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Thread: Stephen Kenny

  1. #961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    Not FF's doing, contrary to popular belief. One version had 'laochra Gael' instead, but O'Rinn's translation, which predates FF by ten years, included the phrase. Ordinarily I wouldn't put it past Dev to copy the phrase and link the party with the anthem, but by 1926 the anthem hadn't been adopted and Let Erin Remember was still being mooted as a potential anthem.



    You're much too literal, PS. Those four words don't work shorn of their context, which is the rest of the post.

    I happen to like the melody but the lyrics are, meh. Anthems are generally anachronisms anyway, historical and part of the nation-building mythology of countries. So there's a high degree of artificiality, and a lack of contemporary context, in their meaning. Would a second or third generation player understand the context that we've implicitly ascribed to the anthem? Or just mouth the phonetics? If belting out the last line floats people's boats, then there's no harm and maybe a lot of good in it. It fires up the fans anyway and I sometimes wonder if the team roaring the anthem is for the fan's benefit not for any intrinsic camaraderie or will to win it brings.

    But we can probably all agree with John that at least it isn't Ireland's Call.
    Future is mapped out in scars. Knowing your history and whats gone before is very important, if your anthem includes that, why worry about the contemporary? Its already a given.
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  3. #962
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    Has Kenny basically three games left to save his job or is it already just a matter of seeing the contract out and goodbye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John83 View Post
    I think you're the one shearing context here.
    No, he asked 'What's the answer to the anthem question?' and I answered with a flippant joke from which he took four words that suggested I had said getting rid of the the anthem.


    Quote Originally Posted by John83 View Post
    I really don't think you can entirely separate them. The players will react to the sound coming from the fans. They can't help but do so; they're only human.
    I agree with that, and I think the anthem is more important to the fans - it's a ritualistic, bonding and performative aspect of fandom. We feel united and that our singing helps the players. But it's not addressing the question we started with pages back of whether the players should sing the anthem.


    Quote Originally Posted by John83 View Post
    EDIT: Maybe we can get Robbie Keane to sing for his supper by teaching it to the squad.
    Ah, hey, c'mon now. We want lads to declare for us.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Future is mapped out in scars. Knowing your history and whats gone before is very important, if your anthem includes that, why worry about the contemporary? Its already a given.

    I do know my history. I've a PhD in it, specificlly exploring the construction and propagation of an artifical identity for the modern Irish state.

    Contrary to popular belief, I do get invited to parties now and again.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
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  7. #965
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    No, he asked 'What's the answer to the anthem question?' and I answered with a flippant joke from which he took four words that suggested I had said getting rid of the the anthem.
    OK, fairy nuff. More fool me for taking your posts seriously!

    But I am slightly surprised there isn't some sort of psychological "right way" to approach the anthem. Maybe it's the case that international football is lower profile than club football, and the anthem is specifically at the former, whereas penalty shoot-outs (for example) are in both, so the psychology of penalties has been well studied but not that of national anthems.

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  9. #966
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    And that is a good point, in fairness. For years I've banged on about the need for a team psychologist, and maybe there's something in the anthem that ties to identity, values, team spirit and so on that a psychologist could draw on as a motivator or for self-belief. Allowing, of course, for players who line out for us because the England call never came and who probably are less motivated by 800 years of oppression set to a good tune than to a boot deal.

    I don't think the anthem itself has any intrinsic value - it is what it is, an innoccuous nationalist marching song adopted by the government only when the people had started using it as a de facto anthem (i.e. when it was politically safe to declare it the anthem!). But maybe there are extrinsic values that could be explored - not what the anthem means literally or figuratively but what the meaning it holds to the fans (and how this is communicated to the players), and to the ten players beside you; or that it could be a mental cue against which tick off your pre-match instructions, or the last sixty seconds to get into the zone.

    Anything that gives us an edge right now would be welcome. Whether that's Amhrán na bhFiann or any other stirring song. I kinda fancy AC/DC Thunder for the shock value. Or just to really confound the opposition, the entire team singing (and doing the moves to) Whigfield's Saturday Night.

    (That's what you get for taking me seriously!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanfhear View Post
    Has Kenny basically three games left to save his job or is it already just a matter of seeing the contract out and goodbye.
    Unless its 3 defeats and 2 heavy I dont see it. There's no appetite for change, I'm also concerned if the people at the FAI are now corporate people moreso than football people.
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
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  12. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    I do know my history. I've a PhD in it, specificlly exploring the construction and propagation of an artifical identity for the modern Irish state.

    Contrary to popular belief, I do get invited to parties now and again.
    But are they popular parties :P
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eminence Grise View Post
    Or just to really confound the opposition, the entire team singing (and doing the moves to) Whigfield's Saturday Night.

    (That's what you get for taking me seriously!)
    I do remember a discussion in a pub in Longford before a UCD game many moons ago where we suggested the anthem should change to "My Lovely Horse", with due care and attention paid to the line "Wait, I can do this bit!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by seanfhear View Post
    Has Kenny basically three games left to save his job or is it already just a matter of seeing the contract out and goodbye.
    Depends whether you choose to read internet forums, or decide look at things objectively, and where we are as a footballing nation after years of neglect and overspend.
    https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.

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  17. #971
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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I do remember a discussion in a pub in Longford before a UCD game many moons ago where we suggested the anthem should change to "My Lovely Horse", with due care and attention paid to the line "Wait, I can do this bit!"

    Sounds like a sure-fire winner to me. Case closed, problem solved. It's a national anthem for the ages.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanfhear View Post
    Has Kenny basically three games left to save his job or is it already just a matter of seeing the contract out and goodbye.
    If he was going to be sacked, he would have been long gone already. We're stuck with him until this time next year when he'll be replaced by another pub league manager, because that's all the FAI can afford.

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    I remember hearing complaints about players not singing the anthem back in the Jack days. Its always been a thing. Even some Irish born players dont sing it. Could be wrong, but I seem to remember Glenn Whelan saying something like he didnt sing it because he was getting his mind right for the match. Not everyone has to be John Hayes bawling his eyes out while singing.

    To blame any manager for the players not singing an anthem is pathetic.

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    The anthems should be an irrelevance really, but they do become part of it.

    I know it's a different sport, but you can see how the Haka, and now the other team's response to it, has become a tool for teams.

    "How will X respond to the Haka?" should be an utter irrelevance when you think about it, but it has been made significant as part of....what...mind games?

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    Speak of the devil - article on RTÉ today about a psychological study of the penalty shoot-out. Includes, among other things, the bits I mentioned above about walking backwards after placing the ball and taking a moment to compose yourself after the ref blows the whistle for the kick to be taken.

    Every World Cup/Euros/Copa America shoot-out since 1976 has been analysed.

    Similar study on the national anthems is pending

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    And what inference can we draw from the Spanish anthem having no lyrics? A way to solve the internal language and identity dividers? There could be an interesting thread here to spin out.
    Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
    - E Tattsyrup.

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    If they had words to belt out at the start last night, maybe they wouldn't have lost.

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    It's Luis Enrique's fault there's no words to the Spanish national anthem.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

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  26. #979
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    The better team lost on penalties.

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    Doesn't matter they passed the ball around and had 70% possession. They'll feel like the real winners on Sunday night.
    I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
    And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
    I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
    Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away

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