Yeah that's completely fair. Kenny's caps have basically all been good ones. Maybe not players who are fully ready yet but the best options we have for the medium term anyway. I wish we had another 26-30 year old midfielder who could help Knight and Molumby along but it is what it is and at least Kenny has decided to play them now and not lean on older options who are on the way out rather than up.
FWIW, and this isn't in response to you SkStu, I think we'll look back on Kennys tenure as a very turbulent one with some decent attempts made at changing the culture and style of football that were probably a bit too ambitious given the players at our disposal. Ultimately we will remember the results and tactics not being good enough but there have been some positives and we did need to try something new IMOP. One thing we will definitely say is that a good number of our best players in future years were brought in by him and encouraged to play.
I've moved on from him at this point. What's sad to me is that posters want to use his shortcomings to bash the LoI. Kenny had his shortcomings even within the LoI and many would have said that. Still deserved his shot, particularly given the FAIs finances but it hasn't worked and at this stage, his wages are good enough to attract someone who can do the job better. It's not an easy one but he's making it look harder than it is. We should be able to compete with Greece. I don't mind losing in Athens but we were tragically bad after a training camp dedicated to the game. I trust the current FAI slightly more to pick the right man as well.....slightly more.....
21 leagues and 25 cups.
I'm not sure about that last part. Too many managers of our past would go with the "experienced" guy. Was chatting about this with a buddy the other day that if Allardyce was appointed for example I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff Hendrick was starting for us again as he would be a safe, experienced player. Of course Ferguson would force his way in, but I don't think he would have done as quickly under other managersOriginally Posted by ontheotherhand
i think Ferguson would have been brought in even earlier by some managers! He's the only striker we have of any proven quality.
But yeah maybe Molumby and Knight would have been left out for longer in favour of Hendrick, Hourihane, Browne......although Browne may still be useful.
21 leagues and 25 cups.
O’Shea, Omobamidele and to a lesser extend Collins would be years behind at this stage. John Egan made his competitive debut for Ireland a week before his 27th birthday, while playing premier league for Sheffield United. Genuinely 3 years later than he was ready…
I might be missing your point here but would any of them not have been called up by other managers? We basically had to cap them all. I'm not sure even Big Sam wouldn't have looked for fresher options.
21 leagues and 25 cups.
Not really. I've been clear he had a good game in Greece and deserved the non-Greek MotM award.
But now we have people saying he kept us in the game. No he didn't.
And anyone other than - in fairness - OTOH can only discuss that in the context of personal attacks. You've just done it yourself for example. That's daft.
I'm reminded of a phrase you've used before - read the room. No other views welcome, eh? That's not really what discussion is about though.
It's just too awful to contemplate - the last three years without Stephen. What could possibly have gone right?
My reading of this particular room is just as I said it in my opening line above: you really do seem to only praise Bazunu begrudgingly, and I feel too that you take a particularly firm interpretation of his club situation “he’s not good enough”. It really feels like you just don’t like him.
I don’t think I’m alone in noticing this, see for example Crafty’s fireplace gag.
I honestly didn't realise I had made a personal attack, and certainly didn't intend to. Apologies.
Last edited by Stuttgart88; 22/06/2023 at 8:50 AM.
James McClean
I was about to make a similar point but I guess what es is saying is Kenny brought them on board earlier than other managers would have, which you could make a case for perhaps. Kenny put Dufffy out to pasture and went with younger partners for Egan... I do feel this would have happened pretty quickly anyway but may be true that O'Shea / Omoba would be on fewer caps than under another manager.
Molumby and Knight perhaps wouldn't be involved much under other managers, I would say they are the two he has really brought through that others may not have done, and Johnstone is something of a 'find'.
His statement wasn't directed at the journalists or the fans
That was for the board of the FAI
It was like David Brent " please don't fire me"
Looking at that O Neill brought in way more guys then kenny !!
I assume he meant came through from u19/u21 etc and then made senior debuts either while still eligible for the u21s or just after, which I guess the above doesn't show... but Mick did give debuts to Connolly, Parrott, Travers and O'Connor who all played for the underage teams.
Maybe he just didn't explain what he meant correctly. I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on this one...
It was in front of a group of journalists in the corridor outside the dressing room, it wasn't a press release, or something he posted online
https://www.the42.ie/stephen-kenny-s...98557-Jun2023/
I wouldn't assume that. In fact I don't think that's what he was saying
I think he was referring to senior debuts
I know that
But I still think it was for the benefit of his employers. Theyvr obviously seen it.
Btw it's pretty clear he will be Insitu until September.
I'd have took the "nine years" to be an exaggeration of the issue we've explored here quite a few times. There's a group of 30 something players and a group who were all still eligible to play under 21 up to this season. I'd say that's where the 9 years is roughly coming from. The gap between the now 23ish and under players he has brought through and the senior squad players the wrong side of 30. That's the gap, no players came through the Irish system. The few players that we have in the middle are players like Cullen, O'Dowda, Robinson, who were entirely developed in the UK system. That would be my take on it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Tallaght Stadium Regular
I think the gish of what Kenny had to say stands up - the comment doesn't need to be taken literally, especially as it was off-the-cuff. I'd rather see a chart of playing minutes per debutant out of total possible playing minutes. Because current senior players like Egan, Doherty, and Cullen were capped before Kenny but it was Kenny who integrated them into the starting team. Think it is fair to say Kenny has made more widespread changes to the squad, while previous managers were more conservative in making changes. Of the debuts O'Neill gave - maybe only Duffy established himself as a starter under his tenure? McCarthy wasn't in charge for too long so no benefit in pointing out he gave few playing minutes to the players he capped. Kenny has integrated his debutants in the team/ squad others before didn't do.
Even if the details aren’t correct, the reality is. If I remember correctly, we had the oldest squad in both euro 2012 and euro 2016.
In the last campaign, we had something like 10 u21s called up:
Bazunu
Ebosele
Collins
Omobamidele
Coventry
Knight
Connolly
Parrott
Idah
Obafemi
Obviously only 8 of 10 were capped but I looked it up at some point and Luxembourg were second most u21s involved in Europe with about 5 players.
Subsequently, Ferguson and Smallbone have also come through. So overall we’ve gone from having the oldest squad in Europe to probably the youngest
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