Shamrock Rovers Examinership Thread

[Bald Student]

Wont you still have 2.36million of Debts!!! Who is going to pay those off?

I think that the key thing here is that the current shareholders in Rovers can have their ownership of the club taken off them by the examiner.
The ownership of the club could then be sold to, for example, the supporters at,to pick numbers, 1000 euro per shareholding. If a thousand supporters signed up, then a good chunk of the debt would be cleared.
I'm no expert bit that's the way forward as I see it.

As an eL supporter I hope two things happen in this mess.

1. That the FAI or the government don't bail out Rovers. That would set a terrible precedint.
2. That Rovers don't go out of the league, that would be a loss to anyone involved in the eL.

Rovers have spent over their means for a long time now. It is fair that they experience a painfull readjustment. Hopefully at the end of it all they will be still here.

[OneRedArmy]

If you're ever stuck for an answer to the question'Why does EVERYBODY hate Dublin City FC?', just have a look at the quote you posted above. It's MORE than a business! Good luck Rovers.

You beat me to it Cork Harps.

Why does it not surprise me that a fan of a club with no history views it as "just business"?

I'll give you a simple example. Say you're a fan and a shareholder/400 club member of Rovers, or whatever club.

Say you're also a shareholder in AIB.

Do you spend all day on a website arguing about how well the AIB Chief Executive spoke last week, who the next Finance Director might be and speculating what the interim results will be? Do you travel half the country to visit a branch you haven't been to before?

I could go on. The day football becomes just a business in this country it will die, as the game depends on those that make irrational financial decisions, whether large or small, because they are addicted to football and supporting their club.

[The Sheliban]

The Rovers board surely knew the scale of their financial problems when they poached Roddy from DC. Clubs like Limerick and Monaghan have to spend within their means. All clubs probably spend a little what they can't afford. But Rovers seem to want their cake and eat it too.

The licensing system is a farce. You can owe another club €100, and not get a licence, yet owe millions to all and sundry, and obtain a licence.

I have great sympathy for most of the Hoops fans, but you don't try to spend your way out of a financial mess. Cut out the large waybill - for managers, players etc - get into Morton Stadium, where at least you'd be able to sell advertising - drop down a division and build your way back up.

[Ringo]

If you're ever stuck for an answer to the question'Why does EVERYBODY hate Dublin City FC?', just have a look at the quote you posted above. It's MORE than a business! Good luck Rovers.

It has to be run as a business. You can't just keep spending money & hope some will bale you out or you'll go bust and start again. its bull$hiit to suggest any different. The player's get paid the manager kitman etc get paid, of couse its a business. The reason that clubs are in trouble is that they are not running the clubs properly. Why have Harps been in the first division for the last few years? Because they havn't spent money that they don't have. We had a wage bill of 6k last year, less than half of what Rovers had. They got to stay in the Premier divison, we got relegated. Their has to be an even playing field. If you have the money & can pay the players fair enough, but to owe 2.5 million & still get a licence makes a joke of the whole system.

[Ringo]

League to tighten rules as Rovers granted extra time


Wednesday April 13th 2005


EIRCOM LEAGUE clubs will face even more stringent financial tests under the FAI club licensing system following the appointment of an examiner to Shamrock Rovers.

UEFA is currently preparing to introduce phase two of the financial criteria for the club licensing scheme. No date has yet been set for its introduction, but the FAI is actively considering implementing these new standards in the 2006 manual in a bid to prevent a repeat of the Shamrock Rovers case.

The new standards would see clubs having to furnish monthly accounts, detailed cash flow budgets as well as detailed schedules for debt reduction.

The introduction of a salary cap is also a possibility and officials from the FAI's club licensing department have been closely monitoring the operation of a wage protocol in England, where League One and Two clubs have to maintain wages at between 65 and 75 per cent of income.

The FAI's first instance committee will meet within the next few days to discuss the Shamrock Rovers situation and they have the power to withdraw the club's premier division licence.

The FAI had their own legal team in the High Court on Monday and Tuesday keeping a watching brief and they will prepare a report for the first licensing committee.

The seven members of the FLC will be particularly keen to see what documentation was presented in court to support Rovers' petition for examinership and compare it to their application for a club licence back in January.

In both 2004 and 2005 Rovers were refused a licence by the FLC but subsequently obtained one on appeal.

It is believed that, because Mr Justice Peter Kelly feels that Shamrock Rovers has an opportunity to survive as a going concern, the first instance committee will be reluctant to go against the High Court and withdraw their licence during the period of examinership. However, they are sure to seek a meeting with the High Court appointed examiner, Neil Hughes, to hear his plans for the club and also to make him aware of the club's commitments under the licensing procedure.

Although several Eircom League clubs has privately indicated that they are extremely unhappy at the situation, there is unlikely to be any sanction against Rovers in the short-term.

Unlike the English League, where Wrexham were deducted ten points for going into administration, there is no provision in the eircom League's rule book for clubs going into examinership. However, they could be excluded from next year's competition if the majority of clubs at a special general meeting of the League felt that they were guilty of misconduct.

The PFAI have been in contact with their members at Rovers and have also had discussions with members of the 400 Club, who will be bankrolling the club over the period of the examinership. The Rovers players have been receiving their wages since the season started and the PFAI will continue to adopt only a watching brief as long as that continues.

The Shamrock Rovers 400 Club held an egm in Tallaght on Monday night and agreed to financially support the club through the examinership process.

"The 400 Club is crucial to the future of Shamrock Rovers and pivotal to the success of the examinership. We are fully committed to the cause and believe that the current crisis at Rovers can be resolved," said chairman Jonathan Roche.

Since the 400 Club was formed two years ago, they have contributed around €300,000 to Rovers.

Rovers manager Roddy Collins said he supported the move to examinership and the decision of the 400 Club to financially support the club over the next few months.

DUNDALK'S plans to unveil their new artificial pitch at Oriel Park on April 21 have failed to materialise and their 'home' game against Limerick that night will take place at United Park.

"The problem is still down to finance although we have heard that the Department of Sport are close to releasing the funding," said Dundalk CEO Sean Connolly. "We are disappointed that Oriel will not be ready but I would ask all Dundalk supporters to be patient."

Dundalk hope to be back in Oriel Park for the Monaghan United game on May 5.

Gerry McDermott



© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

[Caleb]

2.36m in debt, players not being paid, examiner appointed by the court.

Any other league in the world would revoke their license or at the very least dock them 10 points.
But Oh no, this is rovers and all the bull**** that we need them in the league comes out.
The rest of the clubs in the league have to support themselves and sort out their own finances but time after time rovers have been bailed out by the FAI and the government.
They cant get their stadium built and they cant run a football club, by keep giving them money and time isnt helping, obviously.

The other clubs can vote to have them expelled from the league for the next season due to misconduct. i hope this happens and rovers learn once and for all its the same rules for EVERY club

[manic da hoop]

The management problems at Rovers have been on-going now for years, afterall you don't rack up a debt of over €2million over night on the turnover of an eL club. We as Rovers fans have been tearing our hair out at the way this club has been run during that time. Finally now it would seem we have finally been given a chance to rectify those problems once and for all and, hopefully, put new structures in place that will secure the future of this club for many years to come. The first phase starts hear, the ball is now in our court and if we (the fans) **** it up then I don't expect any sympathy from anyone.

Bear in mind that the High Court do not grant Examinerships willy-nilly, otherwise every company in Ireland would willing allow themselves to accumulate massive debts safe in the knowledge that they can then use this process to bail themselves out when the time comes. Judge Peter Kelly granted it on our behalf on the basis that we have a viable future as a top eircom League club. It is up to us now to prove him right and justify his confidence. At the risk of sounding a little arrogant, I just hope that everyone in football in this country gives us whatever support they can for the good of the game as a whole in Ireland, because without us the league would be a much poorer place.

Koh.

[Ringo]

The other clubs can vote to have them expelled from the league for the next season due to misconduct. i hope this happens and rovers learn once and for all its the same rules for EVERY club

the problem is Shels/Pats & a few others are in the same boat. it would be like turkeys voting for christmas.

[drummerboy]

Ringo you seem obsessed by Shamrock Rovers plight. Are you Ronan Seery?

[higgins]

Judge Peter Kelly granted it on our behalf on the basis that we have a viable future as a top eircom League club

The same can be then said of every club within the league

You actually bought your way to premier division survival last season by building up more debts at the expense of clubs like Dublin City I'm not a Dublin city fan and think they are a 1st division team but it gives nobody the right to overspend and gain an advantage.

This rule of examinership is crazy. You get away with clearing debts and a clean slate while others such as Shels still have plenty of Debts!! This cant go unpunished surely??? The point was made that Pats and shels also have debts and yes that's true but you either manage your debts within the club an play football within your budget or you drop out of the league and go down the road of examinership.

You cant have your cake and eat it...

I'll be shocked if after 70 days you are allowed continue trading as normal with no points reduction or players wage reduction or enforced relegation and your 2million less in debt! That's a crazy idea.... Are rovers fans for real when they think that will happen?

[manic da hoop]

If relegation was the price we had to pay to save ourselves then I would gladly take it, so would any true Rovers fan. Major cut-backs with regard to the wage bill are likely to take place over the coming months so, in effect, we are now beginning the process of potentially sacrificing our Premier Division status in order to secure our long-term future - happy?

BTW there is no provision in the league's rule book to take action of any form against a club which goes into examinership, so feel free to encourage your club to go down this route if you believe it may be necessary

[Macy]

Manic, can I just ask, are you sure to be rid of Maguire and Co now? Didn't sound like it from the snippet I heard on the radio from him.

Serious as the subject is, gotta laugh at the shels fans having a go at Rovers debts, and buying survival. Yeah, shels would never run up debts, struggle to pay players wages, or attempt to buy success on the field

[bluemovie]

I hate seeing Rovers in this mess as it's tarnishing the league again. Shels did the league a lot of good last year in Europe and the Premiership-only fans have developed a new respect for the eircom league, but if the most historically successful club goes bust, it makes us all into a joke.

I hope Rovers can at least stay in the league next year, but it's well time for a serious reality check for them. Waterford are supposed to be one of the bigger clubs in the league, but we had to put up with years of First Division torture. Meanwhile, when Rovers struggle, they go out and take their relegation rivals' boss and talk themselves up for European qualification this season. When Roddy was at his "I need a club where we can win things", I don't think he meant winning a 4 month stay of execution from the High Court. How could a board 2.3 million in debt sanction buying a player who was in the Premiership just a few seasons ago? They were supposed to get Andy Marriott too - an ex-international.

I hope things work out for Rovers and would be willing to make a contribution if ye organise a collection at forthcoming games (?), but start to live in the real world this time.

[Passive]

The rest of the clubs in the league have to support themselves and sort out their own finances but time after time rovers have been bailed out by the FAI and the government.

Yeah, the FAI and the government have been a huge help to SRFC, especially during that whole Milltown problem. They really covered themselves in glory then. They wouldn't even lift the phone for Rovers back then, they all stood by and watched as the club was left with nothing but a bag of jerseys, then they appointed Louis President of the FAI, but sure they're all Hoops really.

Rovers aren't the first company to go into examinership and they won't be the last. The bottom line - and this may irritate other supporters but it is a fact - is that Rovers' plight has been hanging over this league like a thunder cloud for 18 years. We all know that there are enough people in this country who will use anything as an excuse to belittle the league and Rovers has been all the ammunition they need. The most famous club in the country was abandoned by the government, the FAI and the general public in 1987 and it is a miracle it is still alive.

This examinership gives Rovers the chance to start afresh. It gives us all the opportunity to bury the last 18 years and start again. It has become a cliche and it's a cliche that annoys the pants off some other supporters, but the league does need a strong Rovers. Rovers are the only club people in this country identify with and I firmly believe that our recovery paves the way for a re-birth of the entire league. I'm not saying we have to win the league every year in order for the league to have credibility, but we need to be in a home stadium. Once Rovers get their house sorted, it will go someway to repairing the near-fatal damage that has been inflicted on the league by our demise.

[drummerboy]

The first thing to do is get rid of Maguire and Co. Roddy will probably also have to go along with the top earners. What you need then is to get into Morton, which will be a lot cheaper than Dalymount. Find a manager who is good with young players and knows decent players in Intermediate/junior football and get them in.

[manic da hoop]

Manic, can I just ask, are you sure to be rid of Maguire and Co now? Didn't sound like it from the snippet I heard on the radio from him.

He's not nicknamed McLiar for nothing! The game is well and truely up for our current crop of directors as all current shareholdings in the company will be declared null and void by the time the 3 month or so term is up. It is a legal requirement for all existing directors to remain in-situ for the duration of the examinership. However, the real power of administration will now rest with the examiner himself.

[higgins]

Major cut-backs with regard to the wage bill are likely to take place over the coming months so, in effect, we are now beginning the process of potentially sacrificing our Premier Division status in order to secure our long-term future

Its about time!! sacrificing your premier division status !! You have as much right to go build up debts as any other club in the country (Shels included) I don't have any problem with that but you need to run your own club with those debts... You can not enter into a process to write them off without being punished in some way shape or form. Dublin City could have easily spent their way to survival last season but choose the long term future of the club as more important.

This crap of rovers being good for the league is nonsense Yet again your all over the papers because of YOUR financial mess that YOU YOURSELVES got into. Its nobody's problem but your OWN.

Stop living in the past... You have no ground! Big deal.... Go rent like Dublin City and others have. Just because you were a decent club gives you no right to anything. Its sad to see others being punished for YOUR mistakes. Nobody but yourselves and bad management ran up those debts of 2.36million. If you cant deal with them then drop out of the league otherwise pay them off and play by the same rules as everyone else.

There is no reason at all to be that much in debt other then mismanagement by your club. Either cut your costs drop down the leagues with your examinership route.

[drummerboy]

Would’nt it be interesting to know how much Shelbourne are in debt? But then again they are not so forthcoming.

[Macy]

He's not nicknamed McLiar for nothing! The game is well and truely up for our current crop of directors as all current shareholdings in the company will be declared null and void by the time the 3 month or so term is up. It is a legal requirement for all existing directors to remain in-situ for the duration of the examinership. However, the real power of administration will now rest with the examiner himself.

I get all that, but whats to stop him heading up some other spoofer and remaining there post examinership, debt free to do it all over again? I really do hope not, but is there the possiblity of him out bidding the 400club or others at the end of it? Considering the 400club funds will be stretched by the end of the examinership period? I really hope the 400 club becomes a major player, so finally, does the investment during examinership by the 400 club equate to shares at the end of it?

[Ringo]

Ringo you seem obsessed by Shamrock Rovers plight. Are you Ronan Seery?

heard that one before & its been answered before. it the biggest story around at the moment & cosidering what the Rovers board did to DC last year, you can't blame me for being interested.