QuoteOriginally Posted by Rafa B
Dig up Rafa, Dig up ! you hit the "6" key twice by "mistake"
Sounds like you want everyone to forget about Heysel because of what happened in Hillsborough. Wrong way to be looking at things.
29th may 85
heysel 39 rip
16th april 89
hillsborough 96 rip
Dig up Rafa, Dig up ! you hit the "6" key twice by "mistake"
Sounds like you want everyone to forget about Heysel because of what happened in Hillsborough. Wrong way to be looking at things.
enough
Dig up Rafa, Dig up ! you hit the "6" key twice by "mistake"
Sounds like you want everyone to forget about Heysel because of what happened in Hillsborough. Wrong way to be looking at things.
Thats why i have agreed with you on everything you said about Heysel thats why i have a Heysel wristband in memory of them. Wrong way to be reading things.
I know exactly when Hillsborogh was typing mistake doesn't mean i don't.
Here here Jockser listen i didn't want to cause anyone offence i just take exception when someone starts going on about Heysel the day of the hillsborough anniversary but then again they probably knew no one involved in the disasters. Do people mention or put post up about Hillsborough on MAY 29TH no they respect the 39 anway as you said ENOUGH
Sorry I started all this.
PS I heard Inter only got a six match behind closed doors ban - two suspended.
Waddya say about that there Roo69.
6 matches and a fineSorry I started all this.
PS I heard Inter only got a six match behind closed doors ban - two suspended.
Waddya say about that there Roo69.
Not sure if the sentence is harsh enough
Today is the 15th of April for the last time !!!!!!! You are talking about tomorrow.
No i don't know anyone involved in it but i still respect the fact that it happend and have sympathy's for everyone who was involved in it.
The subject was brought up because of the programme on last night, the same way i'm sure it will be when they show a programme about Hillsbourgh
Ok fair enough sorry the only reason i got annoyed was i thought it odd that regardless of the programme last night you posted it today with it being the 16th anniversary of Hillsborough when you could have brought it up over the last few weeks since the draw was made and it was given full media coverage anyway no point in us arguing over it were both Wanderers fans!!!!!!!
I'm a Liverpool fan but I have no problem in admitting that Heysel was shameful. The programme last night was the first time that I saw video coverage of what happened, and it was truely shocking. Having seen it, I can understand completely the attitude of the Juve fans. Regarding the flag that made a reference to hillsborough 'God exists', what happened that night makes you think 'If what goes around comes around, was hillsborough it'? As it said in the documentary, it took a tragedy similar to Heysel to happen to their own before the English acted.
I think now that this 'amicizia' stuff was a load of bullsh1t really. It looks shallow and too conveniently choreographed to me. Leaves a bad taste in the mouth. This stuff should have been done years ago, not just thrown together when the two sides were finally drawn against each other in europe. I was disgusted and horrified last night watching the scenes of the Juve fans being crushed. What disgusts me even more is that Heysel seems to have been swept under the carpet and forgotton by Liverpool FC, until now when they were forced to face it head on. At the same time, the club champions the cause of the hillsborough victims, and rightly so. But why is Heysel forgotton and Hillsborough not? Especially when Heysel was caused by Liverpool fans? It smacks of hypocrisy and selective memory to me. There isn't even a memorial to it at Anfield. Maybe it's out of shame?
Having said all that, I don't think that this would have happened had it been held in an appropriate stadium. Had there been proper segregation and not just chicken wire fencing, the running and subsequent crush wouldn't have been possible. The Italians were not holier than thou in all of this either. They were actually the ones who engaged the Liverpool fans initially, by goading, throwing things and spitting. They also threw missiles, debris and bricks at Liverpool players. Naturally, the Liverpool fans retaliated. I don't accept for one second though that these Liverpool fans wanted to kill anybody, let alone 39 fans. I don't think they realised the crush they were causing on the other side. They were being spat on and abused by Italian fans, and when they broke through to confront them, the Italians just ran. The Liverpool fans would have expected a confrontation, but all that happened was the Italians ran back and crushed everyone behind them.
Finally, it wasn't just Liverpool fans who charged the Italians. There were hooligans attached to other clubs present in the crowd that attacked the Italians. This is a fact, not a myth. There is pictorial evidence in some publications to back this up, including Steven Kellys 'Official History of Liverpool FC'. Watching the documentary, English shirted fans could clearly be seen. Liverpool fans never wore English replica shirts to Liverpool games. It is well known that the English national team has always had little support on merseyside. Scousers don't and never have identified themselves as English. They identify themselves as Liverpudlians, as scousers. English replica shirted Liverpool fans? Yeah right! Londoners more like. The following is taken from the Heysel site linked to earlier in the thread. It's an Italian site. "After the events in Rome, club rivalries in England had been put aside: Juventus were to catch the full fury of the English hooligan elite. It should be understood that not just Liverpool hooligans were present. There were contingents from a great many firms all over the country, from Luton MIGS to Millwall Bushwackers, West Ham ICF and Newcastle Toon Army"
What happened was a tragedy, but the reality is that the fans of both sides, UEFA, and the various Belgian authorities were all to blame in some way or another.
Last edited by 4tothefloor; 15/04/2005 at 10:45 PM.
Yeah, was very sad. But then to see that B**** Thatcher talking about people been killed was shocking considering what she did over the years
Life without Rovers, it makes no sense...it's a heartache...nothing but a fools game. S.R.F.C.
[QUOTE=stojkovic]You obviously didnt watch the second half of the programme where they analysed how it all happened.[/QUO
you are basing your opinions a badly put together RTE program that only shows part of the story
not once did they mention that LFC club objected in writing to the game being played there ,not once in the program did it mention that known BNP members travelled to brussels
Not once did it mention previous liverpool /italian club games .
Nor did they mention the most important factor in all this ,was actually Roma fans the year before in Rome when Liverpool fans had to enter the ground surrounded by knife wielding Roma fans on one side and baton wielding caribinieri on the other side -Hundreds of Liverpool fans slashed ,and police stood back and left em -Then after the game ,no buses or trains running to bring them back into town ,leaving them to face the gauntlet again.
Liverpool fans were expecting similar treatment in brussels but for most of the day there was nothing but good feelings in the the "grand place" with both sets of fans havin mad sing song
It was ONLY when the missiles were thrown into their section that brought on the retaliation of the charge that caused the deaths .
It was a calamity from the start , a stadium that should never have held a game of this stature ,a inept police foirce ,whose only big crowd experience was Royal parades ,a organisation body (uefa)that didn't give two tuppenny fcuks about working class fans and who blatently ignored advise and requests from fans and clubs
Liverpool fans were very very wrong to charge,as were Italien fans that were throwing missiles and poles ,but facts remain ,this should never ever have taken place in that location , and to this day ,those resposible for those decisions ,has still remained unpunished
Why has there been no inquiry ?????Why were reports buried ???
The lunatic is on the grass
The lunatic is on the grass
Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
Got to keep the loonies on the path
I remember watching the trouble that night. It delayed the game so late, that I could only watch the first 20 minutes or so, and didn't hear the result until the following morning. As for the attitude of the Juve fans, they're just a bunch of hypocrites. They bang on about Heysel, as if they were holier than thou. Their fans took part in the trouble that night, I remember watching their fans firing missiles, after the Liverpool fans had stopped. And as if, their fans have never caused trouble at games since.Hooliganism is rampant in Italian football. The way they go on, you'd think Liverpool fans have never suffered tragedy at football games.
It was incredible for UEFA to think that they could play a European Cup Final in an antiquated stadium, put English and Italian fans in the same terrace with inadequate "segregation" and policing, (knowing the reputation of both countries' supporters), not impose an alcohol ban before the game, allow fans to enter the stadium without showing their tickets, and think that there would be no trouble. Liverpool got the blame, and the punishment, but if UEFA had considered the safety and security concerns involved beforehand, the whole tragedy would have been avoided. It was therefore their fault.
I didn't see the programme the other night but I will never forget the night I watched the tragedy unfold at Heysel in '85. There is no point in blaming Liverpool 'fans' solely for what happened that night. As has already been mentioned, this tragedy had it's beginnings the previous year in Rome when Liverpool defeated Roma in the European Cup final. There was trouble between rival 'fans' and there is no doubt that Italian 'fans' were out for revenge in Brussels.
It was wrong for UEFA to play the game at such a delapadated stadium.
It was wrong not to have proper segregation between fans.
It was wrong to have poorly trained and poorly organised security personnel.
It was wrong to allow several people into the match without even checking their tickets.
It was wrong for the Juventus supporters to start taunting and throwing missiles at the Liverpool supporters.
It was wrong for the Liverpool 'fans' to retaliate in the way they did.
It was wrong to play the match.
For the families and friends of the 39 who lost their lives that night, their lives will never be the same again and they have my deepest sympathy. But I also feel sorry for genuine Liverpool supporters. I know that many of them were ashamed for what happened that night, and for the way such a great club was damaged by nothing other than scum. It undoubtably must have been difficult to try in some way to build bridges with Juventus after Heysel. When you think about it, how could they? How could anyone make up for what happened that night? What do you say? What do you do? After all many of those involved were not even Liverpool supporters anyway. As Mark Lawrenson said recently, not even the players talked about what happened afterwards. It just never came into conversation between those that were there. I think it was sad that some of the Juventus' fans reacted in the way they did at Anfield towards Liverpool's attempts to say sorry for Heysel. True, what they did probably wasn't great but as I already said what could they do. Forgiveness is a hard thing to give and it's up to each individual to decide for themselves. But revenge is a dangerous thing. Remember it was this that was one of the contributary factors to Heysel in the first place.
If you don't like John 3:7...
There's always Limerick 37!
There was another documentary on BBC2 last night for an hour and a half.
It really put the RTE one to shame.
It followed Juve & Pool fans back to the stadium 20 years later.
Went into far more detail.
"Must you tell me all your secrets when it's hard enough to love you knowing nothing."
http://worddok.blogspot.com
i didnt see the rte one but last night on bbc they said that juve fans broke into section Z and were attacking liverpool fans , this is why the liverpool fans rushed the Z section and caused the crush , also said the wall falling probibly saved lives rather than killing anyone coz it released pressure , most of the deaths were suffocated or trambled to death .
but to but all the blame at liverpools door is very harsh since it was the juve fans that started it .
Just cause you support Liverpool there is no need to type like them too.
In Trap we trust
Thats a very childish thing to say. In another thread about hooliganism you got into an argument about who was worst, English or Italian fans. Which fans are the worst is a pointless argument because hooliganism in any form or level is unacceptable, it doesn't matter who is the worst but what does matter is the efforts being made to stamp it out. In regards to Heysel to say who started it, who retaliated is irrelevant. There were a number of factors that contributed to the disaster and accepting responsibility for Heysel is not something that should be avoided by those involved.Originally quoted by anto1208
but to but all the blame at liverpools door is very harsh since it was the juve fans that started it .
The programme on RTE1 was interesting, perhaps a little bare due to resources but it was good that they mentioned Bradford and the diasaster that occurred with their fans who were burnt alive. The English FA did nothing about this, Margaret Thatcher paid a visit to the ground but did not pursue those responsible as she did with Heysel. It was not until Hillsborough did the focus of crowd/stadium safety become a national issue that demanded change which subsequently occurred. Nor is there ever any mention of the disaster at Bradford except at local level where each year those who perished are remembered and how some players who were there that night like Stuart McCall are there and pay their respects. The English FA would at times really make you appreciate the FAI.
Limerick 37, its so shiny and new we dare not take the cover off.
I second everything you have just said. I think Bradford is the forgotten footballing disaster. It was horrific. Again, im too young to have witnessed these first hand, but ive seen the footage, and Its stayed with me.
In the instance of Heysel Its not a case of who started it, its the fact that innocent people died due to factors which should have been taken care of, such as security, segregation etc.
Excellent post. I remember Heysel and seeing both programmes recently brought the horror of it back vividly. Both programmes had their merits but the common theme I thought was that the tragedy resulted from the actions of not just the Liverpool supporters but from other factors as well. Having said that it is right that all those responsible should accept their part in it unreservedly.
"I'd rather play in front of a full house than an empty crowd" Johnny Giles
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks