issue and I doubt the IFA would risk their power base by allowing clubs opt for the LOI. it is extremely unlikely the EUFA/FIFA would recognize a move without IFA approval.

    Much as I would like to see his happen, I don't believe it likely anytime soon.
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    I think Clifftonville and possibly other clubs would be against it as well , Belfast Celtic would have potential to be a big drain on sponsors , potential future fans and profile.
    Nothing like the status quo to prevent a new idea from rocking all over our little corner of the world

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    I cant see it happening but if it did come to pass and Belfast Celtic joined the LoI it would be fantastic news.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    Nothing like the status quo to prevent a new idea from rocking all over our little corner of the world
    I see what you did there. And approve.

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    The context is key in all of this.

    Firstly -this is NOT Belfast Celtic coming back. It's an existing club (Sport and Leisure Swifts), who aren't even the most popular intermediate team in West Belfast, seeking tio change name in an attempt to cash-in on Belfast Celtic's history. There is no reason to assume it will succeed just because they've stolen someone else's name.

    Secondly - they're coincidentally only suggesting switching to the LOI now that they're aboiut to be relegated out of the 3rd tier of the Irish League and into a district league based in Ballymena. So they're not a very good team, and don't seem keen to take their oil re a relegation.

    Thirdly - you have to question the wisdom of any club which takes a look at the huge administrative sh!tshow that football n the Republic is at the moment and says to themselves 'We should get ourselves some of that' !

    Whether or not they would be allowed to switch leagues is the big question. The IFA wouldn't agree with it (why would they). But there is established legal precedent under EU law which says that a club playing in one jurisdiction can't be prevented from plying its trade in another, so long as that other jurisdiction agrees and has accepted them in under its usual rules. Which for the LOI would be easy, as there's no pyramid and no established process for joining anyway. Except for licensing that is, which is something Sport and Leisure Swifts' rubbish facilities could well fall short on. However - they may find that the IFA tried to block any such move anyway, which would necessitate legal action to address. And with the UK allegedly due to leave the EU at some point in the next 6mths or so (or possibly not), even if the IFA thought they couldn't stop them it would be worth trying to slow the process down until the UK has left the EU. But as the UK will adopt all existing EU laws on leaving, and then begin to unpick them afterwards, that startegy probably wouldn't work either tbh.

    So that aside, the biggest barrier I can see is that the LOI is run by the FAI, and they have their hands full with other existential issues at the moment. Would they really want to trigger the ire of the IFA by accepting a crappy little club in a non-border area (i.e. opening up potential problems down the line re future civil unrest) with rubbish facilities and limited revenue or appeal into their league ? In the knowledge that it would probably trigger a messy legal challenge for the club ? Why would they want that sh!t on top of everything else they have going on at the moment ?

    So if I was a betting man, I'd say the odds are against this happening. Though in this crazy league, you never know.
    Last edited by EatYerGreens; 12/04/2019 at 12:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    I think Clifftonville and possibly other clubs would be against it as well , Belfast Celtic would have potential to be a big drain on sponsors , potential future fans and profile.
    Nothing like the status quo to prevent a new idea from rocking all over our little corner of the world
    That would be an argument for a closed shop in football. Which - given the extended pyramid nature of football in the north - is something they've structurally moved away from.

    Though why is everyone assuming that just sticking the name 'Belfast Celtic' onto a shirt worn by 11 players will magically change the world for that club ?

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    Seasoned Pro outspoken's Avatar
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    I can see why they'd want to move as they are basically being relegated to Sunday league level but would a move to the FD actually do anything other than financially cripple the club? Travel expenses alone would be ridiculous, you'd image they'd have to try and attract a half decent level of player to the club to compete and realistically how big would the away gates be for then in the FD? Might get a few from the big clubs when the novelty is fresh but hosting the likes of Wexford, Galway etc? League entry fees, licensing requirements, it will never happen

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    The context is key in all of this.

    Firstly -this is NOT Belfast Celtic coming back. It's an existing club (Sport and Leisure Swifts), who aren't even the most popular intermediate team in West Belfast, seeking tio change name in an attempt to cash-in on Belfast Celtic's history. There is no reason to assume it will succeed just because they've stolen someone else's name.

    Secondly - they're coincidentally only suggesting switching to the LOI now that they're aboiut to be relegated out of the 3rd tier of the Irish League and into a district league based in Ballymena. So they're not a very good team, and don't seem keen to take their oil re a relegation.

    Thirdly - you have to question the wisdom of any club which takes a look at the huge administrative sh!tshow that football n the Republic is at the moment and says to themselves 'We should get ourselves some of that' !

    Whether or not they would be allowed to switch leagues is the big question. The IFA wouldn't agree with it (why would they). But there is established legal precedent under EU law which says that a club playing in one jurisdiction can't be prevented from plying its trade in another, so long as that other jurisdiction agrees and has accepted them in under its usual rules. Which for the LOI would be easy, as there's no pyramid and no established process for joining anyway. Except for licensing that is, which is something Sport and Leisure Swifts' rubbish facilities could well fall short on. However - they may find that the IFA tried to block any such move anyway, which would necessitate legal action to address. And with the UK allegedly due to leave the EU at some point in the next 6mths or so (or possibly not), even if the IFA thought they couldn't stop them it would be worth trying to slow the process down until the UK has left the EU. But as the UK will adopt all existing EU laws on leaving, and then begin to unpick them afterwards, that startegy probably wouldn't work either tbh.

    So that aside, the biggest barrier I can see is that the LOI is run by the FAI, and they have their hands full with other existential issues at the moment. Would they really want to trigger the ire of the IFA by accepting a crappy little club in a non-border area (i.e. opening up potential problems down the line re future civil unrest) with rubbish facilities and limited revenue or appeal into their league ? In the knowledge that it would probably trigger a messy legal challenge for the club ? Why would they want that sh!t on top of everything else they have going on at the moment ?

    So if I was a betting man, I'd say the odds are against this happening. Though in this crazy league, you never know.
    when you put it as succinctly as that it begins to look like something the FAI WOULD pursue.
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    Complete bs,a story generated by a journo with time on hand.

    I also go to a lot of Newry games.
    Newry never wanted to join the LOI.That story again made-up by a lazy journalist.

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    A “Belfast Celtic” entity definitely has the potential to drum up interest but it would have to be something that families of players/supporters linked to the old club are part of. It would need financial backing. It would have to be something that builds anticipation and momentum pre-launch. More or less it would have to look at how MLS launches teams. A smaller scale obviously but the same principal. Probably harder to do in the IL if they have a proper pyramid structure.

    I only heard of this venture yesterday but it seems as though this “Belfast Celtic” stand very little chance of feeling like any version of the old club. Which is a massive pity.

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