Stephen Kenny

[elatedscum]

Would it not be fair to say the atmosphere from us was dire, because our team was dire.

Unfortunately under Stephen poor performances isn't weird

I don't think so. The atmosphere was an outlier compared to every other full capacity home game, good performances and bad. This was unique. The atmosphere in the game against Lithuania was much better for example, despite us being 0-0 till extra time.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

It is worth noting that Ukraine have Mudryk who Chelsea just bought for £95m, Zabarnyi who Bournemouth just bought for £24m as a 20 year old, Zinchenko who cost Arsenal £30m and Mykolenko who was a steal for Everton at £17m. They also have Lunin, Yarmalenko, Stepanenko, Shaparenko - all quality. There’s not many Irish players that would get into their team and there’s not a god given right to finish above them.

it still had Mudryk, Mykolenko, Sharapenko and Lunin - it was a weird night.

I genuinely think the FAI giving 2000 tickets to the ukraine fans, plus the other however many thousand ukraine fans were in the stadium really changed things (i know my section was about 50/50 irish ukraine - and that wasn't the block where they gave 2000 tickets). It genuinely felt like an away game. There was so much positivity towards Ukraine - the ukraine fans were louder, screaming and chanting the whole way through and we were just dead - there was absolutely no atmosphere from us.

I don't think so. The atmosphere was an outlier compared to every other full capacity home game, good performances and bad. This was unique. The atmosphere in the game against Lithuania was much better for example, despite us being 0-0 till extra time.

Ukraine had all those players yet Scotland came ahead of them. Or are we adding Scotland to the list of teams we can't compete against now? It's also worth noting that we didn't just come behind Scotland and Ukraine, we were in a battle with Armenia to see who comes bottom. How much was our squad worth compared with theirs?

And then poor Kenny had to play a match that had away supporters at it. Really laughable excuses. Kenny's stated aim was to win the group with Scotland and Ukraine. He failed miserably and that has left us in a really bad spot in terms of a 50/50 shot in even getting to a playoff.

[nigel-harps1954]

Not many managers have had the opportunity of 2/3 failed campaigns and then still leading into the next one. I think he'd be very lucky to have that opportunity. But I really dont trust the current FAI board. Money people not football people.

WC 98, Euro 2000..

[elatedscum]

Ukraine had all those players yet Scotland came ahead of them. Or are we adding Scotland to the list of teams we can't compete against now?

Nah, I mean, we beat them 3-0 (and lost 2-1) - but would you agree that Andy Robertson is a better footballer than anyone we have?

[liamoo11]

Nah, I mean, we beat them 3-0 (and lost 2-1) - but would you agree that Andy Robertson is a better footballer than anyone we have?

That's the whole point of been a good international manager though is taking the players yiou have playing a style that suits those players(not your own philosophy as you don't have loads of time with the players like in club football) and creating a unit that can beat teams that have better players than you in one off games. That's what Kenny needs to show us in the next campaign.

[BOOMSHAKALAKA]

Nah, I mean, we beat them 3-0 (and lost 2-1) - but would you agree that Andy Robertson is a better footballer than anyone we have?

You missed the rest of my post:

Ukraine had all those players yet Scotland came ahead of them. Or are we adding Scotland to the list of teams we can't compete against now? It's also worth noting that we didn't just come behind Scotland and Ukraine, we were in a battle with Armenia to see who comes bottom. How much was our squad worth compared with theirs?

And then poor Kenny had to play a match that had away supporters at it. Really laughable excuses. Kenny's stated aim was to win the group with Scotland and Ukraine. He failed miserably and that has left us in a really bad spot in terms of a 50/50 shot in even getting to a playoff.

How did Scotland come ahead of Ukraine? How much is our squad compared with Armenia's? We're back to Luxembourg had 1 player who played in the champions league type excuses.

[Eirambler]

WC 98, Euro 2000..

Second in the group, second in the group and lost the playoff on away goals. If Kenny was delivering those results there wouldn't be an issue.

That's the whole point of been a good international manager though is taking the players yiou have playing a style that suits those players(not your own philosophy as you don't have loads of time with the players like in club football) and creating a unit that can beat teams that have better players than you in one off games. That's what Kenny needs to show us in the next campaign.

This is basically the whole problem with Kenny as Ireland manager and why he won't succeed summed up in a single post.

[mypost]

That's the whole point of been a good international manager though is taking the players yiou have playing a style that suits those players(not your own philosophy as you don't have loads of time with the players like in club football) and creating a unit that can beat teams that have better players than you in one off games. That's what Kenny needs to show us in the next campaign.

What's the point of a manager if he doesn't have the right to have his players play to his style? Ok, if it fails, so be it. But if he doesn't even have the right to play his way, then you could have anyone in the dugout and it wouldn't make any difference.

Second in the group, second in the group and lost the playoff on away goals. If Kenny was delivering those results there wouldn't be an issue.

Yes it would, because we didn't qualify. For far too many fans of this team, there's no such thing as progress, or transition. It's either you qualify or you get the sack. It doesn't work.

[Eirambler]

The only reason there's no such thing as progress with Ireland fans is because there has been no progress. We have consistently been out of contention in every group from an early stage. The excuse of throwing the young lads in was fine two years ago, it isn't now.

And the reality is that, if a manager tries to implement a style on a group of players that they are not able to play to a high standard, failure is inevitable. In club management a manager might be lucky enough to be given time to build the team he wants (not always). In international management the skill is to get the best from the players that are available to you. It's a skill that not all managers have, we know now that Kenny doesn't have it.

If he wants to build a team to suit his own playing style he should go back to club football management. If he feels he has done all he can in Ireland there will be clubs in the National League in England, or maybe even at the lower end of League 2, that may take a punt on him if they are willing to put his terrible record in senior international management to one side and focus on some of his better work at club level.

[mypost]

The only reason there's no such thing as progress with Ireland fans is because there has been no progress. We have consistently been out of contention in every group from an early stage. The excuse of throwing the young lads in was fine two years ago, it isn't now.

And the reality is that, if a manager tries to implement a style on a group of players that they are not able to play to a high standard, failure is inevitable. In club management a manager might be lucky enough to be given time to build the team he wants (not always). In international management the skill is to get the best from the players that are available to you. It's a skill that not all managers have, we know now that Kenny doesn't have it.

If he wants to build a team to suit his own playing style he should go back to club football management. If he feels he has done all he can in Ireland there will be clubs in the National League in England, or maybe even at the lower end of League 2, that may take a punt on him if they are willing to put his terrible record in senior international management to one side and focus on some of his better work at club level.

Progress is long term work. It's not defined by a qualifying campaign. We got to the Euros in 2012. Did we make any progress, short or long term as a result? Not really. We got to the next Euros. With qualification in our own hands 18 months later, we were getting battered at home by Denmark.

Jack had his way of playing, you adapted or you stayed at home. If it didn't suit the Brady's and O'Learys in the team, it was their loss. The manager has to be given the chance to say this is his team, his players, his tactics, and his belief on how we play the game. Hoping to get a manager sacked after winning games at home, as has happened in the past year, is not progress and not a vision. It's an embarrassing campaign by people who are not prepared to give the manager an inch, let alone a chance to turn us from the also rans we are to a team worthy of a place at the top table of world football.

[pineapple stu]

Do you think it's progress to go from losing to Luxembourg in 2020 to losing to Armenia in 2022?

To go from barely scraping past Lithuania in early 2021 to barely scraping past Malta in late 2022?

To go from being in relegation trouble in the Nations League into the last five minutes of the 2020 campaign (when a Bulgaria goal would have relegated us) to being in relegation trouble in the Nations League into the last five minutes of the 2022 campaign (when an Armenia goal before the late penalty would have relegated us)?

There's nothing embarrassing at all about the criticism Kenny is getting.

[Jd2793]

had all my eggs in the kenny basket up until recently. his gutless selections and subs against malta have soured me on the whole thing. didnt mind the poor results and have defended a few of them on here but malta showed me he is scared. we wont go anywhere fast under a new manager either but the cult like talk around 'progress" under kenny is wearing me down. the 3-5-2 / 3-4-1-2 has proven to to TURGID against poorer opposition but SK sticks with it. these are grown up professionals, they are capable enough to deal with a formation switch. kenny better not treat that latvia game like a qualifier.

[liamoo11]

What's the point of a manager if he doesn't have the right to have his players play to his style? Ok, if it fails, so be it. But if he doesn't even have the right to play his way, then you could have anyone in the dugout and it wouldn't make any difference.



Yes it would, because we didn't qualify. For far too many fans of this team, there's no such thing as progress, or transition. It's either you qualify or you get the sack. It doesn't work.

His job is to look at what he has and make the best strategy he can ro win games. If he wants a philosophy go be a director of coaching and put the fundamental s in.place from under 6s. He didn't leave a legacy in the dundalk underage academy for all the talk of philosophy

[liamoo11]

What's the point of a manager if he doesn't have the right to have his players play to his style? Ok, if it fails, so be it. But if he doesn't even have the right to play his way, then you could have anyone in the dugout and it wouldn't make any difference.



Yes it would, because we didn't qualify. For far too many fans of this team, there's no such thing as progress, or transition. It's either you qualify or you get the sack. It doesn't work.

The ireland International managers job isn't about someone having as you say the " right" to do what he wants. You have though summed up the arrogance of Kenny which comes across so evidently when he speaks with the use of that phrase " right" . He has shown such a sense of entitlement senile before he got the job and since he has been in it. It's fitting that the whole sordid mess of him been preordained senior manager was one of the last major acts of John delany s reign ,

[liamoo11]

What's the point of a manager if he doesn't have the right to have his players play to his style? Ok, if it fails, so be it. But if he doesn't even have the right to play his way, then you could have anyone in the dugout and it wouldn't make any difference.



Yes it would, because we didn't qualify. For far too many fans of this team, there's no such thing as progress, or transition. It's either you qualify or you get the sack. It doesn't work.

The so be it part of your post is he has fails and if he doesn't qualify for the euros then he will have failed again . So be it he will then have to go from his massively overpaid role. I would be amazed if there were options for him above league of Ireland or league 1 level if that happened

[SkStu]

Do you think it's progress to go from losing to Luxembourg in 2020 to losing to Armenia in 2022?

To go from barely scraping past Lithuania in early 2021 to barely scraping past Malta in late 2022?

To go from being in relegation trouble in the Nations League into the last five minutes of the 2020 campaign (when a Bulgaria goal would have relegated us) to being in relegation trouble in the Nations League into the last five minutes of the 2022 campaign (when an Armenia goal before the late penalty would have relegated us)?

There's nothing embarrassing at all about the criticism Kenny is getting.

Certainly not the recent criticism, agree there, and I'm more or less in the same boat as Jd2793 sets out.

However, the knives came out - and heavily so from some quarters - ridiculously early. It was "embarrassing" (not sure if that's the right word) that the first moment of failure to qualify for a fan jolly-up led to so many calls for his sacking. There appeared to be a fairly significant minority with an agenda who weren't willing to give him any room for failure or growth. It seemed really petty at the time.

[mypost]

Do you think it's progress to go from losing to Luxembourg in 2020 to losing to Armenia in 2022?

To go from barely scraping past Lithuania in early 2021 to barely scraping past Malta in late 2022?

To go from being in relegation trouble in the Nations League into the last five minutes of the 2020 campaign (when a Bulgaria goal would have relegated us) to being in relegation trouble in the Nations League into the last five minutes of the 2022 campaign (when an Armenia goal before the late penalty would have relegated us)?

There's nothing embarrassing at all about the criticism Kenny is getting.

If we're in the results business, as you like to tell us above, then barely scraping past teams is irrelevant. The result in the results business is what counts.

Last year, we went from a team that couldn't win a home game for years, into a side capable of thrashing the group winners 3-0 at home, and collecting our highest amount of points in the NL to date.

And as for relegation trouble, it's nothing to panic over. France and England were dumped down into our league for the next campaign. The former had a feeble defence of the trophy, the latter lost 4-0 at home and were booed off the pitch. Germany lost a game 6-0 some years back. What did they do? Sack the man in charge? No. Yet there we are, spitting blood because it took a while to beat Armenia at home. And Lithuania at home. And Malta away.

The last 20 years has told us that we're never going to get anywhere while we're fixated with individual games and qualifying campaigns. This team is a work in progress, that means results have to take a backseat while the work is going on.

[pineapple stu]

The highest amount of points in the NL we've gotten to date? Bloody heck, you do spin some nonsense. Like, well done us on winning a game for the first time ever. Against the weakest side we've ever played in the competition. Who still beat us away from home.

Scraping past teams is absolutely relevant in judging whether this progress you talk of is actually being made. I thought it was at the start - in fits and coughs, sure, but you could see there was an attempt to change things for the better - but when we're 2½ years in and we're utterly toothless against Malta away, then you wonder what on earth it would take for you to acknowledge that progress wasn't being made.

France and England didn't sack their managers because they reached the final of recent major tournaments. Southgate and Deschamps had earned a bad campaign. Kenny, unfortunately, has only had bad campaigns.

[texidub]

senile before he got the job

In fairness, you'd have to be a bit senile to take the job in the first place

[texidub]

I'll be lambasted for this, and Kenny blamed, but I am not as hung up on results as I was say 3 years ago. I have freed myself from the tyranny and pain of expecting to Ireland to win and am treating it more as entertainment than anything else. Must be long covid or something, but it's working so far.