Stephen Kenny

[weldoninhio]

If his contract doesn't get renewed I wonder what level he gets his next job at? Scottish premiership or lower end of English Championship?

Not a hope in hell. It'll be Irish league until he decides to retire. No one is going to be headhunting him outside of Ireland.

[weldoninhio]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2023...-off-possibil/

Could get messy yet.

Some pair on him.

Wonder what MickMack would reckon to that.

If he had any love for the national team/country he'd walk. He can't fail to see he is destroying the team.

[John83]

alcohol fuelled sex tourists

I've been looking for a good band name.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Would him being a contender for the Dundalk job whenever it comes up again but too crazy an idea?

[pineapple stu]

I think Dundalk have gone too far backwards for that to be a real option. No Europe next season should reduce their budget further.

[CraftyToePoke]

If he had any love for the national team/country he'd walk. He can't fail to see he is destroying the team.

You should write to him. Strongly worded letter.

I've been looking for a good band name.

You may have it Sir. Use it wisely.

[OwlsFan]

Johnny Giles knew how to manage a football team - and Leeds would have become a dominant European team if Giles had been made manager instead of Clough. With Ireland he took a wide variety of footballing talents from three different divisions, many of them bit-part players, knew how to use them and made them significantly better than the sum of their parts. More importantly - he made them very organised, very difficult to beat and bad luck (and widespread corruption in international football in the 1970s) deprived Ireland of qualification in more than one occasion in this period. In 1976 Ireland came second in a Euros qualifying group with Russia, Turkey and Switzerland, missing qualification by one point - and the Irish team were robbed in Russia. For 1978 we were in a qualify group with France and Bulgaria and were ambushed by a corrupt referee and linesman in Sofia. Ireland dominated the game, had a perfectly good goal ruled out for offside, Bulgaria were given a dodgy goal and Mick Martin and Noel Campbell got sent off in a game where Bulgaria kicked lumps out of the Irish players. This was at a time that only one team qualified - and there were no play-offs or Nations League spots - where international managers might have 3/4 games a year and Giles was also player-manager of West Brom at the same time.

Kenny has had three years where he was set-up for the job and nearly four year in it (with now 37 games - in the 8 years Giles was in charge he had 37 games). But Kenny has done the exact opposite of Giles (and Charlton, McCarthy, Kerr and Trapatoni) - the Irish team is disjointed, disorganised, have no idea what they are supposed to be doing (except pass the ball around between Bazunu and the two central defenders), and have zero fight in them - they couldn't win a punch up with a paper bag - and that is something that even Steve Staunton's team could have done. Now - the Irish squad is not at the standard as previous Irish squads - the Charlton era or the McCarthy 2002 squad - but we are better than being dominated at home by the likes of Greece and being beaten at home by Luxembourg and losing to Armenia - 5 wins in 25 competitive matches - against Azerbaijan, Luxembourg, Scotland, Armenia, and Gibraltar - there hasn't been a worst performance from and Irish team in 100 years - and we have had some really dodgy squads who had an FAI committee selecting the team for the first 50 of those years.

The problem is that the FAI get to also pick the next guy - and we know what the FAI are like.

I think your eyes are a bit rose-tinted when it comes to Giles (are you a Leeds fan ?). In his last job in England I think he failed to win his last 9 games at WBA before he resigned. Giles always liked to resign before he was sacked. His Irish team were not journeyman as you imply. One of the results from that era I remember most is the 0-1 loss in Switzerland where they were fannying around at the back and lost possession and the Swiss scored. The team that day were nearly all first division players

Paddy Roche
Tony Dunne
Paddy Mulligan
Jimmy Holmes
Eoin Hand
Mick Martin
Liam Brady
Johnny Giles
Terry Conroy
Ray Treacy
Don Givens

The crowd didn't like his football. He got some dodgy decisions ok but he was no messiah as a manager as you seem to think. Incidentally he also thinks Kenny's contract should be renewed presumably on the basis that he doesn't play the long ball.

[Calcio Jack]

I think your eyes are a bit rose-tinted when it comes to Giles (are you a Leeds fan ?). In his last job in England I think he failed to win his last 9 games at WBA before he resigned. Giles always liked to resign before he was sacked. His Irish team were not journeyman as you imply. One of the results from that era I remember most is the 0-1 loss in Switzerland where they were fannying around at the back and lost possession and the Swiss scored. The team that day were nearly all first division players

Paddy Roche
Tony Dunne
Paddy Mulligan
Jimmy Holmes
Eoin Hand
Mick Martin
Liam Brady
Johnny Giles
Terry Conroy
Ray Treacy
Don Givens

The crowd didn't like his football. He got some dodgy decisions ok but he was no messiah as a manager as you seem to think. Incidentally he also thinks Kenny's contract should be renewed presumably on the basis that he doesn't play the long ball.

I remember being at Wembley September 1976 - Giles was player manager and we drew 1-1; for me that was like when we beat USSR 3-0 in 1973 another brilliant performance by a Giles managed team and he was light years ahead of Kenny when it came to management ( all based on a style of ball retention rather than lashing it up the pitch , which at the time wasn’t appreciated).

May not of been a Messiah ( albeit would of except for corrupt decisions mentioned previously) , so in my book I’d rate him as best manager since Tuohy was installed as our first manager back in the early 1970s…… and I’d rate Kenny as our worst ( he pips Staunton).

[joey B]

Would him being a contender for the Dundalk job whenever it comes up again but too crazy an idea?

Derry far more likely than Dundalk I’d say,more finances available up there….

[CSAD]

If and when results tonight don't go our way, they pretty much haven't since the beginning of this campaign so I dont envision that changing tonight, and we are officially eliminated tonight I would hope Kenny does the honourable thing and walks away. I have admired what he's tried to do but ultimately area's such as our defence in particular just haven't been good enough and it's quite clear at this stage that he's lost the dressing room also judging by the players body language. He know's as well as anyone he wont be getting a new deal regardless of what happens versus the Dutch next month so maybe the best thing he can do is step away and allow the next manager or potentially caretaker an extra 2 games to try prepare the team for the NL. With that in mind Ireland will have 6-8 games between now and September 2024 which should be enough time to put together some sort of team by the time the NL kicks off.

One other thing to note is the next World Cup qualifying will have 12 teams in each pot rather than 10 meaning Ireland only need to be 24th or higher to get into pot 2, we are currently 26/27th depending weather you count Russia or not, meaning a decent NL campaign might be enough to get us into pot 2 which we will need as judging by our luck with draw's I would rather we avoid any chance's of getting 2 top football nations in our group!

[Paddy Garcia]

I remember being at Wembley September 1976 - Giles was player manager and we drew 1-1; for me that was like when we beat USSR 3-0 in 1973 another brilliant performance by a Giles managed team and he was light years ahead of Kenny when it came to management ( all based on a style of ball retention rather than lashing it up the pitch , which at the time wasn’t appreciated).

May not of been a Messiah ( albeit would of except for corrupt decisions mentioned previously) , so in my book I’d rate him as best manager since Tuohy was installed as our first manager back in the early 1970s…… and I’d rate Kenny as our worst ( he pips Staunton).

My first international - wonderful performance. I recall Highway terrorised them down the wing.

[JR89]

Wonder would he consider coaching roles rather than management. Not sure what his family situation is like (young kids), but outside of a LOI managers job I doubt he'll get another managers job.

[third policeman]

I remember being at Wembley September 1976 - Giles was player manager and we drew 1-1; for me that was like when we beat USSR 3-0 in 1973 another brilliant performance by a Giles managed team and he was light years ahead of Kenny when it came to management ( all based on a style of ball retention rather than lashing it up the pitch , which at the time wasn’t appreciated).

May not of been a Messiah ( albeit would of except for corrupt decisions mentioned previously) , so in my book I’d rate him as best manager since Tuohy was installed as our first manager back in the early 1970s…… and I’d rate Kenny as our worst ( he pips Staunton).

Remember that game as well. He played the team that should have been our preferred starting 11 with Brady, himself and Gerry Daly in midfield, with Heighway, Conroy and Givens up front. Played England off the park. For whatever reason he generally preferred Mick Martin to Daly and Treacy to Conroy around that time. Two functional players generally got the nod ahead of two footballers, which may be a bit of an insight into Giles' pragmatic instincts.

[ontheotherhand]

Derry far more likely than Dundalk I’d say,more finances available up there….

That's where I see him going as well but it probably depends on what happens next season. If Higgins has them top of the league early on then they won't sack him and I'm not sure I see it happening in the off season. I did think they might at one point but they seem to like Higgins up there and the league will be there for them next year. That said, if Higgins is struggling after the first series of games and Kenny is available......

Kenny has strengths that we can hopefully utilize but I'm not sure where. I doubt the FAI will want to keep him on in any role. But who knows what they might do.

He seems a decent skin anyway so I hope he takes some time off and finds a role that's less in the spotlight at some point (just not at Rovers....). This must have been tough on him and his family.

Of course he isn't even gone yet!

[Razors left peg]

If he had any love for the national team/country he'd walk. He can't fail to see he is destroying the team.

At this point he knows he'll never see a paycheck as big as what hes getting again so he has to keep earning!

[CSAD]

At this point he knows he'll never see a paycheck as big as what hes getting again so he has to keep earning!

I don't what logic there is in him staying until next month, he know's there is no chance he's getting a new deal and odds are the play off possibility will be off the table after tonight. Surely it would be better from his perspective to leave on his own terms rather than just being kicked like he will be after next months games?

[CSAD]

That's where I see him going as well but it probably depends on what happens next season. If Higgins has them top of the league early on then they won't sack him and I'm not sure I see it happening in the off season. I did think they might at one point but they seem to like Higgins up there and the league will be there for them next year. That said, if Higgins is struggling after the first series of games and Kenny is available......

Kenny has strengths that we can hopefully utilize but I'm not sure where. I doubt the FAI will want to keep him on in any role. But who knows what they might do.

He seems a decent skin anyway so I hope he takes some time off and finds a role that's less in the spotlight at some point (just not at Rovers....). This must have been tough on him and his family.

Of course he isn't even gone yet!

The thing is I actually would like for him to have a role in the FAI to some degree, just not has the Irish coach.

[Jolly Red Giant]

The problem with your analysis is that you're only looking at tournament winners. It was a far more even period for sure, so you did have winners from a wider range of countries. But the advantage of the coefficient is that it shows a wider range of performances, and in that regard it shows the English league as a whole had more strength in depth.

Your coefficients are utter boll*cks - Wales - with one team that never got beyond the third round of any tournament (3 first rounds and out, and a second round and out) is ranked higher than Spain with 5 teams (including Athletico in the European Cup Final and Real Madrid in the Cup Winners Cup Final) - and 7 places higher than Greece that had 4 teams including Panathinaikos who got to the European Cup Final.

It certainly wasn't the case that every player in the world had an ambition to play in it like the Premier League - though no-one's claiming that - but to play in it was to play in the top league in European football at the time. Ajax and Bayern were great teams, but the English top flight was the best league.

The nature of club contracts pre-Bosman largely prohibited players moving clubs unless the clubs wanted them out. Up to Bosman players were treated like bonded labour.

But if England were the top league then how come they spectacularly failed to break the Dutch and then German dominance of European football until the great Liverpool team of the late 1970s? and how come English team failed to qualify of tournaments throughout the 1970s?

England's non-qualification in that time was remarkable even at the time - in 1978 they won five of their six games but lost to Italy on goal difference, when only one team qualified. 1974 they battered Poland but Tomaszewski wrote himself into the record books. In 1976 they were second behind the eventual champions. These things could happen when only one team qualified; they were still one of the top teams in the world at this time. Barely outside the top ten in the world throughout that period in fact, and mostly in the top five.

Oh - rubbish - 'things could happen when only one team qualified' - well they happened over and over again. You go on about them 'battering' Poland - yet the dye was cast way earlier - when they drew at home against Wales and lost in Poland. England won one game in that qualifying group. And this is where your 'rankings' fall down - England ranked 5th won one game - Ireland, ranked 34th beat France at home and drew with them away. You go on about how unlucky England were in 1978 - Ireland were robbed of qualification but a corrupt referee and linesman (and that was after previously having a perfectly good goal from Frank Stapleton ruled out for offside against France in Paris). The French manager was at the game in Sofia and said "it was impossible to beat Bulgaria with that kind of referee, Ireland were robbed and I saw nothing wrong with Giles' goal." The breakthrough for Irish football should have happened in 1978 - and with the players at his disposal in subsequent years, Giles could have had Ireland qualifying for every tournament throughout the 1980's.

Now all of this is a bit of a sideshow - The Irish teams of the early 1970s punched way above their weight because they had a manager who knew what he was doing and how to get the best out of the players. They were disciplined, organised, they knew how to defend. Giles has famously said football is a simple game - pick your best players and get them to do what they do best. Kenny's team has just as much quality as Giles had in 1974 - but they are disorganised, they lack discipline, they can't defend and Kenny has them trying to do stuff they (at least at this moment) cannot do.

[CraftyToePoke]

Oh, this is gonna be fcukin epic. I predict a four day typing rumble at least.
Pineappler, I am picturing you doing some warm up stretches and would advise a plentiful supply of energy bars.

PM me for odds on the combatants lads, I will take bets on who has the last word here, JRG a slight favourite in the early stages.

[Razors left peg]

I don't what logic there is in him staying until next month, he know's there is no chance he's getting a new deal and odds are the play off possibility will be off the table after tonight. Surely it would be better from his perspective to leave on his own terms rather than just being kicked like he will be after next months games?

Hes not getting a new deal, and I cant remember how much hes on annually, but lets say he makes 600K per year, that would mean a months wages is $50K... for a man whos not a multimillionaire ex footballer thats a lot of money to leave behind if he resigned