Stephen Kenny

**lofty9** · 14/10/2022, 8:46 AM

Originally Posted by sadloserkid

I think this would be a very good return with 14 points. I think anything less than 11 points (6 from Gibraltar, 3 from Greece and 2 combined from the big two maybe?) would be fairly described as lousy.

The Foot.ie bar is then:
Very Good 14+
Good 13
Ok 12
Lousy 11 or below

**pineapple stu** · 14/10/2022, 8:51 AM

Can we add in a bare minimum of 10?

6 from Gibraltar
3 from Greece
1 from somewhere else

**tetsujin1979** · 14/10/2022, 8:55 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Can we add in a bare minimum of 10?

6 from Gibraltar
3 from Greece
1 from somewhere else

Minimum of four from Greece, they were seeded below us, we shouldn't be losing to them

**Real ale Madrid** · 14/10/2022, 9:01 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

We need to finish ahead of France or Holland for him to keep his job?

No we don't.

We need to qualify for the tournament surely for Kenny to keep his job - either via the group ( almost impossible ) or the playoffs ( possibly a route that will not be available to us )

If we don't qualify then I don't see his contract being renewed.

**sbgawa** · 14/10/2022, 9:17 AM

Unless the FAI find a big bag of money in a closet in Abbotstown (They cant even get a decent sponsor for the mens team) he could be in the job for a long time to come as he is affordable for them.
We could not qualify from the group and then be told it was alwayhs impossible, a bare minimum showing will suffice

**osarusan** · 14/10/2022, 9:58 AM

Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid

We need to qualify for the tournament surely for Kenny to keep his job - either via the group ( almost impossible ) or the playoffs ( possibly a route that will not be available to us )

If we don't qualify then I don't see his contract being renewed.

Seriously?

I'm very much a 'Kenny out' man but that's a crazily high bar. Picking up any points against Netherlands and France would be decent. Even 4 losses is not automatic sacking stuff, unless they are horrendous performances and goal-fests against us.

It's much more about what we show against Greece (assuming we dismiss Gibraltaer home and away).

**John83** · 14/10/2022, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Minimum of four from Greece, they were seeded below us, we shouldn't be losing to them

I hate to give Kenny fanbois a straw to grasp when we finish fourth, but Greece are a decent side we're probably no better than 50:50 to finish ahead of. Their FIFA rank, for example, is 52; ours is 49. They're no Armena, Luxembourg or whatever that it would be shocking to lose to.

**pineapple stu** · 14/10/2022, 12:28 PM

They're even above us in the Elo ratings (41st v 46th), which I always think are a bit more reliable.

I think some of the expectations in this thread are already matching the "We should go through the Nations League unbeaten" stuff we saw ahead of that campaign.

**paul_oshea** · 14/10/2022, 2:48 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Seriously?

I'm very much a 'Kenny out' man but that's a crazily high bar. Picking up any points against Netherlands and France would be decent. Even 4 losses is not automatic sacking stuff, unless they are horrendous performances and goal-fests against us.

It's much more about what we show against Greece (assuming we dismiss Gibraltaer home and away).

Are you really saying that two games against Greece decide his outcome? Its about all the games, if we dont perform well throughout all the games surely that's enough for you?

**pineapple stu** · 14/10/2022, 2:53 PM

He said it's more about the games than Greece than about qualification.

That doesn't mean the games against Greece decide his outcome. It means they're more important is all

**osarusan** · 14/10/2022, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Are you really saying that two games against Greece decide his outcome? Its about all the games, if we dont perform well throughout all the games surely that's enough for you?

Of course they're all important. There's always a difference between a good performance and a bad performance.

Just in terms of victories/defeats (and not looking at the manner of a defeat), losing to Netherlands and France home and away need not be the end - they are just better than us anyway. There could be promising elements even in defeat.

It's the Greece games, an opponent similar to us in ranking, where defeats are not really going to come with the caveat of 'encouraging performance'.

Against Gibraltar, you'd assume anything other than 2 victories means it's all over instantly for Kenny.

**Real ale Madrid** · 14/10/2022, 5:38 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Seriously?

I'm very much a 'Kenny out' man but that's a crazily high bar. Picking up any points against Netherlands and France would be decent. Even 4 losses is not automatic sacking stuff, unless they are horrendous performances and goal-fests against us.

It's much more about what we show against Greece (assuming we dismiss Gibraltaer home and away).

I'm not saying I agree, I'm saying that's what I think the bar will be set at. I just don't think he will get another go. I'd keep him on if it was me - I just can't see it. If we miss out on a playoff place we will look at our two defeats at the start of the NL campaign and those will be the results to blame - it all goes back to the NL and Q being all part of the same campaign - and looking back over the campaign as a whole - he will be judged. Obviously and hopefully we get into said playoffs and the FRA / NED results will become largely irrelevant in that scenario.

**CSAD** · 15/10/2022, 6:16 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

They're even above us in the Elo ratings (41st v 46th), which I always think are a bit more reliable.

I think some of the expectations in this thread are already matching the "We should go through the Nations League unbeaten" stuff we saw ahead of that campaign.

Elo ranking?Good god.

**BOOMSHAKALAKA** · 15/10/2022, 7:44 AM

When's the last time we lost to top seeds in a group both home and away? It rarely happens. I think the last time was under Trap in his last campaign. Even Stan got draws against the Czech Republic and Germany. It's really sad that the focus is on Kenny scraping by so he can have another campaign to satisfy his vocal supporters. The actual focus should be on these players competing to qualify for tournaments and been given the best opportunity to do so. Despite been criticised by Kenny backers, we actually have some very good players.

**JR89** · 15/10/2022, 8:28 AM

Originally Posted by CSAD

Elo ranking?Good god.

Yes the ranking system that fifa decided to start using a modified version of in 2018 when they changed up how they always did the rankings.

**pineapple stu** · 15/10/2022, 8:35 AM

That's the one. The FIFA rankings were nonsense and exploited as such by a few countries. Probably hard for FIFA to admit complete defeat and change over to Elo entirely.

On that basis, Holland are 150 points better than Serbia, which is a lot. France are still ahead of Portugal despite a dreadful Nations League campaign which saw them lose 100 points from second in the world. They're both 100+ points stronger than Denmark/Switzerland so let's not have any guff about how it's a comparable group to Mick's last one.

You can criticise Kenny's reign while acknowledging that this is about as tough a draw as we've ever gotten (especially when you add in a fourth seed rated above us)