QuoteKenny would have had a clause put into his contract at dundalk if theres no compensation so nothing they can do it about it now.
So according to Delaney the FAI are not paying any compensation and Dundalk have "been brilliant." How do Dundalk supporters feel about that ? Would be seriously unimpressed if it was my club. Mind you, could be just Delaney talking nonsense again.
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
Kenny would have had a clause put into his contract at dundalk if theres no compensation so nothing they can do it about it now.
It is looking like Stephen Kenny had a release clause in the contract he signed in August 2017 which allowed him to take up the international job without compensation. While the exact contract details are obviously not in the public domain, this comes as no major surprise as Stephen Kenny was in a very strong negotiating position in 2017 and clearly wanted to able to pursue his ambition if the opportunity presented itself.Originally Posted by TonyD
The issue of no compensation pales into insignificance with the loss of the significant skills set of the man. The biggest compensation factors for fans are that he leaves the club in a amazingly strong position form all sorts of perspectives - a settled squad that has just won the double and has set a whole tranche of records in the season gone by; a club that is cash rich with a strong backroom staff and qualified for the Champions League with a coefficient that is also certain to give seeding in the early qualifying rounds.
If the club retain and promote from within there is really no apparent reason why the club cant continue to build on what he has achieved so far - short odds favourites for retaining the league title indicate that the bookies market may also agree.
While I am easily irked by John Delaney and his manipulating spoof at the best of times, much of his outrageous spinning around this appointment annoys the heck out of me
I don't think the owners concerns will be so much about retaining the league, which I think you certainly are odds on for, but European progression. Its a huge ask of an in experienced manager, even if they have been involved under Kenny. The main job is a different story.
There must be the temptation to bring in experience from outside for Europe, but that comes with the risk of them not understanding the league too. Not an easy call.
If that's the case then fair enough,not much the club could do. As you say, he was in a very strong negotiating position.
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
Is Irish football really that unfathomable though ?
If someone is good at understanding the game, why would they not pick up any relevant local idiosyncrasies quickly ?
Yeah, I'd say that somebody capable of getting into the Europa league group stages should be able to work out LOI pretty quickly, or else bring in somebody to advise them on that.
Until Kenny left, I though Dundalk were on the verge of dominating LOI football for a good few years - everything was falling into place perfectly for them.
And they still can do that, with the right replacement as manager. Tbh, I'm surprised that somebody as inexperienced as Perth is getting the job.
I wouldn't necessarily agree with that Tony.Even if Kenny was free to talk to the FAI is it really that difficult for one of Delaney's Donkeys to pick up the phone and make a courtesy call to Dundalk ? Dundalk are, after all, the reigning Champions and surely deserve a bit more consideration than that.
Not at all, but in any league the majority of managers take a bit of time, to get to know the players, potential signings, opposition etc.
You've the odd managers who goes into a completely new league and wins all around them straight off, but it's rare enough.
And the expectation going in at a minimum would be retaining the league. With Europe obviously being the big goal. There aren't a whole pile of managers out there within dundalks reach who have been successful in Europe. It's a big ask.
It also makes it a very attractive job though.
I suspect what Perth (no doubt talented) mostly brings is a sense of continuity. with everything moving in the right direction for Dundalk it may well be they want to continue with as little fuss (given the manger is going) as possible. A new (outside the club) manager, however good, may want to bring his own ideas and/or style and that could disrupt what Dundalk currently have.
Yeah, that's obviously what's in his favour, knowing what works and how it works, and (hopefully for Dundalk) being able to keep it working.
TonyD is right in that there is little the club could do if a release clause was built into the contract.
You are also right on the separate point that there are recognised protocols about having discussions with a manager who is under contract to another club.
The absolute minimum would be what you suggest above, although it is generally understood that the permission of the club should be sought before attempting to hold discussions with someone under contract.
Especially so, as the club would not be able to block the move even if they wished to do so.
The most straight forward option is Vinny Perth as 1st team coach and Mick Neville with his pro licence sitting in as director of football. If somebody new does come in hopefully it will be with the continuity of the backroom team and a manager that will be patient with getting to know the squad before they start imposing their own ideas. It was always going to be an interesting close season being the first under the new owners but this could really indicate what type of ownership they pursue. Whether they let things evolve internally or will they look to use contacts to bring someone in. It could actually be more an indication of Mal Brannigan than the owners as they will likely take his lead. Player recruitment will be disrupted by uncertainty 2 seasons in a row now. No matter how things are managed potential signings would have been quicker to sign for Kenny than for a rookie like Perth or an as yet unknown manager. Targets have been identified already though, at least one went to Rovers, Murray has left and we are yet to hear on what Benson will do. It was probably hoped that Sadlier could still be convinced even with signs not being too positive there. It is more important to sign O'Donnell back now to help steady the ship. We have yet to see Chevdukas who will be like a new signing. It's odd to have probably the most stable close season and for things to still be so disrupted.
Not disagreeing with that. It would have been the courteous thing to do, no doubt. I was talking specifically about compensation, and if there was a release clause in Kennys contract then they hadn't a hope of getting any money from the FAI.
On Kennys successor, it's a strange one. In most cases a new manager is taking over because the previous one wasn't working out, and a clear out of players is often involved too. The most important thing for Dundalk I'd say is continuity. What they have is working, they have the best squad in the league, so the new manager, whoever it is, just needs to keep it going. If someone with loads of new ideas comes in it could all go pear shaped (well, the rest of us can hope anyway ��
Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.
I fail to see what difference being reigning Champions makes? If it's the right thing to do, then it shouldn't matter if the team are Champions or bottom of the league,
Is it working though? That may seem a stupid question to ask about double winners, but bear with me.
It comes down to what Peak 6 view as success. For Dundalk fans and the town, it's clearly working, has been for years, and similar continued success would be fantastic. Vinny Perth offers that continuity and the likelihood of continued domestic success at minimum for short term.
But, from a Peak 6 perspective, they clearly outlined their vision for the club being champions league group stages. Presumably they'd see reaching EL group stages again as progess towards this. But Europe is their main goal. I assume that's the hat they'll have on making this decision.
I think it's fair to say Europe was a disappointment for Dundalk this year. They were unlucky in the draw in some ways being seeded, but they underperformed too. Last season wasn't great either, but obviously the previous year was the footballing jackpot for an Irish club. And that's where they want to be back to. They're seeding this year in the CL puts them in a fantastic position to get there.
Can Vinny Perth get them to the level in Europe they are aiming for? It's an enormous ask and it will show huge faith in his ability to do that if they give him the job.
I think Vinny Perth can do it in Europe as well as domestically. A lot of the hard work in rebuilding a side that can progress (with some luck in the draw) has been done. Rosenborg was a close run game in which Kilduff hitting the bar still haunts as it would have put us through in extra time. The late 1st half goal in the first leg was criminal but Gannon was concussed/injured just prior to the equaiser in Trondheim. Losing some key players like Finn hurt us in Larnaca along with Gannon and O'Donnell being out injured. The value of O'Donnell in Europe should never be underestimated. Then you had connollyin front of a makeshift rightback This season injuries and age have probably caught up on O'Donnell but the wider squad is settled and a couple of positions being strengthened eg right wing and cover at right full and Chevdukas could be in the O'Donnelll like role if we ever get to see him play. Mountney was injured and Connolly just isnt up to it especially defensively eg in Cyprus. A lot of lads it was their first European experience. Soooo in terms of having a squad that can progress we are not far off (again depending on some luck with the draw), and Perth has been been from Split to St Petersburg and will have taken plenty from the experience gained working with Kenny. They were a team themselves that conferred on tactics. Is it a gamble? For sure it is but I think its the lesser of the disruptive options unless there is some oustanding candidate to come in as manager. Keeping Perth must be part of any managerial appointment to keep the comraderie among the players, that has been a big part of recent sucess.
Last edited by Nesta99; 28/11/2018 at 12:16 PM.
The biggest risk of all would be to significantly change a formula that has been working - in that context Vinny Perth in particular is pivotal and needs to be a central and influential part of the management team. Whether that is in the driving seat or alongside someone else remains to be seen; the wisdom of taking in someone else would really depend on the attitude and role of that person.
While the squad is settled and on form, further significant strengthening in a couple of key positions is required to have a realistic chance of taking advantage of the European coefficient and any good luck that might come our way in the draw. It is highly probable that a significant wedge will be made available to whoever is appointed
Yeah, I think it's very fair to say change is hugely risky, it could cost you the immediate domestic success (though you'd expect the right outside appointment to still achieve that) and not pay dividends in Europe.
Obviously Perth was there for the Euro success but I don't think it's quite the same as being the No. 1 during the time. I'd imagine most players would comment on the impact Kenny had on that success.
Certainly there should be enough players with the experience, with a reasonably favourable draw, but there's also key players that don't have it, Hoban probably being the stand out one in a key position.
I'm not sure what I'd prefer myself in ye're shoes. Safe hands or the risk on a big signing to look to take the next step. Tough call.
Just to clarify. Are you saying that Hoban is lacking in experience or doesn't ' have it'. If its the latter, does that mean goalscoring?
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