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Thread: Starting Line-up Vs Gibraltar

  1. #41
    Club Member backstothewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samhaydenjr View Post
    The following realistic options all have fewer than ten caps:

    Doherty, Stevens, Cunningham, Egan, Hourihane, Williams, Browne, Robinson, Maguire, Hogan, O'Brien, McGoldrick and Curtis.
    Doherty is in my team
    Curtis is in my team

    Stevens is 28
    Cunningham is 28
    Hourihane 28
    Williams is 32
    McGoldrick is 31
    Collins is 28

    It may be worth Involving Egan, Browne, Maguire & Hogan but for the older lads the reality is that if we are saying that getting 10 caps is the bar for establishing themselves with senior players ahead of them none of them are likely to get there before they are in their 30s.

    If you've not been good enough to already be on 10 caps by the time you are in your mid 20 years there isn't any point investing time in trying to develop you as a player. The potential returns no longer represent value for the investment. They need to be able to hit the ground running if a chance comes their way but we shouldn't be giving guys like Hourihane the chance of the run out when a soft game like this comes up. At that age if they can't show up and perform in a proper qualifier they has no business being involved in international football.

  2. #42
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    I think Browne deserves a real chance. He is only 23 and chips in with quite a few goals from central midfield - something we need to improve upon. It's difficult to predict what type of formation McCarthy will go with; earlier comments of his seemed to rule out a 4-4-2. The idea of a 5-3-2 versus Gibraltar seems odd so perhaps a 4-3-3, in which case I'd expect something like

    Randolph
    Coleman Duffy Keogh Doherty
    Browne Hendrick Brady
    Long Maguire McClean

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  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by backstothewall View Post
    Doherty is in my team
    Curtis is in my team

    Stevens is 28
    Cunningham is 28
    Hourihane 28
    Williams is 32
    McGoldrick is 31
    Collins is 28

    It may be worth Involving Egan, Browne, Maguire & Hogan but for the older lads the reality is that if we are saying that getting 10 caps is the bar for establishing themselves with senior players ahead of them none of them are likely to get there before they are in their 30s.

    If you've not been good enough to already be on 10 caps by the time you are in your mid 20 years there isn't any point investing time in trying to develop you as a player. The potential returns no longer represent value for the investment. They need to be able to hit the ground running if a chance comes their way but we shouldn't be giving guys like Hourihane the chance of the run out when a soft game like this comes up. At that age if they can't show up and perform in a proper qualifier they has no business being involved in international football.
    Yes I know you included Curtis and Doherty - I wanted to show the full list of players who need bedding in now, considering that this is actually the beginning of a qualifying campaign, with a crucial game three days later - it's not a time for major experimenting (particularly not with teenagers with no first team experience), rather it's a time for finalizing plans and we should only include players who are ready to play a serious role in these qualifiers. In fact I wouldn't have had any experimenting if it was possible, only that we've had a bunch or retirements and injuries and a few of these players have made serious strides over the last few months - I'm not saying they'll magically become better players with a game against Gibraltar. But behind our Premier League players, they are our next best options for filling a few holes and need to settle into Mick's system, whatever that is.

    Of the list I gave, I would narrow down the list of players who should actually play to the following: Doherty, Stevens, Browne, McGoldrick, Robinson and Maguire, maybe Egan.

    As regards writing off players who are 28, I would like to note that Jon Walters got around fifty caps and 13 of his 14 international goals after turning 29. As for McGoldrick, he is in his best form in years and due to retirements and injuries is clearly our number 2 or 3 striker going into the campaign. He's still within his peak years for this campaign at least and could still be around when the 2022 qualifiers start.

  5. #44
    Club Member backstothewall's Avatar
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    Quite so re: Walters. Imagine what might have been if we someone had taken a punt on him when he was 20.

    I quite agree about finalising plans. That is exactly what should be happening on the training field. With a particular focus on what we will need to do to break a tough Georgian nut or any other team who are happy to sit in looking for a point. Hopefully a lot of work on set pieces as well. We should be a big threat from a dead ball in this campaign.

  6. #45
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    10 caps and 28 years of age is fairly arbitrary. Doherty is 27 and has 5 caps and I'm sure nobody thinks we should park his international career.

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    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backstothewall View Post
    Quite so re: Walters. Imagine what might have been if we someone had taken a punt on him when he was 20.
    He would have hardly fitted into your plans at that time though, would he? The young players you've included are all at major clubs - Bayern Munich, Manchester United and Liverpool, no less, so I find it unlikely you'd have taken a punt on a guy on loan at Crewe Alexandra.

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    Club Member backstothewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olé Olé View Post
    10 caps and 28 years of age is fairly arbitrary. Doherty is 27 and has 5 caps and I'm sure nobody thinks we should park his international career.
    Doherty has forced his way in on merit. He's not being given a soft cap. He's played out of his skin for 2 years and forced his way in.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    He would have hardly fitted into your plans at that time though, would he? The young players you've included are all at major clubs - Bayern Munich, Manchester United and Liverpool, no less, so I find it unlikely you'd have taken a punt on a guy on loan at Crewe Alexandra.
    Why even bother posting something so obviously factually incorrect. I've included 22 year old Ronan Curtis who is at Portsmouth and 19 year old Aaron Connolly who is on loan at Luton (Who is in fact injured but hey ho) . Apologies to any Portsmouth/Luton fans out there who consider Pompey or the Hatters to be one of the giants of European football.

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    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    Not sure why Curtis is even in this discussion. He's been capped, has played regular grown up football and, as you say, is 22. I forgot you included Connolly, my bad.

  10. #49
    Seasoned Pro Kingdom's Avatar
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    Can't we all just get along?
    That's what I love about these high school girls, man. I get older, they stay the same age

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  12. #50
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom View Post
    Can't we all just get along?
    Healthy debate.

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  14. #51
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    OKay, how about this?

    _______________Randolph_______
    _____Coleman____ Duffy____Egan
    Doherty______________________Brady
    _____Hendrick___Browne__O'Dowda__
    _________Long_____McGoldrick_____

    Coleman and Doherty to exchange positions every so often. Second-half subs (assuming no injuries): Stevens for Brady; Robinson for McGoldrick; and either McClean for O'Dowda or Maguire for Long
    Last edited by samhaydenjr; 02/03/2019 at 2:06 AM.

  15. #52
    Club Member backstothewall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samhaydenjr View Post
    OKay, how about this?

    _______________Randolph_______
    _____Coleman____ Duffy____Egan
    Doherty______________________Brady
    _____Hendrick___Browne__O'Dowda__
    _________Long_____McGoldrick_____

    Coleman and Doherty to exchange positions every so often. Second-half subs (assuming no injuries): Stevens for Brady; Robinson for McGoldrick; and either McClean for O'Dowda or Maguire for Long
    I've said what I've said about Gibraltar but that's very similar to what I would play against Georgia. Robinson would play in place of Curtis if fit but it looks unlikely (and possibly After in place of Hendrick)

    ________________Randolph_______________
    ______Coleman____Duffy____Egan_______
    Doherty____Hendrick___Browne____Brady __O'Dowda_____McGoldrick_____Curtis__
    Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Not entirely sure a 3-7-0 formation is what's called for against Gibraltar tbh

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    Quote Originally Posted by backstothewall View Post
    I've said what I've said about Gibraltar but that's very similar to what I would play against Georgia. Robinson would play in place of Curtis if fit but it looks unlikely (and possibly After in place of Hendrick)

    ________________Randolph_______________
    ______Coleman____Duffy____Egan_______
    Doherty____Hendrick___Browne____Brady __O'Dowda_____McGoldrick_____Curtis__
    Then I guess my point is that this is still, to a large extent, an untested line-up, so a run-out for this eleven against Gibraltar would be far more beneficial in advance of the Georgia game than playing talented underage players who probably won't be playing high-level first team football for 12-18 months, if ever.

    Sidenote: I has dismissed Conor Hourihane as serious contender a midfield role in the upcoming qualifiers, based on a recent game I saw where he was anonymous in an insipid performance by Villa and was substituted to cheers. Today he scored two goals, so what do I know?

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    International Prospect tricky_colour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backstothewall View Post
    Where have we ever seen the likes? How could anyone contemplate something so crazy?

    Short memories.

    It's Gibraltar. That side is easily good enough to put 9 past them. I'm suggesting this because we need to get some youth and pace into our side. We've looked utterly turgid since the Euros.

    If we invest minutes into these lads now at 17 or 18 their development will benefit tremendously. With any luck by 20 they will be in the team on merit and will hopefully be part of our team for a decade or more to come. Fairly symptomatic of the issues we have been having in recent years that experimenting by giving a debut to a 17 year old kid who seems to be very highly regarded at Bayern Munich is deemed "hallucinogenic", while experimenting by giving a 3rd cap to a 32 year old playing in the English 3rd tier with Millwall is deemed as an entirely sensible approach.

    I would not field too weak a team for they might put 9 by us.

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    International Prospect tricky_colour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by backstothewall View Post
    I've said what I've said about Gibraltar but that's very similar to what I would play against Georgia. Robinson would play in place of Curtis if fit but it looks unlikely (and possibly After in place of Hendrick)

    ________________Randolph_______________
    ______Coleman____Duffy____Egan_______
    Doherty____Hendrick___Browne____Brady __O'Dowda_____McGoldrick_____Curtis__
    Not sure we should be fielding a 7 man defence with Randolf up front, Gibraltar are not that good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samhaydenjr View Post
    OKay, how about this?

    _______________Randolph_______
    _____Coleman____ Duffy____Egan
    Doherty______________________Brady
    _____Hendrick___Browne__O'Dowda__
    _________Long_____McGoldrick_____

    Coleman and Doherty to exchange positions every so often. Second-half subs (assuming no injuries): Stevens for Brady; Robinson for McGoldrick; and either McClean for O'Dowda or Maguire for Long
    Swap Stevens for Egan, Crowley for Hendrick and Maguire for Long. Might be a bit harsh on Egan as he is playing really well according to reports. But to keep the balance Stevens with the left foot would be optimal.
    At the end of the day I want to see us playing the ball on the floor and this will be a good game to start that practice.
    We are going to need goals and three points, but I would like to see, at some stage of this game, the Irish lads try to put together
    some cohesive passing moves.

  21. #58
    First Team IsMiseSean's Avatar
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    When is the squad being named?

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    First Team TrapAPony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IsMiseSean View Post
    When is the squad being named?
    Thursday
    "We lost because we didn't win"- Ronaldo

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    Code:
        Randolph/Westwood
       Coleman Duffy Egan
    Doherty Browne Arter Brady
         Hendrick/Hourihane
         McGoldrick Maguire
    Either/or in goals, I've no preference. Westwood to let him know he's still in the manager's thoughts, Randolph because he hasn't done anything to deserve losing the number 1 jersey. To be perfectly honest if either of them have anything to do for the game, we've bigger problems
    Coleman and Doherty to switch, i.e. Coleman pushes up, Doherty goes into defence, and vice versa
    Duffy and Egan to do centre half stuff, Duffy the obvious target at set pieces
    Browne in the holding role, Arter pushing forward
    Brady crossing, because Brady
    Either/or in the hole behind the front two. Hourihane in decent form for Villa, Hendrick getting back into the first team at Burnley
    All goals, yellow and red cards tweeted in real time: http://twitter.com/irish_abroad and posted to facebook: https://www.facebook.com/irishfootballstatisics

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