Stephen Kenny

[legendz]

Was the board meeting review originally supposed to be next week? With funding being withheld from the FAI, are they utilising Kenny's departure to put up a smokescreen?

[Diggs246]

The national nightmare is over!

[Razors left peg]

Kennys time has come, but Im not celebrating him leaving like I did Trap and O'Neill leaving. They had been far more successful, but they also seemed to have a massive superiority complex and gave the impression that little old Ireland were lucky to have them.

Kenny from the beginning felt like one of us. Everyone on here is passionate about Irish football, and Kenny is the same. His interviews coming into the job laid out a potentially exciting future. He railed against the previous ideas that Irish players couldnt play football and just werent good enough.

It didnt work out, but I still think the core ideas were right and I think we can have a bright future. I'm glad we are now moving on, but for me there is a sadness of how it went.

[Eirambler]

Farewell Stephen. Never before has an Irish manager made so many excuses, or had so many made on his behalf.

He railed against the previous ideas that Irish players couldnt play football and just werent good enough.

He may indeed have railed against that, but he also failed, spectacularly, to demonstrate that he was correct in doing so.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Long past time it has to be said. I turned against Kenny big time after Luxembourg, but the quality of play and lack of goals before then had seriously damaged his reputation. The lowest point for me was Greece away. That was a game we went into full of seemingly high morale, special training camp beforehand, confident of getting a result, and they were so thoroughly outplayed in every section of the field it will be interesting to see in accounts of the future if anyone in the FAI considered the chop then.

It astonishes me he was given as much time, leeway and sympathetic treatment from large swaths of the media that he did in the period since it started to go wrong. It was a never-ending tide of "green shoots", "silver linings", "performance was good, the results will come", and it never got any better. The RTE Sport article this morning literally has "green shoots" in the title still! Ireland were being humiliated at home by the likes of Armenia and pundits were suggesting some slight tweaks in midfield, it was like I was on a drug trip watching it. Any benefit from capping young players is completely negated by the seeding/ranking slippage that Kenny oversaw, and the style of football he attempted to introduce didn't work. The players gave up this year, no matter what some of them are saying publically.

A few sliding doors moments played a big factor, like the shoot-out loss or not holding on for that win in Portugal. But the thing that annoyed me the most was how the goalposts kept being moved. It was "working for the next campaign" until we got to that campaign, botched the opening few games, then back to "working for the next campaign", then an awful draw because our seeding was so dreadful, then "working for the next campaign" again. We started Nations League seasons insisting we were looking to top groups, and by the end if them Kenny's tenure was safe if he could just win his last game, even if it was against the likes of Luxembourg. His tenure has been disastrous, and will take years to recover from. I genuinely struggle to find sympathy for the man: his incompetence was so nakedly apparent by the end, I can't help but think he should have done the responsible thing and resigned long before. The LOI beckons whenever an appropriate vacancy pops up: I genuinely don't think anyone else would have him.

[Diggs246]

Long past time it has to be said. I turned against Kenny big time after Luxembourg, but the quality of play and lack of goals before then had seriously damaged his reputation. The lowest point for me was Greece away. That was a game we went into full of seemingly high morale, special training camp beforehand, confident of getting a result, and they were so thoroughly outplayed in every section of the field it will be interesting to see in accounts of the future if anyone in the FAI considered the chop then.

It astonishes me he was given as much time, leeway and sympathetic treatment from large swaths of the media that he did in the period since it started to go wrong. It was a never-ending tide of "green shoots", "silver linings", "performance was good, the results will come", and it never got any better. The RTE Sport article this morning literally has "green shoots" in the title still! Ireland were being humiliated at home by the likes of Armenia and pundits were suggesting some slight tweaks in midfield, it was like I was on a drug trip watching it. Any benefit from capping young players is completely negated by the seeding/ranking slippage that Kenny oversaw, and the style of football he attempted to introduce didn't work. The players gave up this year, no matter what some of them are saying publically.

A few sliding doors moments played a big factor, like the shoot-out loss or not holding on for that win in Portugal. But the thing that annoyed me the most was how the goalposts kept being moved. It was "working for the next campaign" until we got to that campaign, botched the opening few games, then back to "working for the next campaign", then an awful draw because our seeding was so dreadful, then "working for the next campaign" again. We started Nations League seasons insisting we were looking to top groups, and by the end if them Kenny's tenure was safe if he could just win his last game, even if it was against the likes of Luxembourg. His tenure has been disastrous, and will take years to recover from. I genuinely struggle to find sympathy for the man: his incompetence was so nakedly apparent by the end, I can't help but think he should have done the responsible thing and resigned long before. The LOI beckons whenever an appropriate vacancy pops up: I genuinely don't think anyone else would have him.

You're too kind

[LurcherLover]

You're too kind

And completely factual & correct.

[Diggs246]

Absolutely. It was a good post

[youngirish]

We have witnessed the reign of the poorest Ireland manager by far in living memory. Mick Meagan had a similarly shocking record results wise but he had far fewer games and the quality of the opposition he played back then was generally of a much higher standard. Staunton for all his faults got better results against superior opposition. Good riddance to Kenny. He was out of his depth from day one, took far more money than he deserved and clung on for dear life at the end incessantly splurting out excuse after excuse to justify his failings.

I also don't buy the excuse about the quality of the players. Whilst there are no world beaters (though Ferguson could become one) there are a number of decent Premiership quality players for selection together with some of the better Championship players. Outside the top 6 or 7 teams in Europe its become commonplace to see Championship players in the starting line ups. You would be expecting the next manager to get significantly better results with the same group of players, however due to the damage caused under Kenny's tenure it'll be a long time before we are back in the big time.

[pineapple stu]

Whilst there are no world beaters (though Ferguson could become one) there are a number of decent Premiership quality players together with some of the better Championship players.

Are there?

There's Ferguson obviously. There's Collins, who blows hot and cold for an average team, but we'll count him as decent. There's Kelleher, Omobamidele, Obafemi and Doherty, who don't play. There's Ogbene, Coleman, Egan, Cullen and O'Shea who are already cut adrift at the bottom and who can hardly be called "decent Premiership quality players". And I think that's it.

Whoscored gives match ratings for all the Championship games, and it has eight Irish players in its top 125 players (with nine games or more). Sammie Szmodmics (#16) and Finn Azaz (29) are uncapped. Alan Browne is #21. Luke McNally (33), Mark McGuinness (37) and Kevin Long (73) aren't in the national squad (kept out by Scales, Collins, O'Shea, Egan). And there's Will Smallbone (94) and Mark Sykes (120), and again I think that's it.

Technically I suppose that does mean we have "some of the better Championship players", and match ratings (like anything else I guess) are an inexact science. But in reality we have to acknowledge there's an awful lot of bog-average to poor Championship players in our squad. There's more Irish players (and more caps) in the bottom 100 - Springett, Hogan, Kelly, Armstrong, Molumby, Christie, Emakhu, Brady, Bazunu, Connolly, Robinson.

That said, I do think we can do better than we have been doing the last three years.

[zero]

Are there?

There's Ferguson obviously. There's Collins, who blows hot and cold for an average team, but we'll count him as decent. There's Kelleher, Omobamidele, Obafemi and Doherty, who don't play. There's Ogbene, Coleman, Egan, Cullen and O'Shea who are already cut adrift at the bottom and who can hardly be called "decent Premiership quality players". And I think that's it.

Whoscored gives match ratings for all the Championship games, and it has eight Irish players in its top 125 players (with nine games or more). Sammie Szmodmics (#16) and Finn Azaz (29) are uncapped. Alan Browne is #21. Luke McNally (33), Mark McGuinness (37) and Kevin Long (73) aren't in the national squad (kept out by Scales, Collins, O'Shea, Egan). And there's Will Smallbone (94) and Mark Sykes (120), and again I think that's it.

Technically I suppose that does mean we have "some of the better Championship players", and match ratings (like anything else I guess) are an inexact science. But in reality we have to acknowledge there's an awful lot of bog-average to poor Championship players in our squad. There's more Irish players (and more caps) in the bottom 100 - Springett, Hogan, Kelly, Armstrong, Molumby, Christie, Emakhu, Brady, Bazunu, Connolly, Robinson.

That said, I do think we can do better than we have been doing the last three years.

My feeling is the squad is around the same quality as Mick had to work with. Here's the lineup vs Denmark in the 1-1:

Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Whelan, Browne, Hendrick, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick

You could argue Doherty and possibly Duffy were in better form then, but the rest I am not sure about. Cullen plays the Whelan role, you could argue that's a downgrade but Whelan was 35 or 36 at this stage. I'd rather Knight and Molumby over Hendrick and Hourihane, and Bazunu and Ferguson just ahead of Randolph and McG. Plus Chieo in the form he is in would make the above side. Anyway, you could argue individual merits but overall the standard is roughly similar on average, in my opinion.

[JR89]

That was a game we went into full of seemingly high morale, special training camp beforehand, confident of getting a result, and they were so thoroughly outplayed in every section of the field it will be interesting to see in accounts of the future if anyone in the FAI considered the chop then.

Somewhat sure there was some talk that the people in the FAI were all for it but Canham and Hill talked them around doing it in June because of the women's team preparing for the WC. Then again it might have been Gavin Cummiskey that talked about it and he was the one that was also saying the FAI were gonna move Kenny on after Septembers games.

[pineapple stu]

My feeling is the squad is around the same quality as Mick had to work with. Here's the lineup vs Denmark in the 1-1:

Randolph, Doherty, Duffy, Egan, Stevens, Whelan, Browne, Hendrick, Hourihane, McClean, McGoldrick

You could argue Doherty and possibly Duffy were in better form then, but the rest I am not sure about. Cullen plays the Whelan role, you could argue that's a downgrade but Whelan was 35 or 36 at this stage. I'd rather Knight and Molumby over Hendrick and Hourihane, and Bazunu and Ferguson just ahead of Randolph and McG. Plus Chieo in the form he is in would make the above side. Anyway, you could argue individual merits but overall the standard is roughly similar on average, in my opinion.

I don't know - I think midfield is our weakest area at the moment so I'm not sure you could have the three current midfielders in there, even allowing for current coaching/setup/not playing to our strengths.

I'd have 2019 Hendrick (a solid Premier player; played in Europe with Burnley the previous season) over any of the current three. Cullen over Whelan I think because (as you say) Whelan was 35 and moving down the leagues. Molumby/Knight v Hourihane - bit meh on all of them. Call it a draw overall? 1½-1½ each?

2019 was much better at full/wing-back but 2023 is much better in the main striker. 2019 shades keeper and centre-half for me, but 2023 shades the supporting attacker roles. 2019 had experience but no youth; 2023 has youth but no experience. Both bad, but 2023 is easier to fix at least.

I think we're still slightly weaker than 2019, even with Ferguson being the biggest difference between the two sides - but that's not hugely different to what you're saying in the end of the day.

I do think though there's too many of the younger players who've not kicked on in the last three years and that needs to change. Parrott is the obvious one - and maybe Armstrong/Moran/Azaz/Szmodmics whoever will just take his place in the squad in the next year or two. But there's lots of others - Knight, Molumby, Idah, Omobamidele, Cullen, Obafemi, even Bazunu/Kelleher - who aren't where we might have thought they'd be three years ago. I don't really know why there's so many. Could also add Joe Hodge or Conor Coventry, as blasts from the past. I'm not sure what a new manager can do about that. If the players can kick on at club level, then we could be doing alright in a couple of years.

But I would still expect us to be doing better - we should at the very least be putting it up to Greece...

[Insidetherock]

Long past time it has to be said. I turned against Kenny big time after Luxembourg, but the quality of play and lack of goals before then had seriously damaged his reputation. The lowest point for me was Greece away. That was a game we went into full of seemingly high morale, special training camp beforehand, confident of getting a result, and they were so thoroughly outplayed in every section of the field it will be interesting to see in accounts of the future if anyone in the FAI considered the chop then.

It astonishes me he was given as much time, leeway and sympathetic treatment from large swaths of the media that he did in the period since it started to go wrong. It was a never-ending tide of "green shoots", "silver linings", "performance was good, the results will come", and it never got any better. The RTE Sport article this morning literally has "green shoots" in the title still! Ireland were being humiliated at home by the likes of Armenia and pundits were suggesting some slight tweaks in midfield, it was like I was on a drug trip watching it. Any benefit from capping young players is completely negated by the seeding/ranking slippage that Kenny oversaw, and the style of football he attempted to introduce didn't work. The players gave up this year, no matter what some of them are saying publically.

A few sliding doors moments played a big factor, like the shoot-out loss or not holding on for that win in Portugal. But the thing that annoyed me the most was how the goalposts kept being moved. It was "working for the next campaign" until we got to that campaign, botched the opening few games, then back to "working for the next campaign", then an awful draw because our seeding was so dreadful, then "working for the next campaign" again. We started Nations League seasons insisting we were looking to top groups, and by the end if them Kenny's tenure was safe if he could just win his last game, even if it was against the likes of Luxembourg. His tenure has been disastrous, and will take years to recover from. I genuinely struggle to find sympathy for the man: his incompetence was so nakedly apparent by the end, I can't help but think he should have done the responsible thing and resigned long before. The LOI beckons whenever an appropriate vacancy pops up: I genuinely don't think anyone else would have him.

The whole seeding thing is over blown, and anyone who thinks otherwise, doesn't understand how seeding works.

Seeding is now done on Nations League ranking

The first 16 in the A path, take up 10 Pot 1, 6 Pot 2 places...

The 4 winners of the B path, take up the last 4 Pot 2 places...

So, unless we won our Path B group.. which is 3rd seeds going in, would have meant way out performing our ranking.. our seeding got no better or no worse.

We however were unbelievably unlucky with the draw

Holland were actually the top ranked Pot 1 team

France were the best team in Pot 2

Greece were the second best team in Pot 4

[youngirish]

Are there?

There's Ferguson obviously. There's Collins, who blows hot and cold for an average team, but we'll count him as decent. There's Kelleher, Omobamidele, Obafemi and Doherty, who don't play. There's Ogbene, Coleman, Egan, Cullen and O'Shea who are already cut adrift at the bottom and who can hardly be called "decent Premiership quality players". And I think that's it.

Whoscored gives match ratings for all the Championship games, and it has eight Irish players in its top 125 players (with nine games or more). Sammie Szmodmics (#16) and Finn Azaz (29) are uncapped. Alan Browne is #21. Luke McNally (33), Mark McGuinness (37) and Kevin Long (73) aren't in the national squad (kept out by Scales, Collins, O'Shea, Egan). And there's Will Smallbone (94) and Mark Sykes (120), and again I think that's it.

Technically I suppose that does mean we have "some of the better Championship players", and match ratings (like anything else I guess) are an inexact science. But in reality we have to acknowledge there's an awful lot of bog-average to poor Championship players in our squad. There's more Irish players (and more caps) in the bottom 100 - Springett, Hogan, Kelly, Armstrong, Molumby, Christie, Emakhu, Brady, Bazunu, Connolly, Robinson.

That said, I do think we can do better than we have been doing the last three years.

That's fair enough and maybe we are worse off than suggested but I would argue that McCarthy had poorer players overall with an aging Whelan, Hourihane, McGoldrick (who was decent but no Ferguson), Maguire, McClean, Stevens and Richard Keogh all regularly making appearances for him. All in reality were only Championship level at best.

[Eirambler]

Isn't World Cup qualification seeding done based on the FIFA world rankings? Where we've absolutely tanked under Stephen Kenny?

[JR89]

This months rankings haven't been updated yet but as of last month we're ranked 28th amongst the UEFA teams. Now that the qualifiers will be 12 groups we gotta be outside the top 36 to drop to 4th seeds.

Not sure when the draw is done but a good NLs could see us get into the top 24 and second seeds.

[JR89]

Just to add when Kenny took over we were ranked 20th amongst the UEFA teams. So we were ranked as second seeds before the NLs and think it was mentioned had we won one match in that NL campaign three years ago we'd have been second seeds for the WC qualifiers.

[Eirambler]

Given that there will be 12 groups it would be pretty appalling not to be second seeds. We really do have a bit of a mountain to climb to undo the damage that's been done on that score.

[JR89]

Given that there will be 12 groups it would be pretty appalling not to be second seeds. We really do have a bit of a mountain to climb to undo the damage that's been done on that score.

At the end of 2022 we were the 24th ranked team in UEFA.