Open it up or leave it IE?

[dahamsta]

Although the membership is increasing slowly but surely, I'm a little concerned that unless it starts to take off soon, I'm going to be put in the eventual position of deciding whether it's really worth keeping the site running. It's no bother to me at the moment, but that in itself is troubling to me - it /should/ be a bother, it should be something I give a toss about.

So, I have a question for the membership: Should we continue tipping away as an exclusively Irish soccer site, i.e. aimed at the LOI and related community, or should we open the site up to all-comers with, to start, a Premiership forum?

I haven't set up a poll yet because I /know/ you will all click 'NO' as a matter of reflex, and that's not the reaction I want. I want you to think about this logically and carefully, as it's not just a matter of sticking with what you know and love, you have to think about the bigger picture too. For example, if we did open up the site to Irish Premiership fans, you will have the chance to try and convert them. And if the membership increases substantially, I will be able to invest in the site and improve it.

Again, please think carefully about this before you post a reaction. But please, /do/ post a reaction. If the reaction is "neah, I don't care, whatever", or even none at all, that lethargy is going to brush off on the Bosses, and I would prefer that not happen.

Once we get a bit of a reaction, I'll put it to a poll.

Discuss.

adam

[Neil]

1. I don't think that having a 'Premiershi*' slot here would attract too many more visitors. Premiershi* 'supporters' aren't real football supporters - they don't really care about football or their local town. Hence they wouldn't be bothered coming on to a forum to talk about football. I might be completely wrong but most Premiershi* 'supporters' I know only follow that team out of a need to shout for someone in the pub.

2. It's possible that a lot of the members here at the moment would leave if there was a Chelsea or Charlton section underneath Cork City.

if we did open up the site to Irish Premiership fans, you will have the chance to try and convert them

I have enough arguements with friends and family about 'supporting' foreign teams. As I say, 'Irish Premiership fans' aren't knowledgable football people, and would not understand any type of attempt to 'convert' them.

I don't know, but, I'd be against it.

[pete]

dunno.

Maybe a general Premiership section followed by sections for Spain & Italy etc.....?

At ;east that way we could fool ourslevs into a general football site.......?

[dalo]

I didn't realise things were that bad. I did notice that most of the posters are CCFc fans rather than all - inclusive NL fans. hardly surprising I suppose given the small amount of people who watch NL Soccer.

Anyway regards opening up the forum to premiership suppporters I 'd be opposed. They ahve far too many sites as it is, many of which are dying on their feet anyway. Furthermore It could lead to the squeezing out of the Nl supporter and their views by our premiership friends who think they know better when they sit in front of the box.

Also foot.ie is a excellant if not the best forum I have ever used and while controversial this is surely one of it's things.

Therefore I am opposed to opening up the site to premiership football. if it is to be opened up then it should be to all other football leagues but only if it is not to the detriment of the NL and their fans. On the other hand I would be dissapointed to see it shut down because without a lot of us would really be in the dark.

My answer is a noto adam's proposal.

[fosterdollar]

I would rather not see an over-dedication to a Premiership forum. But, having said that, there are problems that exist within the LOI relating to the whole idea of certain people not seeing past their own back yard. We've got to accept, as I know most do, that football is a global sport. It is unfair to say that posting opinions about other leagues in other places makes you less devoted to the eL.
I do like the idea of having just general forums on national leagues in various other countries.
As regards to voting, IMO (like most issues under debate these days) the wording needs to be changed. It's more like "kinda yeah, kinda no" at the moment for me.

[dahamsta]

[None of the following should be seen as me being negative, or flaming. I'm just stating my opinion, and if I don't happen to agree with you, well, that's just what I'm saying. I'm unlikely to force my suggestions on anyone, I want Foot.ie to remains as democratic a site as possible, within the constraints of the financial burden I have to absorb.]

Neil said:

Premiershi* 'supporters' aren't real football supporters - they don't really care about football or their local town. Hence they wouldn't be bothered coming on to a forum to talk about football. I might be completely wrong but most Premiershi* 'supporters' I know only follow that team out of a need to shout for someone in the pub.

I think that's a bit... rash Neil. Ok, rash is a bad word, how about "exaggerated"? We all know that I'm certainly not the king of soccer, but I've heard people talking about Premiership soccer at break in work; in the pub when the TV's not on; and even walking along the street. To suggest that /all/ Permiership (sic) supporters are armchair supporters is illogical and extreme, it flies in the face of reality.

It's possible that a lot of the members here at the moment would leave if there was a Chelsea or Charlton section underneath Cork City.

I agree with this at least, although again, I think it's somewhat exaggerated. Chelsea or Charlton, if they required a separate forum at some time in the future, wouldn't be in the same section as Cork City, they would be in a Premiership section. That said, I would be worried at losing some of the current membership, but I also think we have to be realistic and face facts - there is only a small core of contributors on Foot.ie, and most of them are exclusively City fans. The site would be better off rebranded as a City forum in it's current state. And that's not an option.

I have enough arguements with friends and family about 'supporting' foreign teams. As I say, 'Irish Premiership fans' aren't knowledgable football people, and would not understand any type of attempt to 'convert' them.

Again, I think that's somewhat unfair to Premiership fans. Surely you can see why some footie fans would not /want/ to support the LOI? I mean, seriously, the quality of soccer, management and business affairs is shocking. I can understand your willingness to support Irish soccer - in fact I respect it - but it has to be said, there's good reason behind many people's choice not to.

I don't know, but, I'd be against it.

Well, if you're against it, you do know Neil.

pete said:

Maybe a general Premiership section followed by sections for Spain & Italy etc.....? At ;east that way we could fool ourslevs into a general football site.......?

Again, I'm concentrating on the Premiership at the moment. To be clear, I'm not talking about opening the site up to Everything Soccer right now, I'm talking about the possibility of adding /one/ forum, "The Premiership", to the General section. Any advancement would be reliant on the success or failure of that forum. Also, it's important to point out that I have no considered plan to open up the site as a "general football site" at this time. The site would remain a resource and community for /Irish/ soccer fans, nothing more. It would just be extended into a site for Irish fans of soccer, as against fans of Irish soccer, if you catch my drift.

dalo said:

I didn't realise things were that bad. I did notice that most of the posters are CCFc fans rather than all - inclusive NL fans. hardly surprising I suppose given the small amount of people who watch NL Soccer.

Things aren't "bad" dalo, I'm just a bit ticked off at the slow growth of this site. It was intended from the off to be a resource for fans of Irish soccer, however it remains almost exclusively a resource for fans of Cork soccer. IMHO, that's not good enough, it doesn't cover the goals we set out to achieve.

Anyway regards opening up the forum to premiership suppporters I 'd be opposed. They ahve far too many sites as it is, many of which are dying on their feet anyway.

I would say that those sites aren't like this site though.

Furthermore It could lead to the squeezing out of the Nl supporter and their views by our premiership friends who think they know better when they sit in front of the box.

I genuinely can't see the LOI fans been squeezed out by anybody. For one, the average LOI fan on the site is well able to defend him or herself; for two, there will be a natural separation anyway; and for three, we could see some excellent debate arise out of it.

Also foot.ie is a excellant if not the best forum I have ever used and while controversial this is surely one of it's things.

What's controversial about it? Only controversial thing I've seen is my booting of Gerry and James. James is back, and I don't think Gerry bears a grudge. The compliment is appreciated though.

Therefore I am opposed to opening up the site to premiership football. if it is to be opened up then it should be to all other football leagues but only if it is not to the detriment of the NL and their fans.

Well, I can see your point, but I reckon it'd be a bit icky to open up a "Non-Irish Soccer" forum.

On the other hand I would be dissapointed to see it shut down because without a lot of us would really be in the dark.

I have no immediate plans to shut down the site, I have no immediate /need/ to shut down the site. But it remains an option.

adam

[Xlex]

I agree with all of the above and in addition to that........

Given the certain similarities our league have with the Irish League, is there anyway you could market this site for Northern Irish supporters and host forums on either league side by side. I think a sizeable IL support would enable this site to grow significantly. There are alot of IL supporters on www.footballforums.com (vbulletin board) and there is clearly not enough of attention paid to them there, and so an easily available membership to take you to the next level...

[pete]

There us no doubt Adam that foot.ie would have almost all the online general league debating if it weren't for the JWs message board. Notwork54 are flakey to the say the least at the best of times but people like to have the option of posting anonymously so that'all probably stay for now.....

If there was to be Premiership section how would you be looking to bring that to the attention of the bar stool brigade?

The thought of sections for Derby & Ipwich ain't exactely appealing to me but i can live with a general section.

I suppose with summer football 'n all on the way the eL is looking more at co-existing with the Premiership than taking on head to head so maybe theres scope for converting some bar stoolers.

[Neil]

Imagine if there were Premiershi* lovers on here blowing their hole about how great the English game is and putting down the National League, and then going on to say $eltic are a great Irish team and that Rangers are Huns and 'C'mon Oirland, let's beat them Brits'!

I wouldn't last a day without being booted out!

[A face]

I would have voted "No" on the poll, but i am giving it some thought.

The problem = Not enough traffic.

The objective = To get more traffic.

A question = Is opening the forum to the kinda of traffic a good or bad thing, i seriously think you'll never really know until you do it. You can talk about City fans being fickle, but premiereshi* fans are worse, that you can take as gospel. At first, they would have a field day, (That i'd have no problem with, just give me sometime to get my ammo together and it would be guns a blazin', only if they start first though .... of course ) but then you might get some of actually getting involved in debate, which is good.

I think we should look at the sections that are not gettnig that many hits and see what could be done with them, off the top of my head.

1. Try to get supporters from those clubs to be moderators, they would have all the gossip and know all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

2. Allow pics, This might not seem like a big factor but if you were to think multi-media, visual aids and a picture has a thousand words. I dunno ... might brighten up the place a bit. I personally would love to see it.

3. Are people aware of the forum, all the Corkies are and Longford fans and a few more, but if people dont know it is there we have to tell them, i dont know how to do this but maybe approaching the clubs might help.

4. Is there an "NLU" thing in the north. I would love to hear more about what is happening up there, could we have someone up there moderate that section, And with the world cup coming up could we have more content in the National Team section.

5. How about tables and fixtures, and info about where the cup draws selections are on and when (i know it is in Dublin always but feic it) NLU meetings, Supporters club meeting and any other events. The calanders is done very well but lads to be honest, i dont really care when ye have your birthdays, if you are in the pub i'll buy you a pint but i ain't going looking on the calander for it.

That is my tupence, give me some more time and i'll write a bit more. It has started out as a good thread, hope no-one messes it up.

Adam ..... how about all the members met up and thrash out a few ideas, i know i didn't get to the last one but there are a lot more now. (i know i know ... any excuse to have a beer)

[Macy]

I see where you're coming from, but the problem is changing people's habits of use. If you take the LTFC website - the message board gets largely ignored, with most people posting on the guestbook.
The logging in maybe a problem, cos when I suggested it Johnny's site I got eaten out of it. The fact that Johnny's board is/has been the standard bearer in terms of general discussion - maybe a bit more tack with regard to JW's site when phootball was set-up may have helped when as he appeared to be considering having his board on here.... (I also see where you were coming from at the time, but that would've been a big boost).
Maybe you should be targeting the people who run the unofficial message boards of the other clubs - for what it's worth this is the unofficial Town message board, but if you could persuade the likes of Pats, Derry, Bohs and Rovers unofficial websites to use this site then I think you have problem solved.

[Macy]

Forgot to say I'm not in favour of opening up the site to the premiership.....
1) I don't think there are the numbers
2) 'Their' forums would decend it farcical unknowlegable arguements (even worse than ours!)
3) Look how annoying the likes of Del and various Carlisle fans have been on the Bohs/JW message board.
4) Re 3 - they would just start annoying us on the eL forums.
5) They're a load of west brit w@nkers

[Neil]

Originally posted by Macy
I see where you're coming from, but the problem is changing people's habits of use.

The logging in maybe a problem

Maybe you should be targeting the people who run the unofficial message boards of the other clubs - if you could persuade the likes of Pats, Derry, Bohs and Rovers unofficial websites to use this site then I think you have problem solved.

Good points. The logging in bit probablt stops a lot of people.

Obviously the hope that each set of supporters would decide to use foot.ie as their main forum has not worked, so Plan B would surley be to try and coax and convince message board moderators into using foot.ie and also to try and attract the users of each forum.

Users will probably not change their habits though unless they have to (ie. City fans losing a Red Boys msg board and then going to the previous variations of this), so the moderators of each clubs message boards would have to be talked to with regard a 'link'. I think....

[pete]

Originally posted by Neil
Users will probably not change their habits though unless they have to (ie. City fans losing a Red Boys msg board and then going to the previous variations of this), so the moderators of each clubs message boards would have to be talked to with regard a 'link'. I think....

So its agreed. Start the Denial of Service attacks on Notworks54 & all the users will coming flooding over to foot.ie

[Neil]

Would there ever be a possibilty of JW using foot.ie as his forum? That is where all the traffic is.

It would make for a lively Forum if all from JW's and all from here were to use the same one.

[Macy]

Interestingly, Johnny's just put the el.net message board stat's up - hardly reading this thread.......

stats

btw Adam, not really trying to compare, or criticise or anything - just trying to aid the discussion and be helpful (I actually far prefer the format of this board....)

[A face]

You would be taking a serious Kick@ss forum one one of the best around.

Only the best is what we deserve though !!

I'd be interested in our Northern friends coming over aswell.
They must must be way out in the dark i'd say. They have nothing like this or JW. from what i have seen they are all over the place.

[Zedi]

Open it up! Football forums which is run by Irish league supporters is pretty good. You can see that all the forums are in use and I think they have a few thou members, although I must admit I packed it in through sectarian hate mail I recieved. But you do get a lot of different supporters (E.L, I.L, S.P.L,and all english leagues) commenting on the others, good bad or indifferent.
E.G......I posted on an all Ireland cup, and got a thread going for a month, contributers were from all over Ireland.....Scotland...Wales....and England.
P.S....... I think thats where the sect' abuse started!

[Schumi]

I don't think anyone would have a problem with an Irish League club section. Whether anyone would use it is another thing, the IL board isn't exactly over-flowing with posts at the moment. I think that getting current club MBs to relocate may be a good idea but wasn't that tried with Pats to no avail?

Trying to expand the Irish club bits would be better before looking to add an English or European element.

[dahamsta]

Thanks for all the comments folks, keep 'em coming...

adam