Heysel Stadium Disaster

[anto1208]

[QUOTE=Nempton]Thats a very childish thing to say. In another thread about hooliganism you got into an argument about who was worst, English or Italian fans. Which fans are the worst is a pointless argument because hooliganism in any form or level is unacceptable, it doesn't matter who is the worst but what does matter is the efforts being made to stamp it out. In regards to Heysel to say who started it, who retaliated is irrelevant. There were a number of factors that contributed to the disaster and accepting responsibility for Heysel is not something that should be avoided by those involved.
QUOTE]

childish it may be but who started it is very important considering it was thought liverpool fans started it and this got english clubs unfairly banned and set back 10 years behind other european clubs and are only barely catching up now .

for years liverpool fans have been branded murderers and scum because they "rushed " a section of juve fans , but the fact that they were only trying to help there mates puts a different spin on things .

maybe if you were a liverpool fan and had to put up with the stigma attached to being a liverpool fan you would under stand a bit better

[anto eile]

it was interesting,but still a rubbish programme.
a: liverpool players are hypocrites,they should be ashamed of themselves for playing.they knoew people had died but played on.tries to scapegoat uefa for making them play.rubbish.have they no minds of their own?

b: phil neal is a cvnt. anyone see him refusing to comment on heysel for anewspaper last week until he got paid?

c: players said they didnt protest at the peno and just wanted the game over..while they showed a clip of the liverpool players surrounding the ref appealing for a peno?liers

d: platini celbrating like mad after scoring.shame.juve players celebrating crazily after winning the cup.another shameful show

e: the programme made the new premiership seem like a happy family friendly happy clappy day out.ignoring the fact that it has become so far removed via money and commercialism from the real fans.also it ignored the fact that there is hooliganism at nearly all english league games.it hasnt gone away,its as bad as ever.just doesnt get reported
anyway,crap programme

[anto eile]

Thankfully things have improved and hopefully we'll never see its like again.

improved where?football violence happens all the time,including england.people will continue to die as result

[Babysis]

improved where?football violence happens all the time,including england.people will continue to die as result

To the same extent?? what Where the police are overwhelemed and innocent fans get suffocated to death against a wall?? Im sorry, but ive not seen that. Yes football has been removed from the "Real fans" and yes alot if it is due to money and commercailism, TV rights etc. but footy nowadays is much more accesible and much safer. I agree with Razor, things have improved and things are better.

[Dotsy]

it was interesting,but still a rubbish programme.
a: liverpool players are hypocrites,they should be ashamed of themselves for playing.they knoew people had died but played on.tries to scapegoat uefa for making them play.rubbish.have they no minds of their own?

b: phil neal is a cvnt. anyone see him refusing to comment on heysel for anewspaper last week until he got paid?

c: players said they didnt protest at the peno and just wanted the game over..while they showed a clip of the liverpool players surrounding the ref appealing for a peno?liers

d: platini celbrating like mad after scoring.shame.juve players celebrating crazily after winning the cup.another shameful show

e: the programme made the new premiership seem like a happy family friendly happy clappy day out.ignoring the fact that it has become so far removed via money and commercialism from the real fans.also it ignored the fact that there is hooliganism at nearly all english league games.it hasnt gone away,its as bad as ever.just doesnt get reported
anyway,crap programme

Don't agree it was a rubbish programme. It put what happened in a wider prospective and while not ignoring the appalling behaviour of some Liverpool fans it gave a good account of the bad judgement and decisions of others involved on the night. Whether the players should have played is obviously a matter for debate. Personally I agree with you that they shouldn't but that's with hindsight. There seems to have been a genuine fear that things would have gotten worse if the game hadn't been played. I certainly don't think there is an excuse for the way the players from both sides reacted to the penalty and goal during the game. No argument about Phil Neal. He has shown himself to be an idiot plenty of times not least when he was the assistant to Taylor in the England job.

There is certainly violence still in the game but it certainly has improved in England at least since the 1980's. I think the change is largely thorugh better policing of games and fans. The main improvemnet that came out of Heysel and Hillsborough IMO was the improvement in stadium infratsructure making them safer for fans.

[anto1208]

e: the programme made the new premiership seem like a happy family friendly happy clappy day out.ignoring the fact that it has become so far removed via money and commercialism from the real fans.also it ignored the fact that there is hooliganism at nearly all english league games.it hasnt gone away,its as bad as ever.just doesnt get reported
anyway,crap programme

rubbish that money and commercialism only affects utd . 99% of fans with season tickets are real fans .
there is very little trouble at games in england now , you would get the same here if clubs had 40,000 turning up every week .
it doesnt get reported the same way the trouble irish fans get into doesnt get reported

[razor]

improved where?football violence happens all the time,including england.people will continue to die as result

The authorities in England have made it safer for people to go to games, the stadiums are better and all areas of the grounds are monitored by CCTV.
The police intelligence in the UK is second to none.
Violence still exists of course but not anywhere near the stadium it doesn't, and this in itself will reduce the chances of innocent people getting hurt or killed, let the hoolligans beat 7 shades of sh*t out of each other somehwere else and leave the football to the fans.

[mypost]

[QUOTE=anto1208]

it was thought liverpool fans started it and this got english clubs unfairly banned and set back 10 years behind other european clubs and are only barely catching up now.

The reason English clubs were banned from Europe wasn't directly because of Heysel, but because as a result of 10-15 years of hooliganism by fans of many English clubs when they played in Europe. The same punishment should be applied to Italian clubs.

[razor]

The reason English clubs were banned from Europe wasn't directly because of Heysel, but because as a result of 10-15 years of hooliganism by fans of many English clubs when they played in Europe.

I don't know about that, I reckon it was a reactionary decision to the disaster but remember at this stage Thatcher had already removed English clubs from European competition anyway.

[Macy]

rubbish that money and commercialism only affects utd . 99% of fans with season tickets are real fans .
there is very little trouble at games in england now , you would get the same here if clubs had 40,000 turning up every week .
it doesnt get reported the same way the trouble irish fans get into doesnt get reported

You talk some amount shíte. There's loads of trouble in the English game, it never really went away. Just because it's hushed up, and happens away from the stadiums doesn't mean it's not football violence. Yes the police are one of the best in the world at preventing it, but the firms are arguably at their biggest now since the early 80's. There used to be a site that you could look at the police reports from the games, made for interesting reading...

You must also come from the Nick Hancóck/Alan Davies school of muppetry if you really believe that United are the only club that's policies has moved football from a working class sport to a middle class sport. Christ on 606 on Saturday it was QPR fans phoning up about their ticket price rises and about them being priced out.

[anto1208]

[QUOTE=Macy]. Just because it's hushed up, and happens away from the stadiums doesn't mean it's not football violence

You must also come from the Nick Hancóck/Alan Davies school of muppetry if you really believe that United are the only club QUOTE]

on your first point if it happens away from football grounds then what are the clubs expected to do , how can this possibily be football voilence .
we are talking about voilence inside the ground as in the heysel stadium not a fight that takes place 3 miles away involving people that are nt at ,going to or coming from the game .

since there is so much trouble at games what was the the last fight you were in at a game ?, last voilence i saw was at an irish game

listen to what your saying

as for the second point , fans want the clubs to pay huge wages and expect prices not to go up on the gates its called inflation , even at that i support a top 4 premiership team and it costs me under £20 per game for my ticket most would spend double that in the pub on a sat night .and we are a working class team and have over 35,000 a week at every home game

think about what your saying just because one qpr fan cant afford the ticket price means nothing , plus disagree with me if you want but dont go calling people names just because you dont know what your on about. im not talking ****e as i keep getting accussed of ,like with the sky sports discussion untill i was proven right yet again but then the ones you are quick to say i dont know what im on about are never so quick to admit they are wrong .

[Nempton]

Originally quoted by anto1208
childish it may be but who started it is very important considering it was thought liverpool fans started it

Well I'm glad you agree with me but there was no need to repeat what you had previously posted but then it seems that you missed the point. Its irrelevant who started it so I'll put it to you like this how can you be so certain that Liverpool fans didn't start antagonising the Juventus fans? How can you be certain that it was Juventus fans that started trouble? And please don't forget the other factors involved. Perhaps you are basing your views on what you heard one person say on television, and maybe their opinions are as biased as yours in this thread. Again I'll stress to you that at the end, everyone involved has to take responsibility, pointing the finger of accusation at others while in denial about your own involvement achieves nothing. What is important is prevention of anything like this happening again.

Originally posted by anto1208
for years liverpool fans have been branded murderers and scum because they "rushed " a section of juve fans , but the fact that they were only trying to help there mates puts a different spin on things .

Of course it puts a different spin on things if you argue that in fact when the Liverpool fans charged at the Juventus fans that they were only helping their mates. I guess we just misinterpreted their good natured intent just like those involved in the tragedy did. Seriously, you cannot expect people to swallow that nonsense and what kind of person are you to try in the first place, is it ignorance, naivety, insensitivity...what is it? Did you graduate from the George W. Bush School of Spin because the waffle you have been talking, reiterating the same point and refusing to believe your arguments are misplaced and wrong it would seem to suggest so.

maybe if you were a liverpool fan and had to put up with the stigma attached to being a liverpool fan you would under stand a bit better

It doesn't matter who I support but its a question of character. If Limerick FC or Man Utd had been involved in a tragedy such as Heysel regardless of what stigma comes with it, I would have no problem putting my hand up and accepting responsibilty because thats the kind of person I am. What kind of person are you?

[anto1208]

nempton i dont think im explaining myself properly sorry , i dont mean to be getting into a its there fault arguement because i was nt there i dont know what happened i have only seen the tv footage .and as you say i cant be certain if it was the juve fans or i cant be certain if it was the liverpool fans so why are only the liverpool fans being blamed ?

baring in mind that no one is sure who started it why was it only english clubs that got banned and not the italian clubs ?

if either limerick or everton had been involved with such an incident id be holding my hand up aswell ive no problem accepting responsibilty if i was a liverpool fan id accept it just the same as if i was a juve fan except the juve fans dont accept any of it ! why ?

all im trying to say (not very well i know ) is why is liverpool fc getting all the blame when as you say the're was many factors to take into consideration .

[DeLorean]

Apologies to whoever, didn't realise posting full articles was against forum rules. Believe it or not, I had those who can't access certain links at work's interests at heart! Anyway, 30th anniversary of the Heysel Stadium Disaster today and came across these on my travels. The last one is particularly interesting I thought as I never knew about him before.


BBC - Heysel disaster: English football's forgotten tragedy?


Liverpool Echo - The Heysel disaster - 30 years on


Belfast Telegraph - Remembering Belfast man Patrick Radcliffe who died in Heysel tragedy