Last edited by backstothewall; 20/11/2020 at 12:14 AM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Here in Southamerica is very usual, politics remarks and videos, or clips to "motivate" in the end it is always 11vs11.
Here with this we have 2 scenarios
1) The english new CEO is angry because of this leaked situation about politics and football is not morally and ethical correct etc
2)They are using this situation to get rid of S.K because they didnt choose him
I think showing a motivational video is more common than you might think. I know when UCD played Slovan Bratislava in the Europa League for example, it's exactly what the manager did. (When we played Dudelange, he used all the social media comments as motivation instead). You wouldn't do it for every league game of course, but for a big game, I don't see the issue. Ultimately these are guys who've gone through the various coaching badges and I would say it's an idea recommended there too.
(I agree with you that Bielsa is talking ****e though)
Last edited by pineapple stu; 20/11/2020 at 7:52 AM.
Since the story broke last night, it has devolved from anti-English political message to a three minute video featuring clips from previous games, and some details from the Easter rising.
It sounds like it was only one member of staff, who is English-born, that was offended by it. No player has made a statement yet.
The bigger story is why it was leaked in the first page, and to the Daily Mail, of all papers.
I see the second most read football article on the Guardian today is a report on this. Headline refers to the "anti-English" nature of the video. https://www.theguardian.com/football...-english-video
This episode is painful in many ways and doesn't help anyone in the FAI or the team.
1) It's a shame with everything going on in the world that we have created a sh*tstorm which serves to augment any negative opinions held in England about us as a people;
2) There must be a lot of people involved in pushing this story. It has taken over a week for this to go from the dressing room to the boardroom;
3) A video about Anglo-Irish relations would be inherently anti-English. That is the inevitable result of colonialism. I would be interested to understand how it has been interpreted as anti-English by some genius somewhere- presenting a set of historic facts would be sufficient to rouse most Irishmen and it would have to take a fairly aggressive narrative or tone on that fact set for the message to move the video towards being offensive.
It sounds like it may have been a naive decision rather than a malicious one. From a motivation perspective, I wouldn't do it personally, but I don't have an inherent issue with something like this being used in a team-talk (assuming it wasn't excessively political). But there are a few questions:
- Would political stuff really motivate players?
- Do the players need motivation for a match vs England?
- Did Kenny not think, "Humm this could backfire if we lose"?
- Would it not have been better to show technical videos showing weaknesses within the English team and how we might exploit them (e.g. poor defence out wide etc, keeper's off form in terms of saving long shots)?
- If this is Kenny's motivational strategy how would it work against non-UK teams? It's a bit one dimensional. What could he show for other opponents? Henry's handball if we play France? A video of Cascarino getting attacked on the pitch in Bursa if we play Turkey?
If it was a very political video then I think it may have been unwise.
Have we created a ****storm?
Or have the English media created it?
Look at yer man MacKenzie on Twitter for example - that's him creating it.
Why doesn't the Guardian mention what RTÉ reports - that of a 3-minute video, there was 2½ minutes of goals from previous Ireland v England games, and 30 seconds of "historical context". That's not, as you say, "a video about Anglo-Irish relations". It's a world apart. It could be 30 seconds of "Ireland unfree shall never be at peace" - harmless stuff which would just get a bit of a gee-up going.
I agree with you though that history can't really be offensive. It is stuff that actually happened.
Why not? Every extra bit helps surely?
You'd never get anything done if you spent the whole time wondering about what someone was going to be offended by.
Why can't you show both? But I can well imagine you finish prep off with something light - one final team-bonding session before heading for the dressing room. Rebel songs on the bus to Stuttgart, or a shout of "We'll do them for yiz today" That's not the time for heavy tactical analysis (which will be recapped in the dressing room)
The Henry handball would be a great one to show before a game against France I think. As I put in the WC qualifying thread (and the topic has seeped into two threads, but best keep it here I think), when UCD played Dudelange in the Europa League, there was print-outs of the various negative social media against UCD in the lead-up to the match. Before the Slovan game, there was a motivational video featuring the players' best contributions during the season (to show them they had earned the right to play against Slovan and shouldn't be overawed by them). This sort of stuff can take many forms. Against the old enemy, then the goals from previous matches sounds perfect, and 30 seconds of "800 years, etc" sounds a fairly harmless addition at the end.
If the English are that offended by history, they probably shouldn't have made it.
(All subject of course to what was actually on the video)
Last edited by pineapple stu; 20/11/2020 at 9:14 AM.
The English started it ! Why didn’t they just stay in England ?
My favourite take on this is from those giving Kenny abuse for doing this 'motivational video' for a meaningless/bounce game against England are the same ones shouting loudest at the 3 -0 defeat and performance.
As Irishmen we dilute our sense of nation by depending on the English to bring us our balls
I thought the performance v England (and most of our performances under Kenny to be fair) was woeful but this is a non-story. I expect it will all blow over by the weekend.
Seems to me 99% of people either have no issue with the video or think it was a bit amateurish at worst.
I have no inherent objections to such things being used as a motivator, as long is there is no straying over into territory we might call "inciting hatred". If pitched right I'm sure they can be useful. It's just it was a friendly in an empty stadium against the England B-team. For that reason I would think a bit much, even, at the risk of sounding harsh, a little pathetic, to be referencing such things ahead of such a match. If it was a do-or-die qualifier or a tournament match, that would be something else.
We're kind of unable to say more of use without knowing exactly what that 30 seconds is, I see all sorts of claims flying around (I'm seeing 1916 referenced a lot, but no concrete details). But if it is, as some think, some reference to England's historical record in Ireland, well, the truth can hurt. Stuff happened. If the English are displeased about it being brought up, well, imagine how the Irish felt at the time.
I mean, we've all experienced/heard stories about crazy things being said in dressing rooms as motivation. It should stay there. For it to be leaked like this is disquieting. "Lost the dressing room" talk isn't far away, and that's a death knell.
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Well it seems it was the Daily Mail who broke the story, presumably because someone leaked it to them. Once that had happened, the FAI couldn't keep it in-house. (And I'm assuming it wasn't someone in the FAI who leaked it of course)
The issue isn't necessarily that someone is going to be offended by it. It's more that it was a potentially naive and ultimately ineffective approach. Stephen Kenny lacks significant high level experience in management, he has looked out of his depth, the idea of showing a political video was risky (other members of the management team apparently tried to dissuade him). Doherty alluded to the players lacking motivation in a post match interview, so the video doesn't seem to have worked. The whole incident looks like it is re-enforcing the idea of an amateurish management approach, making bad decision after bad decision.
For me the tactical stuff, the strengths and weaknesses of our own team, the analysis of the style of play of opposition should come first. If that has all been done and the players are fully attuned to the tactical side, and then, and only then, the manager wants to show what sounds like a Mike Bassett-esque tub-thumping video then OK.Why can't you show both? But I can well imagine you finish prep off with something light - one final team-bonding session before heading for the dressing room.
Agree, as perhaps can be gleaned from my signature. I think a brief mention of this is ok, as it points out a few things (1) we more than matched a world class team away from home relatively recently, (2) we were good enough to have qualified for the world cup, (3) dubious behaviour *on the pitch* by a French player prevented us from reaching the world cup (4) it's not a point about wider political history.The Henry handball would be a great one to show before a game against France I think.
But one problem with this approach is it is only possible versus a handful of teams against whom we have experienced similar issues. What other teams could you do something similar for? Maybe Wales over the Coleman tackle? It doesn't work for that many opponents as there isn't too much on-field history.
I think that's a bit different to this England video. The UCD approach is essentially, "These people don't think you're good enough, prove them wrong". UCD weren't deconstructing Luxembourgish history to motivate the players.When UCD played Dudelange in the Europa League, there was print-outs of the various negative social media against UCD in the lead-up to the match.
Again that is different, it's positive self-based motivation. It doesn't reference anything about the opposition (or political/historical stuff about Slovakia). Arguably it's tactical as well, showing what the players did well, what tactics were most effective etc. I think it would be a sensible and rational approach for any coach to do this.Before the Slovan game, there was a motivational video featuring the players' best contributions during the season (to show them they had earned the right to play against Slovan and shouldn't be overawed by them).
Kenny showing the video was unwise and counter-productive, but I reckon probably inoffensive.
What's more alarming is the jingoistic, old-school anti-Englishness which is evident on this thread, even from some posters who I thought would know better. I'd really thought we'd gone beyond that. Very depressing.
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