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Thread: Attendances 2019

  1. #281
    Seasoned Pro El-Pietro's Avatar
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    Why would a team under declare attendance? The ticket sales are not taxed (with the exception of Derry). What possible reason could teams have for under reporting? If anything over reporting makes more sense to try and impress sponsors and encourage more fans to attend in future.

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    International Prospect Lim till i die's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Pietro View Post
    Why would a team under declare attendance? The ticket sales are not taxed (with the exception of Derry). What possible reason could teams have for under reporting?
    This is asked every couple of months on here and the innocence warms the cockles of my heart.

    As for impressing sponsors, there are no sponsors in the LoI, just charitable donors.

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  4. #283
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    Underdeclaring the crowd allows some clubs to pocket the cash paid at the gate to pay some bills/players in cash.

    I'd say it is "mostly" in the past as most clubs issue numbered tickets and sell online where there is a paper trail.
    That match i mentioned earlier in Bray when Rovers won the league i paid a tenner cash on the gate to a guy who waved me on when i put my hand out for a ticket.
    The crowd declared on the night escapes my addled memory but i do remember laughing at the number at the time.

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  6. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Ah come on RH, under declaring ticket sales is as old as the hills and as much a key LoI business practice as spending money ye dont have hoping to make money. Maybe not in this case and I dont dispute the figures but it will be a while yet before I take all declared ticket sales and announced attendanes anywhere at face value. Its not that long ago that we were given cloakroom tickets at United Park eg. If there are hand held scanners used than people can slip through occasionally without their ticket scanned. That can be reconciled with ticket sales to some extent. I wasnt at the game so cant comment at the level of risk, precieved or real, but it is not unknown for crowd congestion entering league grounds. I hate when there is a delayed response to a developing situation (in general as Im aware of how things get very bad very quickly) even if there was no risk this time, the next time there could be with larger numbers if a proper debrief isnt done to improve decision making on the move - especially with Na GardaŪ who will be dealing with huge crowds and need to act quickly to avert injury or worse.
    The argument for under reporting of attendance only really has any grounds when there's cash at the gate with no physical ticket involved (which can be hidden away with no paper trail) or complimentary tickets which fall in a bit of a grey zone it seems to count or not to count (personally think it should be, its attendance not tickets sold). Now I doubt Rovers were giving complimentary tickets away for the away end and Tallaght is an all ticket stadium so there goes both those possibilities. Also the fact this isn't a declared or announced number, it's just someone asking a mate in the ticket office to have a look at how many away tickets were issued for away fans for them so there's absolutely no reason for it to be incorrect, other than that it's tickets sold so the actual attendance could be lower but couldn't be higher.

    All that's before you get into the ridiculousness of calling a standalone statement that wasn't trying to be relevant to anything other than attendance numbers which it does quite well irrelevant. This conversation was also had and concluded immediately after the game and brought up by one poster as part of their weird obsession with Rovers for no real reason.
    Last edited by RathfarnhamHoop; 13/03/2019 at 3:09 PM.

  7. #285
    Seasoned Pro Ezeikial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    There's an awful lot of ****e posted on this site but I think claiming figures from a clubs official ticket office are neither relevant nor credible probably takes the biscuit.
    It's actually impossible for the figure to not be relevant as they were posted just in case any Dundalk fans were interested in the official number and not in relation to any conversation that might have been going on in your own head Ez. Claiming they're not credible on the basis of not believing the poster is one thing but claiming they're not credible on the basis the ticket office itself is wrong is laughable, especially when the game was an all ticket event and the number is roughly what multiple estimates have put it at and what has been taken on here as the number.

    Now if the conversation is now (back) on the issues of the night there's actually a few things you're leaving out Ez. Mainly that it may have taken 20 minutes to open the next section but a while before that the netting at the front of the stand started to get moved but it was decided due to the rain to stop that and see about opening the next section so that fans could stay dry, trying to keep away fans under shelter, if only every set of away fans could be treated so well.

    Was the over crowding acceptable? No. It was a learning curve though and not deserving of being brought up again to such an extent out of nowhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop View Post
    The argument for under reporting of attendance only really has any grounds when there's cash at the gate with no physical ticket involved (which can be hidden away with no paper trail) or complimentary tickets which fall in a bit of a grey zone it seems to count or not to count (personally think it should be, its attendance not tickets sold). Now I doubt Rovers were giving complimentary tickets away for the away end and Tallaght is an all ticket stadium so there goes both those possibilities. Also the fact this isn't a declared or announced number, it's just someone asking a mate in the ticket office to have a look at how many away tickets were issued for away fans for them so there's absolutely no reason for it to be incorrect, other than that it's tickets sold so the actual attendance could be lower but couldn't be higher.

    All that's before you get into the ridiculousness of calling a standalone statement that wasn't trying to be relevant to anything other than attendance numbers which it does quite well. This conversation was also had and concluded immediately after the game and brought up by one poster as part of their weird obsession with Rovers for no real reason.
    For a lad who is complaining about this being brought up, you seem fairly determined to keep bumping it with similar successive posts.

    My final thoughts on this:

    I don't believe that the 798 number posted by Asterix is accurate, but whether it is or not is hardly the issue. You have acknowledged the overcrowding issue, which presumably means that you recognise there were insufficient seats allocated for the number of people admitted. Whether this is due to a wrong ticket count, ticket admin c**k-up or just that nobody could count the number of seats correctly is anyone's guess (although presumably will be known within the Shamrock Rovers club).

    The incredibly slow response to the overcrowding safety problem that inevitably developed is also a worry: the netting was removed from a small number of rows in one section only about 5 minutes into the match. This was a belated and inadequate response to a problem that was obvious to those in the stand for quite some time before that. It took another 15 minutes to open the adjacent unoccupied section of the stand.

    The overcrowding clearly presented safety issues - if there was a goal scored or another incident that sparked a crowd surge, the consequences could have been more serious than just mild discomfort for 15 minutes

    I sincerely hope that that club officials, AGS, and SDCC safety officers are not as blasť about dismissing this as you and others here.

  8. #286
    International Prospect Lim till i die's Avatar
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    I don't post that often here anymore.

    Is this fella for real? Or a super try hard wum?

    Wow.

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    Seasoned Pro marinobohs's Avatar
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    Who would have thought, facilitating the crowd was more interesting (for some) than the game itself 😁

    Honestly, some of the snowflakes on here are embarrassing.

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  11. #288
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    snowflake with a chip on both shoulders

  12. #289
    Seasoned Pro marinobohs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    snowflake with a chip on both shoulders
    Cliche overload 😁 perhaps we should open crowds ie 🙄

  13. #290
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Debating overcrowding at LoI games is a touch of a stretch I will agree. Actual away attendance at the game in question isnt really the point. What is essential is that if or whenever it happens that there is an unexpected load on facilities/staffing available, that there is a timely response!!! Every club has an Event Controller, there is a Garda presence, and stewards need to be on the ball too. Seeing Ezeikial's observations of being there on the night as little more as being a wum, snowflake, ott, in any way is a risky business. It wasnt a Hillsborough or Heysel (as were included in the wiki link) but its not something to ever be dismissed!! Jaysus if anyone has ever seen the incredible way in which the Bradford tragedy so quickly got out of hand then general sense would suggest that quicker reaction may have been a consideration and discussed post match even at LoI games. Mostly in my experience issues have developed due to having one or two stiles open while selling tickets at that stile, with a batter of people outside frantic to get in to the ground. So far not to the extent of a major crush happening, but the same people that oversee these smaller games also oversee much larger events be it games in the Aviva, Croke Park, concerts etc. If they have been allegedly slow in managing 7 or 800 people then lets seriously hope its never 7 or 8000.

    Ive been in Oriel during a few friendlies, one with Liverpool early 90's and it was f*cking horrible with 12k in the place that is no different than what is there today, the old Landsdowne when they still had the cageing on the south terrace circa 1995 and on both occasions it took no more than 10 minutes for the fun to turn to panic. In Oriel they passed kids (as I was myself at the time) over the then premiter fence with the touchline the 'overflow'. In landsdowne I ducked and dived toward the section gate and eventually a Garda opened the gate and people were falling out of the section breathless due to the crush (it was to the right and below where the old TV studio used to be looking toward the pitch). Now nothing ultimately happened these times bar a bit of a scare but if they were never discussed they could have been worse on another occasion. Its always a learning curve, should be seen as nothing else and never dismissed!! You wont get 12k in to Oriel Park in a hurry and those dividing fences in Landsdowne were taken down.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 13/03/2019 at 11:33 PM.

  14. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lim till i die View Post
    I don't post that often here anymore.

    Is this fella for real? Or a super try hard wum?

    Wow.
    I have a feeling he is <Mod Snip>

    Mod: Don't name people on here please.
    Last edited by Mr A; 14/03/2019 at 11:15 AM.

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    Unfortunatley be less than 50 of us in Derry tomorrow night, No Bus Companies will take fans up there still.

    Heading up with a mate in the car, looking forward to it and a few pre match pints with few Derry lads

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    Quote Originally Posted by dundalkfc10 View Post
    Unfortunatley be less than 50 of us in Derry tomorrow night, No Bus Companies will take fans up there still.

    Heading up with a mate in the car, looking forward to it and a few pre match pints with few Derry lads
    That's a real shame, and very behind the times too.

    Sure the likes of Linfield, Glentoran, Coleraine etc have been playing there with no hassle. Bringing union and ulster flags with them, and singing 'party tunes' in some cases (i.e. Coleraine). If their fans aren't getting attacked despite all that, then Dundalk should have nothing to worry about. Though I get why the bus firms are still reluctant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    That's a real shame, and very behind the times too.

    Sure the likes of Linfield, Glentoran, Coleraine etc have been playing there with no hassle. Bringing union and ulster flags with them, and singing 'party tunes' in some cases (i.e. Coleraine). If their fans aren't getting attacked despite all that, then Dundalk should have nothing to worry about. Though I get why the bus firms are still reluctant.
    Few seasons ago, buses were attacked on 2 separate occasions (local scum on way out of ground) and the bus companies wonít go anymore.

    We get same bus driver every away game and he says every time itís Derry, not allowed take use there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dundalkfc10 View Post
    Few seasons ago, buses were attacked on 2 separate occasions (local scum on way out of ground) and the bus companies won’t go anymore.

    We get same bus driver every away game and he says every time it’s Derry, not allowed take use there.
    I know all that, but my point still stands. If union jack carrying Coleraine fans can go to a game at the Brandywell, sing GSTQ and the Sash, and then leave without incident, then Dundalk fans should have nothing to worry about (and by extension, the bus company).

    I get the issue, But times have changed.

  19. #296
    Reserves mcgonigle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatYerGreens View Post
    I know all that, but my point still stands. If union jack carrying Coleraine fans can go to a game at the Brandywell, sing GSTQ and the Sash, and then leave without incident, then Dundalk fans should have nothing to worry about (and by extension, the bus company).

    I get the issue, But times have changed.
    The bus companies are basing their decision on experience. This was not 10 years ago, it was as recent as 2 and 3 years ago, it happened multiple times and was not isolated to Dundalk. Why would they take the chance? While it might not have happened since the redevelopment Derry cannot guarantee it will not happen again

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    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Its understandible from the coach companies I suppose. But things do change, it will probably take a while for the companies to get the message though. It is a shame as Derry is one of the best away trips, always a great chat with the Derry fans in the pubs before the game. How's the atmosphere in the new Brandywell? Ive yet to visit and crowds are up after a few lean years. There was always a cracking atmosphere, especially back in the heady days of the late 80's between Dundalk and Derry...that penalty in the cup final was more than made up for the following year!!! ;p

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcgonigle View Post
    The bus companies are basing their decision on experience. This was not 10 years ago, it was as recent as 2 and 3 years ago, it happened multiple times and was not isolated to Dundalk. Why would they take the chance? While it might not have happened since the redevelopment Derry cannot guarantee it will not happen again
    Can any club really make any guarantees!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesta99 View Post
    Its understandible from the coach companies I suppose. But things do change, it will probably take a while for the companies to get the message though. It is a shame as Derry is one of the best away trips, always a great chat with the Derry fans in the pubs before the game. How's the atmosphere in the new Brandywell? Ive yet to visit and crowds are up after a few lean years. There was always a cracking atmosphere, especially back in the heady days of the late 80's between Dundalk and Derry...that penalty in the cup final was more than made up for the following year!!! ;p
    Canít wait for a few pints up there tomorrow, heading up at 3 to a have a few pre match. The locals/fans in the pubs be 100%

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  24. #300
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    Enjoy! Wish I was able to go myself. Ye ould be in the pub by 5.30 so enough time to get 1 or 2 more than a few - make up for the lack of cans not bussing it

    Is the Brandywell Pride supporters group still on the go? Whenever they were at a match in Dublin they'd head home via Dundalk and in to Oriel for a few beers. Couple of time the Lillywhite was opened up for them and there was even chips and cocktail sausages ordered in from Mullens for them. Good bunch of lads! We were a 1st Division club then so about as close as it got to premier division football in Oriel then...
    Last edited by Nesta99; 15/03/2019 at 8:00 AM.

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