Stephen Kenny

[pineapple stu]

It really isn't, I don't understand why this is even being argued to be honest.My point is that the players Kerr listed as being left out needed to be left out. He said that Kenny doesn't believe in experience,

But Kerr said that the players Kenny left out of the squad that it "needed to be done", so you can't say Kerr is criticising Kent when he's agreeing with him.

He didn't say Kenny doesn't believe in experience. SkStu has it for me when he says the point is more than Kenny doesn't value experience. Very different to saying he doesn't believe in it.

But the point about Hendrick is fair in response. Egan still seems too young to be "experienced" though I know he's only a year or two younger than Hendrick!

Suggesting Kerr would still have Randolph in nets is a bit silly tbh.

[Insidetherock]

Is there we should be discussing "Kenny v Kerr", or can we not create a second thread and do it over there

This thread should be for discussion about Group B, and what is happening in other Groups that might effect Group B

[Snapshot]

I've no idea what you mean but let me explain my point further. Kerr listed Duffy, Hourihane, Robinson, McGoldrick and Brady as experienced players left out. Kerr thinks we need more experience. Does anyone think we are missing these players? Or was Kenny right to move on.

Apart from the lad who was calling for the return of Jack Charlton and would probably play Duffy as a striker, I think most here are glad we have moves to a younger squad. The "experienced players" left out are deadwood that we are glad we have moved on from

Who called for the return of Jack Charlton? The man is dead, by the way.

[Razors left peg]

Who called for the return of Jack Charlton? The man is dead, by the way.

So is his style of football, some don't want to admit it though

[Snapshot]

So is his style of football, some don't want to admit it though

My call was for a defensive Charlton-style setup against France and not a wholesale return to his mindset. I made no reference whatsoever to Duffy or where he should play. That was your creation, similar to your Hourihane comment for which you were challenged. Ditto your comment on Kerr/Randolph. Also, it's puerile to suggest nil generational change other than with Kenny.

[Razors left peg]

Revert to Big Jack - put them under pressure. Kenny's naive tip-tap equals total disaster.

Right so this was just about the France game and not a wholesale change to our approach going forward. Glad you cleared that up....


Charlton took a little bit of time to implement his mindset, alienating one our greatest ever players in Liam Brady to get what he wanted, it took time but he got results. But you're right, Kenny should throw out everything they have been working on to this point and take an exact opposite approach to how we play in the space of a couple of days.


To get any result against the French we are absolutely going to have to work our balls off, but there's nothing to say we can't try keep hold of the ball a bit and not just lump it forward every time. Especially when we don't have a big target man striker like Charlton had in Quinn or Cascarino.... oh and let's not forget that Jack's style of football even stopped working as effectively after 92 when the back pass rule was implemented and his players couldn't get a breather.


Nesta did a great post on another thread about what we are doing as a footballing nation throughout all levels. I'd rather we continue that than revert back to kick and rush that doesn't even work anymore. I can't imagine anything worse than to sit back and continue to give possession to a team with Mbappe.

[elatedscum]

. I can't imagine anything worse than to sit back and continue to give possession to a team with Mbappe.

All bull**** from certain posters aside, that is the real difficulty tomorrow. The only thing worse than giving Mbappe easy possession is giving him loads of space to exploit. You don’t want to need a Dunne v Russia performance (they come about about once a decade) but at the same time nine times out of ten when you overcommit and come out of your shell, that’s when you’re most vulnerable to the pace and skill of Mbappe, Coman, Muani etc.

Thinking of the premier league, brighton are the only ‘small team’ prepared to go head to head with the big boys, everyone else just stays in a shell for 70 mins, tries to break or get something from a set piece and stay in the game long enough to cause a late upset.

In Ireland’s case - I hope we outwork them, I hope the crowd is lively and plays in our favour (ala Germany and Shane Long). I hope every young player involved has the game of their careers. I hope it’s a blend - you’re never gonna be able to outplay France for 90 mins but, if the footballers play, you can create a handful of chances - which you need to take. Combine that with resolute defending and maybe we have a chance. Ferguson can play. Obafemi’s pace can cause anyone problems (same with Ogbene and Johnstone) - hopefully there’s some creativity from the third midfielder, presumably Knight or Smallbone or McGrath.

There’s a reason we’re 10/1 but at the same time, ya gotta believe…

[Snapshot]

Right so this was just about the France game and not a wholesale change to our approach going forward. Glad you cleared that up....


Charlton took a little bit of time to implement his mindset, alienating one our greatest ever players in Liam Brady to get what he wanted, it took time but he got results. But you're right, Kenny should throw out everything they have been working on to this point and take an exact opposite approach to how we play in the space of a couple of days.


To get any result against the French we are absolutely going to have to work our balls off, but there's nothing to say we can't try keep hold of the ball a bit and not just lump it forward every time. Especially when we don't have a big target man striker like Charlton had in Quinn or Cascarino.... oh and let's not forget that Jack's style of football even stopped working as effectively after 92 when the back pass rule was implemented and his players couldn't get a breather.


Nesta did a great post on another thread about what we are doing as a footballing nation throughout all levels. I'd rather we continue that than revert back to kick and rush that doesn't even work anymore. I can't imagine anything worse than to sit back and continue to give possession to a team with Mbappe.

The comment was in reference to the France game plan (though I agree it's loose). Playing the world's second-best team at their own game would be ludicrous. Nevertheless, I believe we can get a draw, albeit an ugly one, but trying to out-France France would be downright naive. Given the choice - and Kenny's diminished credibility - most fans would prefer such a point rather than a pretty 4-0 defeat. Kenny would too and it would be to his credit.

[Razors left peg]

All bull**** from certain posters aside, that is the real difficulty tomorrow. The only thing worse than giving Mbappe easy possession is giving him loads of space to exploit. You don’t want to need a Dunne v Russia performance (they come about about once a decade) but at the same time nine times out of ten when you overcommit and come out of your shell, that’s when you’re most vulnerable to the pace and skill of Mbappe, Coman, Muani etc.

Thinking of the premier league, brighton are the only ‘small team’ prepared to go head to head with the big boys, everyone else just stays in a shell for 70 mins, tries to break or get something from a set piece and stay in the game long enough to cause a late upset.

In Ireland’s case - I hope we outwork them, I hope the crowd is lively and plays in our favour (ala Germany and Shane Long). I hope every young player involved has the game of their careers. I hope it’s a blend - you’re never gonna be able to outplay France for 90 mins but, if the footballers play, you can create a handful of chances - which you need to take. Combine that with resolute defending and maybe we have a chance. Ferguson can play. Obafemi’s pace can cause anyone problems (same with Ogbene and Johnstone) - hopefully there’s some creativity from the third midfielder, presumably Knight or Smallbone or McGrath.

There’s a reason we’re 10/1 but at the same time, ya gotta believe…

Agreed, there is a balance to be struck and we'll also need some luck along the way too, Kenny is due a bit of that.

Worst case scenario is a total hammering where we are dead before we start in the group. I've convinced myself at this stage we might get something. Portugal in the last group is when we played our best and we do tend to rise to the bigger teams.

I'm looking forward to it now.

[texidub]

we'll also need some luck along the way too, Kenny is due a bit of that.

In fairness, that is true. He hasn't had much luck so far... the opposite, in fact.

Who's the ref? A soft penalty or two for Ireland in each half would be fair, I think

[paul_oshea]

The comment was in reference to the France game plan (though I agree it's loose). Playing the world's second-best team at their own game would be ludicrous. Nevertheless, I believe we can get a draw, albeit an ugly one, but trying to out-France France would be downright naive. Given the choice - and Kenny's diminished credibility - most fans would prefer such a point rather than a pretty 4-0 defeat. Kenny would too and it would be to his credit.

You've hit the nail on the head here. Kenny would bite your hand off for that now so long as it could be portrayed as not having compromised his playing style. All fans would love a draw regardless of what happens. Some might might (secretly) try and convince themselves otherwise but we'd all take that with any style of play.

[texidub]

but we'd all take that with any style of play.

Agreed. I'd argue that in almost any era since the 80s, regardless of the strength or form of the Irish squad, a draw w/ France would be considered a decent result.

[texidub]

Looked up the ref for the craic. Artur Soares from Portugal. In 92 international matches he has awarded 18 penos to home sides and 7 to away sides.

He is more likely to give fouls against the home team though and home team players are TWICE as likely to get a red card as the away team. https://worldreferee.com/referee/artur_soares_dias/

[pineapple stu]

I don't know if those stats really mean anything tbh. Were the decisions correct? If so, then no point worrying about them. There's a higher chance than usual of a red card for us this evening just because we're playing a much better team who can move us around a lot more than, say, Latvia.

[texidub]

Not worried... just thinking about different angles in the pre-match build-up. They don't mean much... but they mean something inasmuch as they indicate that he's a bit harder on home teams. Only indication I would take from it really is for Molumby (and others) to keep their heads on straight with this ref in charge.

[pineapple stu]

but they mean something inasmuch as they indicate that he's a bit harder on home teams.

It doesn't though. If all those decisions are correct, then it just means home teams deserved more red cards in games he was reffing. He could be perfectly fair and still send off no away players.

[Snapshot]

Not worried... just thinking about different angles in the pre-match build-up. They don't mean much... but they mean something inasmuch as they indicate that he's a bit harder on home teams. Only indication I would take from it really is for Molumby (and others) to keep their heads on straight with this ref in charge.

It's definitely a worry that Molumby will dive in and be sent off. Tenacious is good but reckless is stupid. His game accommodates both.

[texidub]

That's a big if, but I take your point. Refs do sometimes get it right.

[tetsujin1979]

Especially when we don't have a big target man striker like Charlton had in Quinn or Cascarino.... oh and let's not forget that Jack's style of football even stopped working as effectively after 92 when the back pass rule was implemented and his players couldn't get a breather

There was a bit more to it than that, the team was aging and he hadn't introduced new players to replace the old guard. The team that faced the Dutch in the play off had an average age of 29, including McGrath at 36 and Aldridge at 37 facing the bulk of the team that had won the Champions League with Ajax seven months earlier

[pineapple stu]

It's definitely a worry that Molumby will dive in and be sent off. Tenacious is good but reckless is stupid. His game accommodates both.

Nothing new there unfortunately. He turned the game against Armenia when he had to be subbed off before being sent off. Hourihane came on and was one of those badly at fault for the opening goal, if not both goals (an aimless cross into the box where we had no-one waiting, and Armenia went up the pitch and scored)

Didn't something similar happen in a friendly, where he was subbed off before being sent off too?

If he can get that out of his game he could be a big player for us, but I don't know if he's managed that yet.