Stephen Kenny

[Trequartista20]

Just to so we're all clear, Greece are ranked three places behind an atocious Kenny-led Ireland. In the past year, they've drawn at home to Lithuania, away to Malta at lost in Cyprus.

UEFA's coefficient, based on recent European results, ranks the Greek league as 20th in Europe, nine places behind Serbia and eleven behind Scotland. It's also rated below the leagues of Norway, Denmark and Czechia.

This sports analytics company ranked the Greek Super League behind the likes of the Belgian second tier in 2021:

https://twitter.com/AndyForrester1/s...08765396959239

This site lists the Greek league behind likes of the French second tier and the Norwegian league:

https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/

Greece chose ten players from their domestic league in their most recent squad.

So, please let's not pretend Greece are some kind of footballing behemoth that we can't possibly, as a footballing nation, hope to compete with.

Greece are a mediocre footballing nation with a poor national team that somehow managed to absolutely batter us on Friday. Indeed it's perhaps measure of Greece's inadequacies as a team that they didn't put the four or five goals past us that the superiority of their performance deserved.

As far as the suggestion that if a player has at one point in his career played in European competition this is a mark of great quality and of being better than one who hasn't, well, that's such an obviously flawed line of reasoning that it's difficult to know where to begin.

Would our players suddenly be better if, rather than playing in the PL or Championship, they moved to a European qualified team playing in, for example, Cyprus or Gibraltar?

[Razors left peg]

So, please let's not pretend Greece are some kind of footballing behemoth that we can't possibly, as a footballing nation, hope to compete with.

Greece are a mediocre footballing nation with a poor national team that somehow managed to absolutely batter us on Friday. Indeed it's perhaps measure of Greece's inadequacies as a team that they didn't put the four or five goals past us that the superiority of their performance deserved.

I wouldnt mind being a mediocre footballing in nation of the level of Greece, who have won a major competition a lot more recently than others who claim to be top level footballing nations. Id love us to be so mediocre that our national league would compare to theirs.

As for them battering us, yes the 1st 10/15 mins Bazunu kept us in the game and that is not unusual for a home team to start well , but apart for us making a massive defensive mistake in 2nd half I dont recall too many chances that they created.

They then were solid enough to go to France and just get beaten by a penalty.

So while I would agree they are not a world super power, but I also dont think we have any right to expect to away to them and beat them. Yes we were poor on the night, players made silly mistakes, but lets not pretend that its an outrage of Luxembourg proportions .... oh wait Luxembourg are currently 2 nil up in Bosnia, to a Bosnia team that are fairly similarly ranked to ourselves, could it be that Luxembourg are not as bad we want to make them out to be either???

[pineapple stu]

As for them battering us, yes the 1st 10/15 mins Bazunu kept us in the game

Did he though?

He was very solid on the night and deserved token Irish MotM (well, him or Collins), but really he made one very good save early on and everything else was fairly routine.

[SkStu]

Just to so we're all clear, Greece are ranked three places behind an atocious Kenny-led Ireland. In the past year, they've drawn at home to Lithuania, away to Malta at lost in Cyprus.

UEFA's coefficient, based on recent European results, ranks the Greek league as 20th in Europe, nine places behind Serbia and eleven behind Scotland. It's also rated below the leagues of Norway, Denmark and Czechia.

This sports analytics company ranked the Greek Super League behind the likes of the Belgian second tier in 2021:

https://twitter.com/AndyForrester1/s...08765396959239

This site lists the Greek league behind likes of the French second tier and the Norwegian league:

https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/

Greece chose ten players from their domestic league in their most recent squad.

So, please let's not pretend Greece are some kind of footballing behemoth that we can't possibly, as a footballing nation, hope to compete with.

Greece are a mediocre footballing nation with a poor national team that somehow managed to absolutely batter us on Friday. Indeed it's perhaps measure of Greece's inadequacies as a team that they didn't put the four or five goals past us that the superiority of their performance deserved.

As far as the suggestion that if a player has at one point in his career played in European competition this is a mark of great quality and of being better than one who hasn't, well, that's such an obviously flawed line of reasoning that it's difficult to know where to begin.

Would our players suddenly be better if, rather than playing in the PL or Championship, they moved to a European qualified team playing in, for example, Cyprus or Gibraltar?

I think you are slightly misrepresenting the posts on the matter. Bottom line, we didnt play well against Greece and we should not have been battered the way we were. We have no divine right to beat them (as per the post earlier) but we should be expecting - as many said before the game - to challenge them, to put it up to them and that a win was a possibility and fairly at about a 35% chance. To be fair, Del's post wasnt claiming the Greek football team to be a behemoth. But their football culture and utility of their domestic league in an international context puts us to shame without doubt. If only we had a domestic league that could provide a third of the senior MNT squad.

Regarding players - would I want us to have the sort of recent representation in the European tournament group stages that the Greece team can point to? Without doubt. Would we be better off if we had a similar player profile and experience in top European games? Without doubt. That is how i interpreted his comments and there is nothing flawed about that at all.

[Razors left peg]

Did he though?

He was very solid on the night and deserved token Irish MotM (well, him or Collins), but really he made one very good save early on and everything else was fairly routine.

Yes he was excellent even if your own bias won't allow you to accept that

[CraftyToePoke]

Pineappler, did Bazunu talk his way into your house on Christmas Day & then relieve himself all over the presents under the tree & into the fireplace while smirking at you or something ?

[pineapple stu]

Neither of those is really an answer to the question though, which I find interesting.

[Diggs246]

Pineappler, did Bazunu talk his way into your house on Christmas Day & then relieve himself all over the presents under the tree & into the fireplace while smirking at you or something ?

The fireplace one is an interesting image!

[Diggs246]

Actually your talking about wee wee !

My bad

[ontheotherhand]

Neither of those is really an answer to the question though, which I find interesting.

Without wanting to rewatch it for obvious reasons, he made one very good save in the first half from a looping shot to the top corner and later came out to stop the Greek player who was through on goal when he might have stayed on his line. For me they were two fine pieces of goalkeeping. As you say other saves were more routine but I'll take routine with a smattering of quality at the moment. He was the only player who kept his head and performed at the right level and if he hadn't we would have been goosed by halftime. I think the halftime pundits even called it out with a series of highlights?

I get that you don't want to overhype him but.....it's surely OK to say he kept us in the game when he did in fact make multiple saves, particularly when we were under immense pressure for the opening 15 mins? He certainly performed better than Collins who was all over the shop at the back even if he got the goal.

[Trequartista20]

Whilst I don't obviously believe we have any 'devine right' to beat Greece on their home turf - and have heard no-one claim we do - the reality of the situation is that the the composition of the group we were drawn in and the subsequent home loss to France meant that we were left needing to get a result in Greece or risk falling out of contention for qualification after just two matches. So, in all reality, the Greek game was one we had to win, or, at the very, very worst, avoid defeat in and put in a credible and confidence-boosting performance that would leave us with a residual slither of hope that we might pull off the extraordinarily unlikely results then needed to finish in the top two.

Instead of this, and after no less than two weeks of preparation and planning, we put in the truly appalling non-performance that saw us comprehensively outplayed by an extremely moderate Greek side, placed below us in FIFA's world rankings. A team that, goalkeeper aside, any sensible observer would conclude actually possess very little real quality.

We should at a minimum consider ourselves on a similar level to Greece and at least been competitive. That's what have a right to expect. It wasn't that we failed to win - that we failed to avoid defeat even - that people find so unacceptable, it was the manner of that defeat.

We weren't even close, unable to get even the basics right. We looked a shambles, with players unsure of their roles and Kenny seemingly incapable of even identifying what the problems were, let alone knowing how to rectify them. And this was topped off by the loss of discipline that saw a player sent off.

People can talk up a very modest Greek team up all they want, but the bottom line is that Kenny was the single biggest factor in Friday's debacle. He was completely outwitted by his opposite number Poyet, and to a degree that was embarrassing to witness.

[elatedscum]

Whilst I don't obviously believe we have any 'devine right' to beat Greece on their home turf - and have heard no-one claim we do - the reality of the situation is that the the composition of the group we were drawn in and the subsequent home loss to France meant that we were left needing to get a result in Greece or risk falling out of contention for qualification after just two matches. So, in all reality, the Greek game was one we had to win, or, at the very, very worst, avoid defeat in and put in a credible and confidence-boosting performance that would leave us with a residual slither of hope that we might pull off the extraordinarily unlikely results then needed to finish in the top two.

Instead of this, and after no less than two weeks of preparation and planning, we put in the truly appalling non-performance that saw us comprehensively outplayed by an extremely moderate Greek side, placed below us in FIFA's world rankings. A team that, goalkeeper aside, any sensible observer would conclude actually possess very little real quality.

We should at a minimum consider ourselves on a similar level to Greece and at least been competitive. That's what have a right to expect. It wasn't that we failed to win - that we failed to avoid defeat even - that people find so unacceptable, it was the manner of that defeat.

We weren't even close, unable to get even the basics right. We looked a shambles, with players unsure of their roles and Kenny seemingly incapable of even identifying what the problems were, let alone knowing how to rectify them. And this was topped off by the loss of discipline that saw a player sent off.

People can talk up a very modest Greek team up all they want, but the bottom line is that Kenny was the single biggest factor in Friday's debacle. He was completely outwitted by his opposite number Poyet, and to a degree that was embarrassing to witness.

I think Brady's frustration just got the better of him, a father Jack moment.
There's little argument that it's the worst performing managerial period since 1972, but it's very questionable about the current bunch of players being the worst ever to choose from.

There’s a lot of talk about the quality of our squad - but I think the biggest thing we’re really lacking is one or two or three truly great players. If you go back to the 90s, Dennis Irwin is streets ahead of our best player now. Given, Finnan, Roy, Robbie, Duffer - there’s no one close to their level. Hopefully in three years time, Ferguson, Bazunu, Collins will all be elite but right now we’re missing any star quality. Doherty is our best player and is he in the 300 best players in Europe?

So many nations at a similar level to ourselves have produced players of real quality. Look at Norway with Haaland, Odegaard and the centre back at Napoli, Ukraine with Mudryk and Zinchenko, Slovenia with Oblak, Georgia with Kvaratskelia, Montenegro with Savic and Joveti?, Finland with Hradecky, Sweden with Isak, Lindelof and Kuluzevski, Albania with Broja, Austria with Alaba. So on, so on. As for Greece, I’d take Vlacodimis, Tsimikas and Bakasetas over any irish player right now. I think the overall quality of our squad is good but if we had two players of a level of Rice and Grealish (for example) - the entire make up and potential of the squad would be totally different.

[Snapshot]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...374969571.html

You better believe it. Stephen Kenny waves his CV, tells us he's the man.

[CraftyToePoke]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023...mn-soliliquoy/



But then, the mood changed, as the manager clearly had something to get off his chest, and he asked for some space. Kenny clearly wanted to put across his side of the long-running conversation regarding his suitability for the job, so here are his words in full.

"Sorry can you all just step back," said the manager.

"The reality is this: this is the way I view it, right? And I don’t mind saying this, right? I am - I’ve never been one to speak about myself like this, in this vein – but I started as a young manager, successful. I failed and then I failed better. I went on again, had setbacks and built a resilience and a determination.

"I have been in 16 cups finals. I was in eight FAI Cup finals. I have been in two Scottish Cup finals. I won six league cups. I won more trophies than anyone in modern history. I won five league titles. 46 Champions League and Europa League games; I beat Maccabi Tel Aviv, BATE Borisov, Gotenburg home and away, Hajduk Split and others, drew with Paris Saint-Germain , drew with Legia Warsaw.


"That’s why I got the job because I am the most successful Irish manager at this time.

"I went on from that, managed the U21 team, got good experience, took the radical approach of taking all these 17-year-olds and putting them in the U21 team, which never happened before. We had an exciting time and were leading the group and might have qualified.

"Obviously, because of Covid, Mick McCarthy is a good manager, a great man, obviously Covid interrupted the succession plan, and I had the play-off and the subsequent Covid games which were a bit of a farce because we had nine or 10 missing out of each camp. We lost the play-off on penalties. It’s been said I’ve been three years in the job.

"Realistically, I have been two years building this team, since March when we lost here [against Luxembourg], and in the opening game in Serbia. All of those players have come in over the last two years. We’ve given 18 players their debut. 18 players their debut through our own system. We’d nine years with nothing through, nothing, we brought 18 players through from the system. We finished third in the group which was probably parity. Obviously, there was a bit of pain, a bad defeat against Luxembourg and so forth.

"This is the campaign that I’ve built for. Obviously we had a right setback with the game against Greece. That was an important part of the plan, to beat Greece, to try to do that because we got sort of a group of death. But I think, you know, I’m very strong and very resilient and I don’t really care. I don’t need to listen to anyone’s opinions to know what I want and what I am.

"I’ve taken on a lot and it’s a small community in Ireland and people are upset over a variety of things but all of the decisions I made with the international team were with the best interests of Irish football. I’ve made brave decisions in the best interests of Irish football, OK? And I’ve made good decisions.

"I have a brilliant backroom staff. Keith Andrews is an outstanding coach, outstanding; John O’Shea has been a brilliant addition; Dean Kiely, these are top-level people; Stephen Rice has graduated and doing a great job, and all of the backroom team. So we will get better, we want to still qualify from this group. I’ll see out until the end of the campaign. I don’t know, after that, it’s other people’s decision. The objective was to qualify from this campaign, that is the objective, I’m not trying to hide from that. I’m not trying to build forever. We’ve been building a team over the past two years to try and qualify here.

"I think we’ve created a very, very vibrant coaching environment. We’ve completely transformed the way the team plays – not in every game – but it’s now assumed that you play that way, in terms of building and playing the way we have.

"We’ve scored a lot of goals, but conceded some that we shouldn’t have. We lost games 2-1 on the margins. I accept criticism for that. We need to win more games. We need to win more games and I know that. That’s how I feel."

It’s been a tough week for Kenny, but nothing compared to previous days in the job, most notably during Covid times, as the manager believes that he is has full confidence in the way that he is currently carrying out his role with the national team.

"No, no, actually, no, the first few months, the whole Covid period, dealing with that, was really, really tough," said Kenny, when asked was this the toughest week of his tenure.

"I can’t tell you how tough that was. Certainly that [this weekend] hasn’t been the toughest period, I know what I’m doing.

"The players are really talented, a progressive, young group, a lot of whom have come through together. There are some great senior pros, not all of them available in this camp, we’ve a couple of injuries but we’ve to get ready, we’ve tough games in September, France is as tough as it gets, in Paris, but we’ve got to get ready, prepare and try and win.

"I wouldn’t have got where I got, into this job, if I didn’t believe you can achieve extraordinary things. The reason I took clubs from nothing, took them through division and into Europa League, because I managed in the group stage of the Europa League, and the reason I done that was because I believe you can achieve extraordinary things. That’s what I believe."

Of the assembled journalists, many had been on this journey, witnessing the highs and lows of Kenny’s managerial career over the past 20 years, so there was an element of preaching to the converted with the solemn soliloquy.

So while there has been criticism about the media’s portrayal of the team and the manager, most recently from captain-for-the-day, James McClean, who said "ideally, we'd love the media on our side", the manager was now using the medium to get his message out to the nation, and perhaps aimed at a range of critics who may not appreciate, in his eyes, the unselfish work that has been done for the benefit of Irish football, as a whole, and not just for the senior side.

To finish, the Kenny was asked why he was making the declaration at this juncture, and asked "why have you reminded us of your CV"?

"Because it just felt right."

[CraftyToePoke]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...374969571.html

You better believe it. Stephen Kenny waves his CV, tells us he's the man.

Your link doesn't include the full speech Snappers I don't think.

[CraftyToePoke]

Actually your talking about wee wee !

My bad

Yes, wee wee Diggs. I wasn't speculating Gavin Bazunu talked his way into Pineapplers gaff on Christmas Day and stuck his bare ass into a roaring hot fireplace at all. Far from it.

[SkStu]

I think it’s quite telling that Pineapple didn’t deny it.

[Colbert Report]

"I have been in 16 cups finals. I was in eight FAI Cup finals. I have been in two Scottish Cup finals. I won six league cups. I won more trophies than anyone in modern history. I won five league titles. 46 Champions League and Europa League games; I beat Maccabi Tel Aviv, BATE Borisov, Gotenburg home and away, Hajduk Split and others, drew with Paris Saint-Germain , drew with Legia Warsaw."

This is just sad to read. I've been in at least sixteen cup finals myself, mostly in co-ed football here in North America, which is where men and women play together and there are no slide tackles allowed. I honestly feel bad for Stephen Kenny. He won't be shamed into quitting. He wants that payoff.

[CraftyToePoke]

I've been in at least sixteen cup finals myself, mostly in co-ed football here in North America, which is where men and women play together and there are no slide tackles allowed.

Anyone pull your hair ?

[Razors left peg]

"I have been in 16 cups finals. I was in eight FAI Cup finals. I have been in two Scottish Cup finals. I won six league cups. I won more trophies than anyone in modern history. I won five league titles. 46 Champions League and Europa League games; I beat Maccabi Tel Aviv, BATE Borisov, Gotenburg home and away, Hajduk Split and others, drew with Paris Saint-Germain , drew with Legia Warsaw."

This is just sad to read. I've been in at least sixteen cup finals myself, mostly in co-ed football here in North America, which is where men and women play together and there are no slide tackles allowed. I honestly feel bad for Stephen Kenny. He won't be shamed into quitting. He wants that payoff.

Fresh off you being warned about continuing to call the LOI a pub league you now compare it to your cute little kick around with your girlfriends. Think you've mentioned before that you live in LA, come on down to Orange County. Decent men's league here, few ex LOI players even playing. I promise there'll be plenty of slide tackles