Very True,Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
There's 2 things to consider with songs like these - their actual content, and the intention behind singing them.
The 'Billy Boys' is an avowedly sectarian song - as shown in the line "We're up to our necks in fenian blood". Excuse my French, but if that line was changed to "******" or "faggot" blood then the whole world would be up in arms. But it's ok to sing anti-Catholic songs - "sure it's only an aul song, what harm will it do...".
The second consideration is the intention behind singing cxertaion songs. Singing the sash during a brand practise in an Orange Hall is of no offence or consequence to anyone. Singing it at a football game against Catholic opposition is clearly designed and intended to goad the opposition. Whilst the lyrics of The Sash may not be sectarian, singing it in that context clearly is.
Let me guess - singing "Rule Britannia" and "God save the Queen" were also just random songs they just happened to choose ? A small minority of Linfield fans may well sing these type of songs at most or all of their games, but when the context changes to one against a Catholic team it takes on a whol different meaning. To pretend that those singing such songs are blissfully unaware of this fact is naive in the extreme....
As for singing songs about the Pope - that is just sick. Ironic, given that the Linfield team were wearing black armbands. God knows how the Catholics in that team can leave the dressing room at each game, knowing that they're going to get abused. and then there's the monkey chants....
Longford has hardly been a hot-bed of Irish politics at any point in its history (Albert Reynolds aside) . If Linfield fans sing songs like those against Cork City in the final, for example, the reaction may not be as relaxed. It's a recipe for mayhem, and those singing the songs are well aware of it....
I'll say it again Fair play to the Longford supporters and not rising to them.. With many other groups of supporters there easily could have been trouble..
And as you say we'll see what happens if they play the likes of Cork
This piece in the Indo is in a section devoted to Pope John Paul II. What the feck does this match have to do with the pope?????
The cheek of them Linfield fans singing God Save The Queen and wearing Rangers jerseys and the Pope only dead a couple of days!!!!
Also the Linfield manager did come across as a nice bloke in the interview...
Football fans in "singing songs to wind up the opposition shocker"I'm no fan of the Sash, nor am I a fan of GSTQ or any of those songs, but they are only songs. The only thing I would be concerned about is the allegations of racist abuse against Lavine- that cannot be tolerated. As for everything else, let them sing away, very easy to drown these people out, or better still ignore them.
Steve, Linfield have thier muppets, Derry have their muppets, City do and so does EVERY other team on this island.
I would be fairly sure that the MAJORITY of Linfield fans went to Longford yesterday, had a good time, a few drinks, spent a little cash and then went and supported their team. There were a few who acted the maggot, and probably always will.
If we are lucky enough to get into the final and play Linfield, I dare say a few neanderthals from City will find their way to Landsdowne, but again, I'm fairly sure that the VAST MAJORITY of City fans will ignore them and try to drown them out.
Yes, when Armagh or Tyrone won those counties were delighted and went ape. The other 31 were disinterested.
International matches do attract fairweather supporters. Just like All-Irelands really. Getting a ticket to an All-Ireland with e.g. Cork in it is impossible. But try getting a ticket to see them earlier in the championship or even in teh league. Not much bother really.
I'd rather talk to any sports fan that is passionate about his sport rather than talk to bandwagon-jumpers of any sport.
"It's impossible to make a man understand something when his livelihood depends on him not understanding" Upton Sinclair
"They're only songs..." . The classic response. So making an anti-Catholic speech in public would be wrong, for example, but as soon as you put it to music it magically becomes harmless and ok ? If they'd been singing anti-black/Jewish/Muslim or any other type of songs there'd have been uproar - even if those were also "only songs". Sure - weren't the monkey chants only a wee bit of grunting ? No real harm done then. Probably just a few boys trying to clear their throats....Football fans in "singing songs to wind up the opposition shocker"
Why is it unacceptable for a minority of the Linfield fans (and it was a small minority) to be making monkey sounds at Eric Lavine, yet no big deal for them to be involved in sectarian chanting ? Anti-Catholic abuse is tolerated when it shouldn't be. It's unacceptable, just like anti-Protestant abuse or rascist abuse is unacceptable.
So you're cool with the songs about the Pope being dead then Eanna.......? You didn't mention it above. Sure anyway, t'was only a wee song......
Last edited by dcfcsteve; 05/04/2005 at 12:07 PM.
Actually doesn't surprise me, probably the two most hardcore/mad/whatever sets of fans on the island.
KOH
No One Likes Us, We Don't Care
Despite being from Dublin, I wouldn't watch 'the Dubs' in an All-Ireland cup final if they were playing in my back garden.
What absolute b**sh**t. Obviously the 35,000 who were in Paris were all "fair weather supporters". Many of those who travel regularly to support the Republic have a keen interest in the eircom League. If you travelled you would know that. There are others who have a passing interest in the eircom League and others who would rather spend their money travelling to Celtic Park, Anfield or Highbury. It's their money. Who am I (or you, for that matter) to tell them how to spend their own time and money?
Worth looking at the Linfield forum joey B pointed to above ( I'm a computer neanderthal can't do that hyperlink thing) - most of them as annoyed by the songs and flags and monkey chanting as anyone else; tickets were supposed to be confined to season ticket holders, but if you bought a bus ticket you didn't have to produce one. Anyway, for the OD linfield fan, these guys are as annoying as the Celtic shirt wearing 'republicans' are for us; Rangers fans importing Scottish/ English wannabee- ism. Still think it was enormously to their credit that they brought so many on a wet monday night; can only regret (again) that we're not in this cup.
God Save the Queen is not a racist or anti-catholic song. It is the national anthem of six counties of this island and the Linfield fans are well within their rights to sing it when they travel abroad to a soccer match.
It was a minority of about 40-50. the others were very well behaved as thankfully were all the Longford fans.
The songs about the Pope, racist taunts and "fenian bast%^d" are not acceptable nor is the Billy Boys which I didn't hear last night. The Sash is perceived as being a sectarian song albeit I doubt if many of the home fans recognized it. I've yet to understand why exactly given the words. I actually don't find Rule Britannia or GSTQ to be sectarian or offensive in anyway but no doubt there will be ********s in bars in the Shankhill tonight boasting how they bravely went to Longford and sang such them. No doubt they were probably in Rangers shirts too not Linfield shirts and won't be in Larne on saturday.
The club themselves behaved impeccably and the black armbands and the Linfield flag at half mast were huge gestures. David Jeffrey and his staff applauding the home fans was a great gesture as was the clapping of every Linfield substitute by the home fans.
One strange thing - I believe the security last night cost Longford €35,000 which included garda escorts to/from the border for the Blues fans. Why then were they allowed to wander around Longford for 3 hours drinking beer and eating burgers without any supervision? Doesn't that defeat the purpose? LoI clubs can barely afford to shell out €35K on security
Not much of the chanting came through on the TV. A couple of rounds of 'Billy Boys' and one chant ending in 'IRA' to the tune of Go West was all that could be taken as offensive, apart from 'Rule Brittania' which doesn't cause me any offence. I'm not particularly familiar with other chants but the monkey noises didn't come across thankfully.
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
I can't talk for 35,000 people anymore than you can republic, but what I can say is that I travelled to Paris with seven others, not a single one of them had (or has since) ever been at an EL game.
Cork City: Making 'Dream Team' seem realistic since 2007.
There was a good mixture there those who do go to EL matches and those who don't and I don't consider andy of them the lesser fan...
This Thread is about Linfield can we stick to it please??
Any Longford fans there?
Did you get much abuse?
How was the atmosphere in your area??
I'd love to if people didn't keep drifting off with sh!te like this.....
It's quite clear from the Longford threads on here that the majority of Longford fans appreciate that the Linfield 'fans' who indulged in the offensive chants were very much in the minority. It's also clear from the ILF that the majority of Linfield fans were embarased by the actions of this minority and that many among that minority aren't regulars.
I'm disappointed that all the focus today is on (as Gary mentioned) 30 or 40 idiots among the 650 people who travelled, as opposed to on the 610/620 who created a great atmosphere and the Longford fans who showed their visitors great respect.
Cork City: Making 'Dream Team' seem realistic since 2007.
35,000 goto Paris to see us play France, 19,000 go to Dublin to see us play Canada. I think you're fairly spot on there so. Event junkies is the phrase I'd use, and it would also sum up the feeling around Dublin if we made an all ireland final. Everyone would jump on the bandwagon yeah, then we'd lose and nobody would really care or we'd win and there'd be brief celebrations before the next league match in Parnell Park generates an attendence on an EL level.
So as not to drift off topic...
The chanting was bad yes, but on Linfields first visit to this country for a competitive match in god knows how long and the only thing worthy of mention as far as crowd trouble is concerned is a minority of their traveling support chanting a few things. I think that's fairly good in itself.
tictok I was using cork as an example in a response to DCFCSteve comment (couldn't use Galway cause were not in it) and it was on the topic it was to do with them playing Linfield and I do wonder if they will be as calm as the Longford lot!!
No, you're taking me up ALL wrong here. I was pointing out that GSTQ and the Sash are not sectarian songs- I don't like them, but they are NOT sectarian. If you read my post, you can see I said the monkey chanting "cannot be tolerated". As for the Billy Boys and other songs which ARE sectarian- they should not be tolerated either.
I never said it was ok for them to be involved in sectarian chanting. Its just as bad as racist chanting and has no place in any football ground, or anywhere else for that matter.
I didn't hear those songs, but of course they're not acceptable.
All I was saying is that the likelihood is that these morons were singing these songs to get a reaction, and ignoring (i.e. not reacting) them is quite possibly
the best way to shut them up. the likes of these fools only perform when they have an audience
And why wouldn't we be calm?tictok I was using cork as an example in a response to DCFCSteve comment (couldn't use Galway cause were not in it
Do you think there is some massive horde of orange-bashing, Protestant burning, Linfield haters just waiting to be insulted and offended by a few "Linfield fans" so we can attack them?....
MWAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!! LOL
you're tryign to get someone to bite???
its an anti-scottish song for one thing. The 6 counties is not a 'nation' so it has not got GSTQ as its 'national' anthem. they didnt travel 'abroad'...
****!
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