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Thread: Poland v Ireland - Wroclaw - Tuesday, 11th September 2018 - Friendly

  1. #41
    Reserves dynamo kerry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the 12 th man View Post
    Poland look like they are in a hurry to level it here,might leave a few gaps at the back..
    Well.. they walked that in. Hopefully these players will learn the benefit of tracking ...

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    Midfield looked noticably weaker after Williams went off, Meyler looked a bit sloppy straight away. With Hendrick off too and O'Dowda looking tired they were a bit exposed.

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    Feel sorry for the lads. Starting 11 put a massive shift in. The number of subs used and personnel that came on in CM cost us. Really impressed with the back 3 and Stevens as the LWB. Starting trio in midfield were also good. I’m hoping MO’N rewards the team in the next fixture. Ward, Clark & Walters should not walk back into the team.

    532 does suit us.

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    Positives for me; Egan, Stephens, Williams, O'Brien. All impressed, 3-5-2 definitely looked more solid, has to be worth a try in competitive fixtures.

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    o dowda so much better when not forced to stick out on the wing and allowed freedom to go and influence the game and be a creative presence

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    Keogh played very well throughout except for Polish goal.
    When Egan committed himself, Keogh was too slow to cover the run of the goalscorer.

    Great shifts from O’Brien, O’Dowda and Williams in particular.

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    First Team backstothewall's Avatar
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    As a disclaimer I missed most of the game due to my 6 year old having an existential crisis triggered by being told it was bed time.

    But from the comments above it sound like Williams played well. I'm sure it's been a proud week for him and his family, but I'm dubious about why he is getting this opportunity.

    He's going to be 32 next month. If he had got this opportunity 10 years ago who knows how many caps he might have had by now, and how that might have helped his club career. It's too bad that the opportunity never came when it might have mattered, but this feels like making the same mistake all over again.

    I'd sooner the chance have gone to Browne or Lenihan. Jack Byrne even. At their age they just have a lot more days ahead of them to build on the chance of being an international.
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    Quote Originally Posted by backstothewall View Post
    As a disclaimer I missed most of the game due to my 6 year old having an existential crisis triggered by being told it was bed time.

    But from the comments above it sound like Williams played well. I'm sure it's been a proud week for him and his family, but I'm dubious about why he is getting this opportunity.

    He's going to be 32 next month. If he had got this opportunity 10 years ago who knows how many caps he might have had by now, and how that might have helped his club career. It's too bad that the opportunity never came when it might have mattered, but this feels like making the same mistake all over again.

    I'd sooner the chance have gone to Browne or Lenihan. Jack Byrne even. At their age they just have a lot more days ahead of them to build on the chance of being an international.
    I get what you're saying and my first reaction is probably also to think that there is too little time for Williams to make an impact. But when you consider that Wessi won about 2/3rds of his caps after turning 32 and Jon Walters scored the 7th of his 14 international goals within a month of his 32nd, there is a case to be made that Williams could influence the next two campaigns - it's just a matter of whether he can prove himself to be good enough.

    That said, I do agree that Browne and Lenihan look like they're ready to step up and should be given the chance (I think Browne was injured this time out though), though Byrne has a long way to go yet

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    Williams will be 33 by euro 2020, Wes was 34 in Euro 2016. If he is good enough he is in, end of story.

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    Video of O'Brien's goal here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=tzKEA9WNVHY - lovely drop of the shoulder to beat his man and cross from O'Dowda and nice header from O'Brien who seemed to be really thrilled to score (it even looks like he might have shed a tear of joy) - with that attitude it'd be great if he could move his career up a level and give us another genuine option up front. Great to see that the players have reacted well to the pounding they got from Wales - remember this is a really inexperienced squad, with only 5 of the 17 who played tonight having more than a dozen caps. We're still waiting for McClean, Coleman, Brady, Long, Ward, Maguire and Browne to come back from injury. And hopefully Rice and Arter will return to the fold also. And for all the criticism directed at MON for being inflexible, he has taken the chance over the last few months to try out a new formation that is showing some promise and capped a bunch of young lads. So maybe the Nations League campaign won't be a catastrophe? Or maybe we should look at this whole period as an extended transitional period with a number of new caps and a couple of hammerings in store and forget about seeding and a back-door to the Euros, just get as many new lads settled before the qualifiers proper start.

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    Great goal, a well planned invasion of Polish territory, our manoeuvres out foxed the entrenched defences, O'Dowda
    fired in an accurate shot which split their shattered lines, allowing O'Brien to deliver a fatal blow.
    Such Blitzkrieg attacks are our best weapon, with such bravery who in Europe will not fall before us?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tricky_colour View Post
    Great goal, a well planned invasion of Polish territory, our manoeuvres out foxed the entrenched defences, O'Dowda
    fired in an accurate shot which split their shattered lines, allowing O'Brien to deliver a fatal blow.
    Such Blitzkrieg attacks are our best weapon, with such bravery who in Europe will not fall before us?
    Wales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tricky_colour View Post
    Great goal, a well planned invasion of Polish territory, our manoeuvres out foxed the entrenched defences, O'Dowda
    fired in an accurate shot which split their shattered lines, allowing O'Brien to deliver a fatal blow.
    Such Blitzkrieg attacks are our best weapon, with such bravery who in Europe will not fall before us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin View Post
    Wales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diggs246 View Post
    Williams will be 33 by euro 2020, Wes was 34 in Euro 2016. If he is good enough he is in, end of story.
    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Wes was good enough a long time before 2016.

    In 2006 Wes was 24 and playing for Livingston. We gave 45 minutes of a friendly against Holland to 32 year old Graham Kavanagh.

    In 2009 Wes was playing for Norwich City at the top of league 1. We gave a couple of caps to 30 year old Martin Rowlands. (Similarly to Williams I remember him playing well before suffering that horrific injury)

    We need to break this cycle. The reality is it takes 10-15 caps before anybody settles into being an international. Williams did a decent job, but there is very little between him Lenihan as players. If circumstances mean there is an opportunity to introduce someone new, particularly in a friendly, we must prioritise youth.

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    Really happy for Williams. From an egotistic point of view I am happy that I predicted recently that he could still play a role for us. For those of you who would like to take me down for such arrogance see his thread! ��

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    Quote Originally Posted by liamoo11 View Post
    Attitude totally different. Randolph has thrown it out and passed It out more than in Last Ten games combined. Midfield including hendrick wanting It to feet from The centre halves .o brien holding up nicely fairly quick feet looking to link
    I think this is because for reasons best known to themselves, the Poles sat back and allowed us play out. Normally teams push up on us therefore forcing the panicky hoof.

    As ever, when we took the lead, we started to drop further and further back which was a shame as the Poles had looked bereft of ideas for most of the game and we sort of handed them the initiative. Still, we didn't lose despite the forecast of doom from some quarters but the win would have been nice.

    Doherty looked a bit disinterested when he came on. On one occasion he stopped playing appealing for a free kick which wasn't given. On an other, he didn't track back. Anyway, not enough time to judge him on (bizarre that he didn't start). Christie gives us a fair bit going forward which to be honest we badly need but is that enough to outweigh his other faults ? Possibly but not sure. You've got to love Keogh, limitations and all. So wholehearted even in a friendly.

    So, a small bit of the gloom surrounding the team lifted. Such a shame though it wasn't a win.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

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  22. #57
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    OK, this is not a "green shoots" post but I think there are some useful nuggets to learn from last night, notably - and as per shakermaker - Ward, Clark and Walters need to drop down the pecking order.

    This was a low intensity, low key game against an uninspired Poland and we shipped chances that had they been taken might have led to a comfortable defeat. It'd be easy to dwell on the negatives though. Given the recent horror shows it's best to focus on what went right.

    For me:
    - All 3 CBs have put themselves into contention. It's not like Duffy and Clark are irreplaceable, but Duffy would probably be the mainstay
    - The shape worked for this starting XI. Unlike Cardiff, every starter was handed a role/position that suited him and as a consequence the team had balance until the subs
    - Williams policed the deep midfield position well but didn't assert himself enough on the ball for me. He usually has good ideas on the ball at club level but we didn't see that bar one or two glimpses last night. When he went off we looked more vulnerable through the middle, though obviously you'd expect Poland to up the tempo chasing a late equaliser
    - Stevens made two dreadful errors, or a bad slip and one error. His slip nearly gifted Poland a headed goal and he made a rash lunge midway through the second half. But even still, I prefer him to Ward. He just looks like more of a natural left back and brings balance down that side. I think he curbed his attacking instincts last night in favour of just doing the nuts and bolts well in order not to make O'Neill doubt him. More to come from him I think and I'd start him in October.
    - Christie: God loves a trier I suppose. I admire his willingness to attack and he made one great run but he loses the ball cheaply in dangerous areas too.
    - Robinson: I'm expecting to see a proper attacking footballer on the ball but he didn't show me much last night. Needs more time.
    - Egan: I've heard criticism for the equaliser but he had a decision to make. It looked to me like Hourihane failed to cut out the first ball and Doherty didn't pick the runner. Doherty's face immediately afterwards said it all to me, he knew he'd been done. A bit earlier in the move O'Dowda was a bit slow to smell danger too. Egan took a step forward and immediately retreated. Was this fatal? I'm not sure. His opponent gave a first time return pass which he'd have been able to make anyway. The biggest error was letting Glick run free in my opinion. Solid outing from Egan and as Trap might say "he has personality"
    - Kevin Long's passing is rubbish. I liked Egan's willingness to pass short in tight spaces. It set the tone, whereas I think Duffy's hoofing sets an opposite tone when he plays. Egan has something to offer us and I'd tolerate a few errors from him while he finds his feet at this level
    - O'Dowda sometimes overruns the ball but at times he was very good yesterday. Playing more centrally suits him and benefits the team.
    - Hendrick: a bit better from him playing a more natural role and anchored by Williams
    - O'Brien. I liked him and his attitude but I think his layoffs and short passes were sloppy and play broke down a few times due to this. Useful squad addition though and it'd be interesting to see him near or alongside Shane Long.
    - Keogh: as Owls Fan says, you gotta love his attitude. He did well enough I think but if O'Neill reverts to 2 CBs it'll be Duffy and Long I think. Keogh would be ahead of Clark in either a 2 or 3 man CB unit.
    - Doherty wasn't as impressive as I wanted when he came on. I really wanted him to make a point to O'Neill and he didn't. Coleman may miss October (stress fracture to his foot) and I think Christie will be preferred by O'Neill.
    - We had lost our shape by the time Burke came which probably explains his anonymity; Hourihane can't get on the ball at this level from what I can see; Horgan was given a thankless task and I'd prefer to see him start a game. I really think O'Neill mustn't rate Judge.

    And we scored a very nice, unusually telegenic goal. Credit where it's due.
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 13/09/2018 at 8:08 AM.

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  24. #58
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Excellent summary, most of which I'd agree with. I think you're a bit harsh on the goals we score though. Not all are from hoof balls but without delving in to the archives (my memory isn't quite what it used to be) I can't actually cite chapter and verse.

    I wonder when was the last time an Irish team started with two Sheffield United players in the line-up. And speaking of which, where is David McGoldrick these days?
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker1982 View Post
    Feel sorry for the lads. Starting 11 put a massive shift in. The number of subs used and personnel that came on in CM cost us. Really impressed with the back 3 and Stevens as the LWB. Starting trio in midfield were also good. I’m hoping MO’N rewards the team in the next fixture. Ward, Clark & Walters should not walk back into the team.

    532 does suit us.
    Ward should have been gone from the team about 8 years ago. As soon as he walked in.

    Clark and Ward have been very poor the last few games particularly Wales game. Many others deserve a chance, save keogh he has had chances
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    I dont think we can read too much into these one off friendlies to be honest. I'm sure it will revert to same once the October friendlies turn around, i mean in terms of personnel and how we play - but i dont expect us to get tonked again like denmark at home. Therefore I dont feel much positivity to be gleaned from Tuesday night.

    Will this draw give us uefa qualification points? If so will we go up ? I guess given the loss to wales who are already ahead of us doesnt matter so much, but a draw should keep us somewhere around where we are?
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