Stephen Kenny

**third policeman** · 12/03/2022, 8:43 AM

Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

I was ok with keeping Kenny if it meant Barry was also kept on board. With Barry gone and no replacement, it's crazy to give a new contract to Kenny.

Look, I hope I'm way off but Kenny has shown to me that he doesn't belong close to this level. Without Barry, our rankings were falling off a cliff. It can take years to recover from that.

If Kenny flops without Barry, then we’ll know who to credit for the improvement. If that happens we could always appoint Barry to the top job if he’d take it. We’ll know soon enough in any case.

**Paddy Garcia** · 12/03/2022, 8:54 AM

I still worry about Kenny's judgement. I suspect Barry has made a real difference to recent performances and the improvements.

I could never figure out why Kenny did not include Cullen in the squad (should have made the team) to play Bulgaria. Cullen was man of the match against the same opposition on his debut. Appreciate it subsequently changed with withdrawls.

It was such a terrible lack of judgement, it really knocked my faith in him. Anyway hope the improvement continues.

**paul_oshea** · 12/03/2022, 11:25 AM

We didn’t have our strongest team out but in the second half they had 3-4-2-1 against us and they had Reece James and (Bukayo) Saka as the wing-backs, with (Jadon) Sancho and (Jack) Grealish both flying as their two 10s.

This was interesting to read, Kenny says it like he was forced into this formation but he always played a 4-3-3 or in a similar to the above. I don't quite get what he's saying he was the one who said he didn't prefer and hadn't use(or words to that effect) 3 at the back in a 3-5-2 or similar style formation. So what's he getting at here? The improvements didn't come after that game and there had been none up to that point bar one half decent away performance.

https://m.independent.ie/sport/socce...-41433949.html

**mypost** · 13/03/2022, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA

Absolute disgraceful decision to give Kenny a new contract. Who's the new coach? With Barry gone that appointment is vital. Why offer a contract when that's not sorted?

Pre Anthony Barry, we were a shambles. If we don't get a good coach we'll go back to that again. How long will we have to keep living the fantasy that Kenny is actually capable of managing at anything close to this level?

The demand last time was simple. Beat Luxembourg or go. We beat Luxembourg, so he is still here. It shouldn't be that straight forward but that's what the sceptics demanded, and the win was duly delivered.

Never mind, they'll tell us that he now has 6 more games to keep his job, or how ever many more there are in the NL. That group has already become a sham, with at least 2, possibly 4 games having to be postponed, possibly not rescheduled, so if that is the case, he needs longer than that to make his mark until the end of the qualifiers for the Euros.

**Eirambler** · 13/03/2022, 2:32 PM

That's how football management works I'm afraid. Especially international football management where there are fewer games each season.

Kenny remains under pressure because his managerial record (4 wins in 20, all wins coming against teams outside the top 50 in the world rankings) hasn't been good enough to give him any breathing space. Knocked out in the first game of his Euros playoff, and scraped a distant third in both the last Nations League and the WC qualifiers.

Until we sustained improvement he will remain under pressure and, while we obviously all want the best for him as Ireland manager, if the next Nations League is another poor one where we're closer to Armenia than Scotland (leaving Ukraine out of it for now obviously) then the questions about his future will need to be asked again.

**mypost** · 13/03/2022, 6:38 PM

There has been sustained improvement, with just 1 loss in 10 games. Our win record is poor, but it has been poor for the past 5 years. We have never won a NL game, and we won't win many in the short term. We need to think beyond get out clauses and the next campaign if we want to make long term progress. That starts at the top.

**Snapshot** · 14/03/2022, 9:30 AM

Originally Posted by mypost

There has been sustained improvement, with just 1 loss in 10 games. Our win record is poor, but it has been poor for the past 5 years. We have never won a NL game, and we won't win many in the short term. We need to think beyond get out clauses and the next campaign if we want to make long term progress. That starts at the top.

So you're saying that despite such as Bazunu/Kelleher/Travis, Duffy, Egan, O'Shea, Collins, Coleman, Knight, Cullen, Doherty, Hendrick, Robinson - and a plethora of youngsters touted for good careers - we'll remain NL strugglers against countries ranked similarly? Are you also tossing the Euros qualifiers to the gods of the long-term project?

**Eirambler** · 14/03/2022, 9:41 AM

As long as the bar is always set low enough, failure is impossible.

**John83** · 14/03/2022, 9:45 AM

Originally Posted by Eirambler

As long as the bar is always set low enough, failure is impossible.

I wish my performance review at work was judged on my results in 2028 too.

**paul_oshea** · 14/03/2022, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by John83

I wish my performance review at work was judged on my results in 2028 too.

I've been using this one for a while now, it works and seems to get me constant renewals, all about the long term objectives. Like most good employers they are happy to wait on the longer term goals.

**LurcherLover** · 14/03/2022, 12:47 PM

Haven't been on any social media platforms in a long time but I'd imagine this is what Facebook etc are like? Is this forum just full of wee *****s making snide comments all the time?

**John83** · 14/03/2022, 1:28 PM

If you have a problem with a post, report it.

**mypost** · 14/03/2022, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Snapshot

So you're saying that despite such as Bazunu/Kelleher/Travis, Duffy, Egan, O'Shea, Collins, Coleman, Knight, Cullen, Doherty, Hendrick, Robinson - and a plethora of youngsters touted for good careers - we'll remain NL strugglers against countries ranked similarly? Are you also tossing the Euros qualifiers to the gods of the long-term project?

The NL doesn't matter tbh. If we win the group, it doesn't mean we're off to Germany, and if we finish last, it doesn't mean we'll miss the boat.

Since Trap left, we've endured years of football misery on the pitch and financial mismanagement off it. The man in charge at the time has had his future constantly questioned. What we need now is stability and patience. We're 2 years into a transition project to unravel twenty years of failure and underachievement at international level. Every nation has to go through it at some point. Belgium have done it, Holland have done it, Iceland have done it, Finland have done it, Macedonia have done it, think longer than the next campaign. That's what we need to do.

**Supreme feet** · 14/03/2022, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Snapshot

So you're saying that despite such as Bazunu/Kelleher/Travis, Duffy, Egan, O'Shea, Collins, Coleman, Knight, Cullen, Doherty, Hendrick, Robinson - and a plethora of youngsters touted for good careers - we'll remain NL strugglers against countries ranked similarly? Are you also tossing the Euros qualifiers to the gods of the long-term project?

When Kenny took over, Bazunu, Kelleher, O'Shea, Collins and Knight were uncapped, and Cullen hadn't made a competitive debut. Duffy was woefully out of form. Hendrick hadn't played a half-decent game for us in four years. Robinson had scored one goal in twelve caps. Accomodating Doherty and Coleman in the same team had been beyond both O'Neill and McCarthy.

To add to that, we were still picking the likes of O'Dowda, Curtis, Horgan and Maguire, and hoping for Brady and McCarthy to get back to their best. No-one was calling for the likes of Omobamidele, McGrath or Ogbene to be included in squads, let alone expecting them to add to the team.

Now we're talking about the current lads as a solid, competitive Irish squad, which we should be expecting to qualify for the fourth Euros in our history, and deem anything less as failure.

I suppose Kenny deserves no credit for any of that?

**pineapple stu** · 14/03/2022, 6:56 PM

We've just had our worst qualifying campaign in half a century and aren't in the top 24 sides in UEFA, but we should be expecting to qualify for the Euros?

I don't buy that. Yes, we're improving, but we don't even know how much Barry's departure will affect things.

Hopeful yes. Maybe even quietly confident. But we can't be expectant I think.

**osarusan** · 14/03/2022, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by Supreme feet

Now we're talking about the current lads as a solid, competitive Irish squad, which we should be expecting to qualify for the fourth Euros in our history, and deem anything less as failure.

Who is expecting anything like that?

**Snapshot** · 15/03/2022, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Supreme feet

When Kenny took over, Bazunu, Kelleher, O'Shea, Collins and Knight were uncapped, and Cullen hadn't made a competitive debut. Duffy was woefully out of form. Hendrick hadn't played a half-decent game for us in four years. Robinson had scored one goal in twelve caps. Accomodating Doherty and Coleman in the same team had been beyond both O'Neill and McCarthy.

To add to that, we were still picking the likes of O'Dowda, Curtis, Horgan and Maguire, and hoping for Brady and McCarthy to get back to their best. No-one was calling for the likes of Omobamidele, McGrath or Ogbene to be included in squads, let alone expecting them to add to the team.

Now we're talking about the current lads as a solid, competitive Irish squad, which we should be expecting to qualify for the fourth Euros in our history, and deem anything less as failure.

I suppose Kenny deserves no credit for any of that?

But Kenny himself is talking the talk. He has stated his ambitions for the NL. As for the Euros, is it too much to expect we won't be floored after two games? Also, are we to believe another manager would not have courted a possession-based strategy, would have failed to introduce promising youngsters and would have only two dead-rubber wins over minnows? I sincerely hope SK comes good but an underwhelming NL, in whatever form it takes, would be difficult to defend. But, no doubt, you'll find a way.

**Supreme feet** · 15/03/2022, 6:07 AM

The more unfair criticism of Kenny, as far as I've seen, is based purely on results. 'We didn't push Portugal and Serbia like we should have. That kind of record got Kerr, Stan, Trap and MON sacked, why should it be different for Kenny? Tippy tappy football and bringing in young players is a handy way of getting goodwill from naive fans and media, and escaping accountability for results.' That says to me that a good chunk of our fanbase thinks we should expect to be competitive for the top two places in groups, regardless of how mediocre our players are.

When Kenny took the job, I thought we had the worst playing pool I've ever seen, in my thirty years of following this team. I didn't see any hope at all, apart from the form of the U21s. I was willing to be patient, and take the pain for a couple of years, while Kenny tried to change the culture and personnel, restore some confidence and build some momentum to take into future campaigns, and turn us into a 21st century football team.

That was a huge ask in itself, but it looks, tentatively, like he's done just that. I think the side now looks purposeful, dynamic, and competently coached. Some of the young players have taken very well to international football, we've found a few rough diamonds (Ogbene, McGrath), and the older players (McClean, Hendrick, Doherty) have been played into the kind of form that seemed beyond them in 2020. That's why Kenny's keeping his job.

It's similar to how Mick McCarthy kept his job in 1998 after failing to qualify, losing to Macedonia, drawing at home to Lithuania, etc - because there were signs of improvement and promise, and young players starting to find their feet.

Now, I'm happy to concede that we need to be properly competitive in the next Euros group in order for Kenny to justify the FAI's decision. A playoff for the Euros would be around two years from now - plenty of time for the younger lads to improve further, plug the gaps in the squad, and hopefully find/develop a decent international striker. Slipping up against 4th/5th seeds won't do. Going down meekly in a playoff against a beatable side won't do.

**Eirambler** · 15/03/2022, 6:47 AM

Happy to go with the McCarthy analogy but important to remember that in his second campaign we were something like 13 seconds away from qualifying for a 16 team Euros. That level of performance would easily have qualified us had it been a 24 team competition - we came second in the group. I think that reinforces that the target for Kenny is Euro 2024, no excuses. The Nations League didn't exist in the late 90s of course but will give us a good idea this time of whether we're moving in the right direction or not - I'd say 8 months from now we'll have a fair idea one way or the other.