I tend to assume the spectacular shot stopping boosted his reputation, but that there was fire to that smoke: there was a reason the bigger clubs never came for him.
Man City did sign him right after the money came into the club, but he had passed his peak at that stage.
Read his autobiography during the first lockdown, interesting read
Any highlights?Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I don't really agree here. [Edit: I re-read your post, and see now what you were saying, and I do agree!]
Goalkeepers' distribution has definitely become more important to how teams play but when Shay was at his peak Wenger bought flops like Wright, Shaban, Almunia. I just don't think Wenger had a good eye for a goalkeeper - it's that simple! After his initial successful spell when he integrated an established core with predominantly French young talent (which he had a head start over his peers in identifying) his transfer decisions were frequently poor. He was constrained by budget but at the same time he bought poor players and bought players with poor attitudes, or indulged players with poor attitudes already there. I remember arguing here that Kevin Doyle would have been an ideal signing for Arsenal, a step above Niklas Bendtner in terms of both ability and character but Wenger just kept indulging Bendtner. Then Nasri after that, and countless others. So in short, I think Wenger had his blindspots and tried to be cute in the market far too often, when in my opinion the players and personalities Arsenal needed at key times were hiding in plain sight - and were sometimes Irish. I think Richie Dunne could have had a good 2-3 years at Arsenal too, when Arsenal really had some iffy centre backs.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 31/05/2022 at 10:00 AM.
As an Arsenal fan for years, I'd have to concur with that. Loved the good times Wenger brought, but if you step back and analyse his whole contribution over the 20 years or so, he inherited a very strong back four.. and made them even better by convincing them to come off the sauce... identified brilliant, and cheap young French players like Viera, Anelka, Petit, Pires, Henry, Wiltord, who backboned a WC & EC winning side... but beyond 2006, when they were unlucky not to win the CL, he was never able to compete in the transfer market again.. with the stadium repayments, and then first Chelsea, then City raking in the State millions
But back to Collins.. still think he'd make a great centre half for Arsenal
There was definitely some parts to Shay Given’s game that the big clubs did Not fancy.
Big clubs will wait another couple of years once the price tag has probably tripled before looking at him most likely and thinking he's a decent player that lad. United wouldn't even spend the measly 12 to 15m for him even though CB is a position of concern for them for years now.
You probably wouldn’t want him learning from Man Utd’s centre backs ~ ~ Probably better to keep him away from them ! !
the common line at the time was that he was seen, rightly or wrongly, as just too short to be a keeper at a "top" club. He never really let us down during his prime years possibly with the exception of declaring himself fit for Euro 2012 when he really wasn't and then playing pretty disastrously.
I read all the time about these super talent spotters but really Liverpool are the stand outs of the big clubs. They get far more right than wrong whereas others seem to get more wrong than right, but at the same time I think Klopp has a good habit of improving players. VVD was a stand out at Celtic and was overlooked by Wenger. Instead he went to Southampton. Leicester seem to recruit well.
It was a bit strange that one of the Big Clubs did Not take a chance on him all the same. I reckon Newcastle would not have been all that hard to tempt with Harper as back up. It’s not as if a big club couldn’t have taken a chance on him for a season or two. They obviously didn’t think he was worth the gamble ! !
I agree with you. I think he was a fantastic keeper and worthy of a bigger platform than what he enjoyed at Newcastle (where, on the flip side, he is a bona fide club legend). But if you consider ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool to be the big clubs during his time with Newcastle, he would have faced some stiff competition (Lehman, Cech, Van de Sar off the top of my head). Not bad being considered best of the rest.
Shay played in an FA Cup final and 61 times in Europe for Newcastle. I'm not sure how much of a bigger platform he was going to get. Newcastle in his peak were in and around the top 5 for a few years.
I could be wrong but I thought Burnley paid around 15 Million for him from Stoke. I suspect they'll be looking for 25 -30 million now
Think it was 12m with add ons that could bring it to 15m. Hopefully he has a relegation clause Maxwel Cornet in his contract and stops Burnley from pricing him out of any move if one was to happen.
But also Almunia, Tim Howard, Taibi, and Dudek among many others. Some decent, some awful.
Yeah, with the exception of Dudek though who was good and bad in equal parts, most of them didn’t last very long at their respective clubs and were quickly replaced with better. If your point is that he’d have done better than those you listed, then I’d agree.
For the most part, he was in competition with some of the best talent around to earn a move and starting spot with one of the top 4 back in the late 90’s/00’s. It was a tough spot and he was best of the rest really. Nothing to be sniffed at.
Given definitely had his weaknesses and looking back at it I can see why none of the big hitters ever went in for him. Firstly he was not a commanding keeper in terms of crosses, corners etc., Secondly he was not great with the ball at his feet, thirdly some of his wonder saves were simply a case of him making up for his lack of height, I often thought a 6 foot 3 or 6 foot 4 keeper would have made many of those saves with a lot less fuss but Given had a habit of making them look like world class saves because he was small for a keeper.
Put all that together and I think there were too many flaws for him ever to get a bigger move than he got. An excellent premier league standard keeper, no question, but not someone who was good enough to get a move to a Chelsea or Arsenal or whoever as a starter.
I doubt collins is going anywhere. Mee is gone now as well. burnley may need to balance the books but some of their wage issues are walking out the door. Collins and Long are their main CB pairing now which maybe is fine for the Championship... I Can't see them cashing in on collins if they have any aspirations of going back to the PL in the next 2 years.
We have a great habit on here of over estimating young players sometimes. Im often more guilty of it than most....Thinking Aaron Connolly was going to be the next Aguero was probably my worst ever take! But now I think the opposite might be happening with 2 of our young players, Bazunu and Collins.
I'll be absolutely shocked if someone doesn't snap up Collins. At 30 Million he would be a steal. The fact that at 20, with only 19 games in the Premiership all season, he got a nomination for player of the month. This is a lad with no experience, that we are always told is vital for a center half. He's huge, was mobile enough to play full back for a time at Stoke, was also captain of Stoke at the age of 18 which shows his leadership and hes also good on the ball.
I genuinely believe that barring injuries he will be 100% be a world class center half in the coming years. I wouldnt be shocked to see someone like Dortmund take him with their record of signing young players, but if hes playing in the Championship next season I think it is major scouting f'up by a lot of clubs.
Posting Permissions
Quote
Bookmarks