Stephen Kenny

[sbgawa]

Reading so many posts on here, and football in Ireland seems to begin and end with the senior national team. LOI fans with an axe to grind against non LOI fans who they deem too critical, and Liverpool/Man United fans baying for blood because there is no **** up on the continent at a major tournament on the horizon.

Personally, I fall between 2 stools, LOI match goer and follow a team across the water closely also. Having to preface my post with this information is pretty stupid but maybe it gives some context anyway.

My 2 cents are as follows:

We need to forget about qualifying for any major tournament for probably the next 8-12 years. Fans, the FAI etc.. may cry treason, but we need to stop tying all of our eggs up in one basket with the national team. I don't think Stephen Kenny is the standard of manager we should be looking to if we were hoping to be successful in the short or medium term, but thats neither here nor there. People's solution seems to be throwing a million euro at another semi big name, who will hopefully cobble together a squad who will provide a spirited effort and more than likely come up short.

If we are to move forward we simply need to look at the bigger picture for Irish football. Every ounce of investment/resources we have need to be funnelled into development at grass roots in this country. Very simplistic to say our league needs looking at, but if we are to have a model that is sustainable and under our own control then we need some creative solutions about how the game can be developed here properly. We simply need a functioning league where our best young talent play senior league football week in week out. We need to seek the investment to keep them in Ireland (rather than being shipped to England where we roll the dice and hope they develop them for us), but we also need to obviously make it a viable option financially. Private sector investment is the only way to go. Allow our league to become somewhat sustainable in time by attracting proper transfer fees for our best players because there is genuine perception that we develop some quality.
.

This 100%
One of the very few things the FAI got right was the formation of the underage National Leagues.
The structure is there and some money invested in full time coaches would make the difference.
For anyone who wants to see reason for hope i would urge you to pop along to an underage game in the National Leagues and see the way we are playing football there.
The wave of immigration that has manifested itself in Athletics is coming through also in football.
i would say the under 14 and 15 leagues are the best ones to look at as the older 17's and 19's have transitioned through the move to "total football" rather then being indoctrinated since early days.
We will be better then we are now (low bar indeed) over the next few years as the talent comes on stream

[Kingdom]

2011-09-06 Russia 0, Ireland 0

A heroic performance of epic proportions. But we were abysmal.

2011-11-11 Estonia 0, Ireland 4 (playoff)

An excellent performance against a team who were beaten as if they were adopted in the 60s (I was adopted in the 80s), and were happy to commit hari kari.

2013-03-22 Sweden 0, Ireland 0 -

Hmmkay, good one.

2014-10-14 Germany 1, Ireland 1 -

Resolute in defence and went all guns blazing for the final 5 mins. Traditional away performance, untraditional away result.

2015-11-16 Bosnia 1, Ireland 1 (playoff)

- "imitates Gorilla Monsoon voice" would you schtop? is your name Bobby Heenan?

2016-11-12 Austria 0, Ireland 1

- absolutely. A very good performance. A very good result.

2017-10-09 Wales 0, Ireland 1 (eliminated Wales)

- absolutely. I think this is probably the best traditional Irish performance away from home that I've seen. And it was Wales who fancied themselves to do us. And we got the result to boot.

2019-06-07 Denmark 1, Ireland 1

- get off the stage.

Wales
Austria
Portugal
Estonia
Germany / Serbia

[Kingdom]

Reading so many posts on here, and football in Ireland seems to begin and end with the senior national team. LOI fans with an axe to grind against non LOI fans who they deem too critical, and Liverpool/Man United fans baying for blood because there is no **** up on the continent at a major tournament on the horizon.

....

But I digress, in terms of Stephen Kenny, its neither here nor there as to whether he stays or goes. Makes very little difference unless we are tackling the bigger issues facing Irish football, things like contact hours the best young players get in this country (which is a disgrace by the way). But these smaller issues at lower levels (and there are enough of them to add up to huge issues for the game further down the line) are not sexy enough, nor would your casual fan give a flying f*ck when he just wants to book his flight to Euro 2024 so he can take videos of himself drinking cans in some town square where the game is an afterthought.

A great post, and rubber-stamped with sbgawa also. I can trace my interest in English football declining to exact the time my interest in coaching underage at home began.

[brine3]

Wales
Austria
Portugal
Estonia
Germany / Serbia

So you are ranking a loss away to Portugal ahead of a draw away against the World Champions three months after they won the World Cup.

Now, if we had absolutely played Portugal off the park and lost unluckily, then fair enough. But we didn't. It was backs to the wall stuff. 28% possession. "Traditional Irish" as you refer to it. I mean, I certainly wasn't sitting there with 30 minutes to go thinking, yeah, we're gonna close this match out, no bother.

[John83]

I agree wholeheartedly with the posts about the problem starting with domestic football structures. Those structures here are geared to send players to an English system that has changed remarkably in the past couple of decades and started to produce fantastic players for England ... and left us completely behind. That's why we went to Euro 2016 with an ancient team, and that's why we've been on a hiding to nothing since.

That doesn't excuse Kenny. His results are completely unacceptable, even accounting for the challenges he's faced. The only thing keeping him in the job is the FAI's finances (thanks, Delaney!).

[Kingdom]

So you are ranking a loss away to Portugal ahead of a draw away against the World Champions three months after they won the World Cup.

Now, if we had absolutely played Portugal off the park and lost unluckily, then fair enough. But we didn't. It was backs to the wall stuff. 28% possession. "Traditional Irish" as you refer to it. I mean, I certainly wasn't sitting there with 30 minutes to go thinking, yeah, we're gonna close this match out, no bother.

The post after your original refers to performances not results. That's the context - the manager referred to performances himself. We played more football in the 45 mins against Portugal, than we did against Germany, Russia and Denmark combined.
I never said anything about playing anyone off the park. Portugal away was very reminiscent of Amsterdam 2000. It was very similar to what happened to us against Azerbaijan. And it's with the players that were utilised too. Germany away off the top of the head: John O'Shea, Darren Randolph, Jon Walters, Aiden McGeady, Wes Hoolahan, Robbie Brady, Glenn Whelan perhaps?


As for closing the match out - I wouldn't think that's a statement anyone has associated with many Irish senior teams over the past 15 years, so I've no idea why you'd mention that.

[Kingdom]

That doesn't excuse Kenny. His results are completely unacceptable, even accounting for the challenges he's faced. The only thing keeping him in the job is the FAI's finances (thanks, Delaney!).

The reason he's in the job is the FAI's finances and Euro 2020.

[paul_oshea]

Stephen Kenny may have just kept himself in a job to 2022.
The final thirty seconds of the interview I've just heard will probably sway anyone on the fence onto his side.

"that kind of near-sightedness does not create anything. you might beat teams that you should beat, but you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat"

He can say that for as long as he likes. What's near sightedness in terms of timespan in international football? 16 games is definitely coming to the medium term. Would it be fair to say the average career of an international manager is 25-30 games? He and others can bang all the drums he likes but until he starts fashioning results evrryhting else is just soundbites.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Randolph hasn't played for us in a year. He was left out of the current squad precisely because he hasn't been getting game time at club level. McClean was Stoke's Player of the Year in 2019/20. This yeah, he's been released and has had to drop down a division. You seem to think 30+ players exist in a stasis; they really don't.

Yes, Mick lost to Switzerland with that starting three. A 2-goal defeat, which is more than any competitive defeat Kenny has suffered (so far...) He also drew 0-0 in Georgia, who are better than Luxembourg, but not by a huge amount. The signs have been there for a long time that we were getting closer and closer to results like of late. Our scoring rate has fallen off a cliff pretty much since Keane retired. You really can't get away with attacking line-ups of Parrott/Idah/Connolly at international level.

Some players lose form, some players gain form and some players remain at the same standard. As I've said, both McCarthy and Kenny had pluses and minuses but the standard of the squad has remained broadly the same.

Mick's only defeat was away to Switzerland who made the Euro quarter finals only losing to Spain on penalties. He drew away to Denmark, European championship semi finalists and then we battered them at home and were very unlucky to draw. This is the level we were at when Kenny took over. McCarthy had the same issues with a very poor squad and attackers who didn't score goals. It's a clear fact to state that Kenny has taken us backwards and by a long way.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Stephen Kenny may have just kept himself in a job to 2022.
The final thirty seconds of the interview I've just heard will probably sway anyone on the fence onto his side.

"that kind of near-sightedness does not create anything. you might beat teams that you should beat, but you'll never beat the teams you should be striving to beat"

Under Kenny we haven't beaten anyone but Andorra. His embarrassing claims that the team is making progress are laughable. Steve Staunton was at similar craic back in his day.

[Strongbow10]

He can say that for as long as he likes. What's near sightedness in terms of timespan in international football? 16 games is definitely coming to the medium term. Would it be fair to say the average career of an international manager is 25-30 games? He and others can bang all the drums he likes but until he starts fashioning results everyhting else is just soundbites.

Talk of imposing a certain style of football starts from the ground up. Its not the job of a senior international manager who will have a group of senior pros for no more than 2 weeks at a time max.

Always thought talk of "getting it down and playing" was a load of PR rubbish to be honest. The idea that MON/Trap/whoever actively told players not to be positive and pass to each other is bullsh*t.

What happened in the last week is symptomatic of this, we can epouse this positive football argument all we want, but when you have players of a certain level you will have days when they play out of their skin (Portugal), and days when they let you down (Azerbaijan). Consistent high levels of performance are not possible, its really that simple. Hence managers use tactics to negate opposition, mitigate risk etc... in order to maximise the point total. Its not rocket science.

Kenny telling people he didn't enjoy watching the national team, and was seeking to encourage good football is naive, and pandering to the crowd who want to be entertained but also want to go to major tournaments.

Our philosophy at senior level was to cobble together the best XI we could and eek every last drop out of them, there was no joined up thinking with domestic football, our underage setup or the like. Its a case of dipping into the talent pool we sent to England. Changing the philosophy would involve making huge changes at underage level which in time funnell into senior set up, so we are not as top heavy (i.e hiring a semi big name manager on huge money whose only job is getting us to Euros whilst the future of the next generation looks bleak).

Hopefully in time, the rising tide will lift all the boats (youth and senior), and as previous posters put it, the underage national leagues are a huge step forward.

[pineapple stu]

Some players lose form, some players gain form and some players remain at the same standard.

And, which you're still not addressing, some players get old and drop down a division or drop to the bench because they're not as good as they were. That's nothing to do with form.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

And, which you're still not addressing, some players get old and drop down a division or drop to the bench because they're not as good as they were. That's nothing to do with form.

I am addressing it. Some players got older and dropped to the bench, some players improved and got into starting positions, some players remained at the same level. When you weigh all of that up, Kenny has a slightly stronger squad than McCarthy. A big example of that is McCarthy had an over the hill Whelan while Kenny has a youthful Cullen who stepped up the levels.

Like, it's clear you're a big defender of Kenny but the squad strength argument fails because of the record of his predecessor with a squad of similar strength.

[Colbert Report]

I am addressing it. Some players got older and dropped to the bench, some players improved and got into starting positions, some players remained at the same level. When you weigh all of that up, Kenny has a slightly stronger squad than McCarthy. A big example of that is McCarthy had an over the hill Whelan while Kenny has a youthful Cullen who stepped up the levels.

Like, it's clear you're a big defender of Kenny but the squad strength argument fails because of the record of his predecessor with a squad of similar strength.

Whelan's final appearance for Ireland was up there with Paul McGrath vs Italy and Richard Dunne vs Russia.

[backstothewall]

Whelan's final appearance for Ireland was up there with Paul McGrath vs Italy and Richard Dunne vs Russia.

You're going to have to remind me because I literally can't remember anything about it. That alone has me doubting the veracity of the claim but I've been wrong before.

[brine3]

The post after your original refers to performances not results. That's the context - the manager referred to performances himself. We played more football in the 45 mins against Portugal, than we did against Germany, Russia and Denmark combined.
I never said anything about playing anyone off the park. Portugal away was very reminiscent of Amsterdam 2000. It was very similar to what happened to us against Azerbaijan. And it's with the players that were utilised too. Germany away off the top of the head: John O'Shea, Darren Randolph, Jon Walters, Aiden McGeady, Wes Hoolahan, Robbie Brady, Glenn Whelan perhaps?


As for closing the match out - I wouldn't think that's a statement anyone has associated with many Irish senior teams over the past 15 years, so I've no idea why you'd mention that.

I see, so 28% ball possession Vs Portugal is a better performance than 35% Vs Germany.

We were the same old heroic Ireland against Portugal. Backs to the wall. I'm not seeing the progression.

[paul_oshea]

It's because when we broke we looked good, there's a bit of hoodwinking or people genuinely can't see it. I do believe there's a narrative at play now for those wanting Kenny regardless.

[brine3]

Portugal away was very reminiscent of Amsterdam 2000

It was not. I was at that match. We were all over them. They were lucky we only scored the two.

[brine3]

It's because when we broke we looked good, there's a bit of hoodwinking or people genuinely can't see it. I do believe there's a narrative at play now for those wanting Kenny regardless.

We we had a few decent counterattacks. But we've always been good for that, save the final few months of MON, final few months of Trap. But those managers had us breaking well in the beginning of their tenure as well. I mean one of the greatest performances ever was Paris 2009. Under Trap, whose football I generally couldn't stand.

[liamoo11]

Cascarino on matt cooper( what an ape cooper is) saying we should play Duffy up front cause we need a major change in how we play. On that basis I hope Kenny gets to stay for the euro qualifiers to turn things around