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Thread: 2021 UEFA European Under-21 Championships

  1. #21
    Seasoned Pro ifk101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liamoo11 View Post
    And even then we actually beat Italy two nil in the 2017 elite phase(conor mastersons group).
    Didn't Sweden beat us 3-0 in the same elite phase ;-)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom View Post
    Liamoo is the man to ask though. That fella has a serious understanding of our underage players going back a while.
    Undoubtably. But maybe somewhat selective in what he has posted.
    Last edited by ifk101; 13/12/2018 at 7:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifk101 View Post
    Didn't Sweden beat us 3-0 in the same elite phase ;-)?



    Undoubtably. But maybe somewhat selective in what he has posted.
    Guilty as charged. My defence is that one off results amongst one group of 19s are less important than the overall success across the 3 seasons of 19s that will make up the 21s

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    He's right though, isn't he? The two hosts and nine group winners qualify automatically. The two best-placed runners-up play off for the final place?
    He is right. Quite a shock really.
    Mea culpa.

  5. #24
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liamoo11 View Post
    Who is saying they are setting the world alight? What I'm saying is in this particular 21s group we have performed better across the 3 under 19 groups which will make up the under 21 squad than every team except Italy who have also qualified for the elite phase in each of the 3 under 19 seasons.
    Better than what ? They are top half of Europe, at best. Doesn't correlate at all with what will happen in this Qualification Group.



    Quote Originally Posted by liamoo11 View Post
    My simple point is that a manager who is the chosen one for our seniors should be expected to get into the top 2 here and hailed if we top the group. If we finish below Iceland there is no way he should get the senior job and same if we don't at least push Sweden for second to the very last game.. Hopefully fai have built some of these performance indicators into the contract and haven't been frightened off by the league of ireland apologists
    "League of Ireland apologists" - yes John Delaney really cares about them!

    That's a new one on me - League of Ireland apologists - I suppose you will get plenty of them on a forum dedicated to Irish football
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    Better than what ? They are top half of Europe, at best. Doesn't correlate at all with what will happen in this Qualification Group.





    "League of Ireland apologists" - yes John Delaney really cares about them!

    That's a new one on me - League of Ireland apologists - I suppose you will get plenty of them on a forum dedicated to Irish football
    How can the performances and results Of The three previous seasons of under 19 s who are the players who will make up the squad for this 21 s cycle not be relevant to how we should expect them to perform at under 21 level?what is not relevant as I have said is that Iceland are seeded above us yet the group of players they will choose from have never made an elite phase at 19s while our group of players for this 21s cycle have made 3 elite phases.

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    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liamoo11 View Post
    How can the performances and results Of The three previous seasons of under 19 s who are the players who will make up the squad for this 21 s cycle not be relevant to how we should expect them to perform at under 21 level?what is not relevant as I have said is that Iceland are seeded above us yet the group of players they will choose from have never made an elite phase at 19s while our group of players for this 21s cycle have made 3 elite phases.
    I suppose they are to an extent - but I don't see how - 3 x elite phase means we "should" be top 2 in this group. Not withstanding players develop at different levels and speeds and all that.

    I suspect SK will get more more from this group than the sum of its parts, at least I'm hopeful he will. If he fails it shouldn't mean his senior job is in jeopardy. I'd like to see him do well - that's the League of Ireland apologist in me I suppose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by liamoo11 View Post
    How can the performances and results Of The three previous seasons of under 19 s who are the players who will make up the squad for this 21 s cycle not be relevant to how we should expect them to perform at under 21 level?what is not relevant as I have said is that Iceland are seeded above us yet the group of players they will choose from have never made an elite phase at 19s while our group of players for this 21s cycle have made 3 elite phases.
    The problem for our U21 team in this group is that if they are to top this group, they need at least a handful of exceptional players playing right the way through. But if there's a star 19/20-year-old player in that group, he's likely to be moved up to the senior team, as will happen with Declan Rice if he returns, as has already happened with Michael Obafemi, and as will happen with Kelleher, Masterson and Connolly if they make the breakthrough they seem to be on the verge of making. Meanwhile, the likes of Idah, Parrott, O'Connor, Collins, Afolabi and the rest of what is a very strong looking U19 team will probably be held back to focus on their campaign - if they fail to qualify, they could be brought into the U21 squad after missing only one game, but if they make the U19s Finals they will miss they first 2 or 3 U21 qualifiers.

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  10. #28
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    As a League of Ireland apologist, I am as miffed by the way the U21 managers appointment will be timed. It doesnt make much sense to have a guy in for 18 months, not have competative fixtures for a good spell and then leave before the end of the campaign. I do though think this is dealt with though in the remit of the new U21 manager as overseeing the development at underage groups in general, is that being too much of an apologist
    Seriously though Tom Mohan is an excellent coach and even prior to Stephen Kenny gettin the U21 job they had a good footballing relationship already, Kenny wanted Mohan involved with Derry City. injury cut short his playing days but was already well on the coaching pathway. Being just made RDO in Cavan/Monaghan he chose to stick with the FAI. They have a similar philosophy on the game so there will be a level of continuity from 17s to 21s that wasnt there when King was over 21s. He had a totally different tactical setup so u19s that would have played together, used to a system etc as soon as they were called in to the u21s it was a new and completely outdated way that King tried to get them playing with limited contact with these lads. Now when they move up or are called up through the age groups at minimum they should be better organised simply due to familiarity in how they are asked to play tactically. That probably adds to the pressure that SK could be under tbh particularly if he has contact time with 16s to 21s in conjunctions with those age group managers. While the u19s getting to the elite phases should be an expectation it shouldnt be understated either. There is a consistancy of performance over a number of campaigns now that wasnt there in the past, it was good one off results against top nations but plenty of clangers that blew progression. Performances/results at underage had as much to do with the luck of having a crop of top level youngsters come through at the same time than it did having a tatically astute coach. The mix was right circa 1998 under Kerr but with little before and after. I have little doubt that the general upward momentum seen up until u21s before now will contine to u21s. That could well be the moving on of King as much as the appointment of Kenny. A play-off should be the minimum target but tbh we should have no fear of the Italians and top the group.
    Last edited by Nesta99; 15/12/2018 at 5:25 AM.

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  12. #29
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    All fair points but I think it was just a case of the optics with kennys appointment to u21s rather then any particular logic. I look forward to seeing us play a bit of football now, at least if the results don't improve we won't look like talentless lumpers while doing it

  13. #30
    Seasoned Pro Nesta99's Avatar
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    I agree! It was a muddled way of appointing someone. We know the reasons why though as JD muddled his way out of a mess of sacking a management team what 3 games after giving a top dollar contract extension (excluding the Euro finals games but giving the contract before just makes it all the more bizzare) and with the offer on the table for months as MON courted an EPL job, or at least played JD in to thinking that to get a bump in the offer. The logic behind the appointment happens to make sense for the underage setup I doubt by intention, but then the promotion to the senior job in 18 months irrespective of how things pan out negates any seeming logic shown by the CEO.

    Anyway, whether by intent or by accident, I dont think there is a better person to get young lads enthusiastic about a callup, getting them to seriously commit to us. Players who have been around the block, including at EPL clubs have regularly said that they actually enjoyed the training session under Kenny. It may sound like i'm cheerleading a bit but simply his expectation of professionalism, his belief in players' ability, the change in tactic and style might get players who have different options to at least seriously consider RoI rather than Luxemburg or even Sweden. He will play players if they are good enough even if young. Hopefully there is some proper planning with McCarthy on that front without too much interference to get the likes of Ryan Nolan more involved now. Having Matterson around the senior squad if he's in the Liverpool senior matchday squad. Im not so pushed on the idea on trying to sell playing for us to Rice and from what SK has said in the past he wouldnt be pushed either. Mick might be more pragmatic on that right now and convince Rice to stick with us. Tbh the landscape of Irish international football doesnt look just so bleak and a ball has yet to be kicked. I had a watch of the Yugoslavia game from '99 in another thread and maybe that has skewed my thinking a bit but we did play some great stuff bar the last 10 minutes of panic and hoofing as if we had been under the kosh all game, a common factor in McCarthy's first spell and Macedonian heartbreak had yet to happen....
    Last edited by Nesta99; 15/12/2018 at 7:50 AM.

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  15. #31
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    https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/sta...789126144?s=19

    Strong looking homebased squad named, which includes players in the Irish League. Michael O'Connor is in there having publicly stated he was switching to the North.

    Good to see Andrews in there. He spoke recently of a frustration at not being involved as much as he'd like in our underage set up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olé Olé View Post
    https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/sta...789126144?s=19

    Strong looking homebased squad named, which includes players in the Irish League. Michael O'Connor is in there having publicly stated he was switching to the North.

    Good to see Andrews in there. He spoke recently of a frustration at not being involved as much as he'd like in our underage set up.
    Why is this a "home based" squad? Is this just to look at home based players and see if they are suitable, or is there now going to be policy to pick LOI players only?

    Surely we should be picking the best players, regardless of where they come from ?

  17. #33
    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    It's just for a training camp ahead of the first squad being named in March

  18. #34
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Who cares where they come from? Home based squads are normal for many other nations. It's about time we started doing something similar.

    I'd prefer to see a policy of home-based players actually playing first team football at a decent level over second or third generation overseas players that have 30 minutes in a reserve team from League Two getting picked as the likes of Noel King done for the past few years.

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  20. #35
    Seasoned Pro CraftyToePoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    I'd prefer to see a policy of home-based players actually playing first team football at a decent level over second or third generation overseas players that have 30 minutes in a reserve team from League Two getting picked as the likes of Noel King done for the past few years.
    You've just made Jordan Shipley cry.

  21. #36
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke View Post
    You've just made Jordan Shipley cry.
    Au contraire, he's League One.

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    'I'll promote players that are Irish' - Kenny sets out stall as Irish U21s manager https://the42.ie/4457020

    He's making the right noises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olé Olé View Post
    'I'll promote players that are Irish' - Kenny sets out stall as Irish U21s manager https://the42.ie/4457020

    He's making the right noises.
    Is his mention of picking a player from Germany a sign that Johansson has come on board at Bayern?

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    Hope so. He refers players in Holland in plural. Is there someone other than Simon Power?

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    Seasoned Pro joe_denilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olé Olé View Post
    Hope so. He refers players in Holland in plural. Is there someone other than Simon Power?
    There's Quivi Fowler at Dordrecht but he's been lining out for Cardiff u23 recently......

    James McGarry and Lukas Browning Lagerfeldt are eligible but currently with New Zealand and Sweden respectively.
    Dan Crowley is overage.

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