if mick was kept on and kenny left with the 21s I believe we could have seen two Irish teams in euro finals this summer.Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
our last performance under mick against denmark was probably our best since euro 2016.
i really want kenny to succeed but they is no way another manager such as mick would have been shown the patience kenny has got from the FAI and a lot of fans.
Zero chance Southgate leaves for quite a long time and tbh Carsley isn't a big enough name for the FA to sell to their horrible media and fans
also I think heading into a Euro qualifiers, when we do have somewhat of a chance of qualifying ( third place playoff etc) , I think he would take the job
Anyone associated with the current England setup would need a lobotomy if they even contemplated managing this current Ireland team. Judging by the standards at Euro 2020 and comparing them to our own, it is safe to say we are not at the races - indeed we're still looking for directions on how to get there.
The current Irish team has exactly who they need in charge at the moment, Stephen Kenny - a man who is trying to teach his players how to play the game. It is going to take some time.
"The current Irish team has exactly who they need in charge at the moment, Stephen Kenny - a man who is trying to teach his players how to play the game"
Well that's a quote. @javier you have a competitor
I think it's untrue to suggest that any other new manager would have been sacked by now. Regardless of who took over after Mick, the circumstances have been exceptional and any manager would have been given time (if Mick had stayed on and got the same results, he'd be gone and understandably). The vast majority have acknowledged that the team is at a crossroads, there's a massive gap in player development that has left us with a team of players around 30 and players around 21 with little in the middle. Mick would have had to confront the same issues as Kenny in trying to expand the squad and bring through the under 21s. Kenny has certainly been more radical in his approach than we expect Mick would have been, but that was known when he was appointed. He was appointed on the basis that he would attempt to develop a modern footballing team and with that came a huge risk of a drop in results.
Kenny's mannerism and slightly odd demeanor were highlighted by plenty here as potential challenges, but in the long term if the results improve nobody will care about them. The man has been through both challenging personal times and huge challenges with the team and results, yet he never stops trying to build on the positives and highlighting the qualities of the team. Yes he wants us to keep the ball more when the option is there, but I don't think he's the idealist that people are accusing him of being. We've seen him try different formations, playing out all the time, varying to more direct at times, etc. He has a preference for 4-3-3 with quick wide players and a good busy centre forward, but injuries and Covid have meant he's almost never had the front 3 he'd like so he's made efforts to adapt.
No doubt there's been a couple of shocking performances and results, but there were enough sparks of light in recent games to suggest the message is getting through and the team is adapting to a style that works. Mixing the good old fashioned hustle and bustle with a bit more consideration and love for the ball when the opportunity arises. The back room team has also had it's share of upheaval but the likes of Anthony Barry coming in is only going to improve things there. Any kind of positive performance in the next series of games should be enough for Kenny to see out this campaign, and I'd argue if there's not another major disaster along the way he'll get the next campaign too. I've had my doubts at times, but I'm back to thinking Kenny is probably the right man to see us through this transition.
Tallaght Stadium Regular
The idea that Kenny is trying to get Ireland to play like Barcelona is, frankly, ridiculous. We are still playing with less possession than most of our opponents, we're just building up the pitch a different way.
If this is hyperbole/satire in the style of your favourite tv show then bravo sir. I don't post on this section of the forum much (on account of the state of it) so my apologies if I wasn't clued in on the joke.
Last edited by ontheotherhand; 05/07/2021 at 6:46 PM.
There’s a few lads round here need to take a long, hard look at themselves. I’ve bitten my tongue several times in the last few weeks, since the national anthem nonsense really*, but going after Kenny because he’s bad in the media is a contemptible new low. Especially when in the last interview he was pressed on private matters that are nobody’s bloody business but his own.
I could go after people here for poor quality posts – spelling errors, bad grammar, appalling syntax (I know, I know – one finger points forward, three point back, and I’m far from perfect…) but I’m willing to believe that when it matters – like in our professional lives writing a work email or a presentation that nobody here will ever see – we perform to a higher standard.
Maybe Kenny does, too? It’s not like any of us will ever know, is it?
McCarthy was hardly Abe Lincoln was he?** But he’s quick with a quip and bit of Yorkshire wit – he holds a room and plays the audience well. O’Neill’s pressers were testy and bugger-all was said but he said it well – is that better? It was entertaining anyway. And God knows, we needed entertainment with some of the tripe he served up. Then Trap. Or Manuela, technically – I don’t recall much concern back then that a coach who couldn’t even speak a word of English was manager. Wasn’t that why Tardelli and Brady and the rest were there? Because, you know, we all nodded wisely that it’s the manager’s job to manage, not keep the hacks and the keyboard warriors and the insta-success olé olé brigade happy.
Kenny will live or die by results. That’s the only measure that matters. Unlike an awful lot of people, I won’t be calling for his head just because he hums and haws in interviews.
* Basically: for any craw-thumping patriots wondering why Kenny doesn’t make the players sing Amhrán na BhFiann …
1. He’s not a primary school teacher.
2. The anthem isn’t on the primary school curriculum anyway (unless it’s changed in recent years).
3. The only official version is the English version. When the state bought the copyright in the 1930s, they bought the sheet music and lyrics, which were in English. Amhrán na BhFiann is an unofficial translation.
4. The music we know today was scored by a Prussian colonel in the Army School of Music, Fitz Brase. Because the original score was considered second-rate by politicians and civil servants of the time.
Some people like it today, some don't. Some find it motivates, some don't. Some people like singing in public, some get freaked out by it. I'd rather players were concentrating on their instructions rather than belting out a song that, well, means far less than we think it does. Ambrose Bierce called patriotism the last refuge of the scoundrel. He’d find a few patriots here right enough.
** Although he did start a civil war with a bloke from the south.
Last edited by Eminence Grise; 05/07/2021 at 9:21 PM. Reason: Change of tense. See - not perfect!
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
Funny, with the way football has been analysed to bits looking for any edge, you'd almost imagine there was a right way to approach the anthem. Similar to penalty shootouts and the way the players now all stand arm-in-arm on half way, and players always walk backwards after placing the ball, and take a moment (but not too long) to compose themselves when the ref blows his whistle.
What's the answer to the anthem question?
Get rid of it. Eventually have the players lined up pre-match listening to a continuous loop on ear buds ... I am Pele, I am Pele, I am Pele... But start small... I get paid to do this, I can kick the round yoke five yards to someone in the same jersey six times out of ten... I get paid to do this, I can...
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
Remove the words Fianna Fáil from it = = Yes, I know it means Soldiers of Destiny = = But, thats not what most people understand Fianna Fáil to mean !
Can't agree with getting rid of it. It's harmless. Plus how many great nights in Lansdowne have started with "Seo libh canaig Amhrán MON IRELAND!!!"? I don't mind the players not singing it, although I do look at other countries' players singing theirs and thinking (rightly or wrongly) they're more up for the match as a result.
I agree with Stu. It can really get the crowd going and it must effect the players too. I was lucky enough to be at the rugby in Croke Park against England in 2007 and it really did lift the place. The anthem was song with more gusto than I have heard at any All ireland final I was at. My friend with me at the game enjoyed singing all 3 anthems and got a few funny looks till till they heard his thick nordie accent.
I suppose you can look at the welsh players even the English born ones all sing their anthem. I think Kerr used to get the underage squads to learn it. its a small thing but it would help integrate them
I don't think it's really a stick to beat Kenny with. (There are such sticks, including a fine thick one I call "Luxembourg".) I can recall seeing many an Irish team composed of a majority unwilling or unable to sing it. Again, this isn't a manger's job really. I'd guess it should be the Association's policy setting the tone.
Ritual is important. I don't like the anthem and wouldn't mind if they replaced it with a new anthem*, but dropping it is not going to happen. Other countries seem to do this better. Probably it helps that it's usually in a language their players speak; in that sense, the discussion about how the Welsh handle it was interesting.
*So long as it's not Ireland's Call, which is also a terrible dirge.
Not FF's doing, contrary to popular belief. One version had 'laochra Gael' instead, but O'Rinn's translation, which predates FF by ten years, included the phrase. Ordinarily I wouldn't put it past Dev to copy the phrase and link the party with the anthem, but by 1926 the anthem hadn't been adopted and Let Erin Remember was still being mooted as a potential anthem.
You're much too literal, PS. Those four words don't work shorn of their context, which is the rest of the post.
I happen to like the melody but the lyrics are, meh. Anthems are generally anachronisms anyway, historical and part of the nation-building mythology of countries. So there's a high degree of artificiality, and a lack of contemporary context, in their meaning. Would a second or third generation player understand the context that we've implicitly ascribed to the anthem? Or just mouth the phonetics? If belting out the last line floats people's boats, then there's no harm and maybe a lot of good in it. It fires up the fans anyway and I sometimes wonder if the team roaring the anthem is for the fan's benefit not for any intrinsic camaraderie or will to win it brings.
But we can probably all agree with John that at least it isn't Ireland's Call.
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
Interesting stuff!
I think you're the one shearing context here. He's talking about the climax of the anthem, and the emotional response to it in the stadium. I think that's almost entirely about the context and not the song itself, but then he was reacting to a suggestion of nixing it entirely.You're much too literal, PS. Those four words don't work shorn of their context, which is the rest of the post.
I really don't think you can entirely separate them. The players will react to the sound coming from the fans. They can't help but do so; they're only human.It fires up the fans anyway and I sometimes wonder if the team roaring the anthem is for the fan's benefit not for any intrinsic camaraderie or will to win it brings.
EDIT: Maybe we can get Robbie Keane to sing for his supper by teaching it to the squad.
I think Ireland, Scotland , England and 100% N Ireland should look at changing their national anthems
I love our anthem and flower of Scotland but they are Both anti English songs
God Save the queen is anti Scottish. I just think we need positive anthems not attaching each other. The Welsh anthem is a perfect example of a passionate song that doesn't have a sectarian slant ( I don't think it does anyway)
Go to the valleys and you'll find them speaking welsh, not English. But I often wonder the swiss and many other countries who have many immigrants. They still seem to sing it.
I think His Eminence main point about Kenny has kind of gotten lost with the anthem, overall the point is correct about Kenny and his aural ability and media, although its a big part of it - the job and general communication with stakeholders - attacking the man for these failings doesn't sit too well with me either.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
I actually like that it's in Irish and I'm not really sure what it means in that context.
Rather that than be openly signing about sending her victorious and other stuff.
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