I think there is a difference between being the above and McCarthy's jubilation at getting a point after being 2 up.Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Kerr says that while he is disappointed with dropping 2 points, he is content with a draw (almost the exact words McCarthy used after the 2-2 in Holland that Saipan Keane ranted and raved about).
What do we get from Saipan Keane ?: "These things happen in football" he says.
The Dutch result wasn't because we fell back like in the Israel game: Harte messed up at the far post for the first and a deflected shot for the second. Against mighty Israel we play for a 1-0 and no rant from Keane ? Huh.
The times they are a changin'.
I think there is a difference between being the above and McCarthy's jubilation at getting a point after being 2 up.
UCD sha-la-la
Only reason Kerr could be happy with 1 point is using some sort of mind games with the players.
I didn't see any of the Irish players or Kerr jumping about with joy after the result on Saturday. He has to put a brave face on it in interviews and try to be positive. I'll bet the reaction in the dressing room was much more self crtrical (from the players and the manager) than in the interviews. That's what counts not what was said publically.
"I'd rather play in front of a full house than an empty crowd" Johnny Giles
Exactly.
I wish I had your unshakable optimism! I think we will, then I don't, then I do...
In a way I wish we were playing Cyprus away tomorrow, or Israel at home. Someone would be on the end of a pretty big backlash.
At home I can't see us being so cautious. Put our best players out there and we can give anyone a beating.
I feel that there are a number of people on this board waiting in the long grass for Kerr. Some with totally different agendas. But I think that Dunphy, Brady and Cathal Dervan are just waiting. Dunphy called him windy on the RTE the other night. There are also a few here on this board who are waiting for it too. I dont think its fair to bring your anti Keane pro Mc Carthy views againts Kerr.
Kerr was not in Saipan he is just following Mc Carthy. However I do think that the main difference betweeen the two games is the players walked off the pitch disgusted on Saturday night justl ike Roy Keane did in Holland. However the manager in Amsterdam was delighted and jumping up and down and the players were celbrating in the dressing room. The dressing room in Israel was locked on sat night and no reporters could get a an interview for a good while afterwards.
In Trap we trust
Sorry if that was not clear I meant to say that Kerr is just Mc Carthys successor and never put himself forward as the anti Mc Carthy or he has never had a go at Mc Carthys reign.
In Trap we trust
Fair play to you OwlsFan. I'm glad you started this thread because the same thing was on my mind as I read the after-match quotes over the weekend. Firstly, McCarthy didnt jump around with jubilation after the game in Amsterdam, and even if he did, he would have more of a right to do so than Kerr. Ireland drew against the Euroe 2000 semi-finalists on that occasion. We played some great football that night against a team with some world-class players. We created lots of chances and didnt set out with the negative attitude that Kerr's team did. Keane ranted after the game, simply to undermine McCarthy. How come he didnt do the same last Saturday night? This just shows how hypocritical Keane is. A few months ago, Keane sat in a press conference with Kerr, and gave some cheap shots about how things had changed since McCarthy left. Kerr sat there with a grin on his face. However, the honeymoon phase is over for Kerr. It might not be long until he faces a backlash. Its alright winning friendly games in Lansdowne, but Kerr has yet to win a big competitive game as manager of this team. We've drawn with Russia at home, lost to the Swiss in Basel, drew with the Swiss in Basel, and drew with Israel in Tel Aviv. From what I can see, the only creditible result in a big game was the 0-0 draw in Paris. Kerr talks a good game but it's time for him to start producing the victories that will send us to the World Cup.
As for Keane, I'm delighted to see him back playing for Ireland. It is important that we send out our best 11 players, and Keane is still our best midfielder. However, I hope I don't hear anyone else telling me how the man has principles. If that was so, he would have had a rant after Ireland's appalling performance and collapse last Saturday night, just like he did during McCarthy's tenure. As for him questioning other people's professionalism, how unprofessional was it of him to pick up that silly booking against Israel. He will now miss the return game in June. At the back of my mind I'm wondering did he get booked, simply to miss the Israel and the Faroes game in June. I hope not, but time will tell how professional Roy really is. If he turns up and plays against the Faroes, then fair play to him. He might prove a few of us wrong.
"Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe." Dillo
Keane got booked just like Kilbane got booked in that they broght down an Israeli player that was running straight at the heart of the Irish defence if they were not brought down. Some times you have to take a booking for the team. Kilbane did it and then Keane did it. The stupid booking was Carr's one. Of course keane will be at the Faroes in June if he is fit just like any other player.
I dont think anybody here can defend the way Ireland played on Sat. I thought were very negative but to bring up the Holland game is pure rubbish. That night we played really really well and only drew. As Johnny Giles says you should only be happy with a draw if you have played rubbish and drew. I think it was fairly obvious from the the faces that the players were seriously ****ed off on Sat night. This was not obvious in Amserdam and the manager was jumping for joy etc, despite throwing away a 2 goal lead
In Trap we trust
So you're saying that its ok to be happy with a draw against mighty Israel and unhappy with a draw against Holland. That's rubbish.
As for the boy Roy, lets just hope he makes it for the game against the Faroes. He didn't make it for the home game against Andorra in 2001. By June, Roy may be an FA Cup winner again, and after a long, hard season with Unided, he may have "nothing to prove". One things for sure, I know Kevin Kilbane will be there.
"Love many, trust few, always paddle your own canoe." Dillo
NO, I think we should be dissappointed with both draws to be honnest. We are dissappointed with this draw, Kerr is , Keane is and the rest of the team are . There is not doubt that the attitude has changed. Everybody leading up to this game was saying the felt the should win it, from Keane to Duff to Given. In Kerrs post match interviews he was trying to put a positive spin on it but you can see from his face etc that he was seriously ****ed off. I think that quotes sometimes dont tell the whole story. Anybody who saw the interviews with him etc will see that he was not happy with the draw but was trying to put across some sort of context to the draw. .
Of course Kilbane will be there and Keane will be there too. I have no doubts that if any player in the Irish squad is fit and is picked they will turn up.
In Trap we trust
Excellent posts JamacianPM. Agree 100% with what you say.
Remember in the Dutch game Kilbane almost made it 3-1 after they'd got one back. Mick congratulated his players on the field as was his right. There were no highland jigs or wild celebrations was some may claim but Mick (as were most of us) rightly proud that we had gone to the Amsterdam Arena and come away with a draw after outplaying the Dutch. He also said almost verbatim what Kerr said at the press conference - disappointed with the Dutch coming back but if someone had offered him a point before the game he would have taken it. But Kerr doesn't have Keane trying to undermine him - that's the difference.
Everyone rejoices that we got a 0-0 in France. Mick Mc got castigated because his team outplayed the Dutch, scored two classic goals and were unlucky to be clawed back to a 2-2 draw.
As for the guy who talks about us now having a positive attitude - what a joke. As I have said before maying token statements that we're going to win and then playing a totally defensive game is pure PR stuff from the Keane pr factory and is meaningless in real terms.
Dunphy doesn't have an agenda for Kerr - he has an agenda for every Irish manager because the poison dwarf loves to be at the centre of the storm attracting attention to himself.
I agree with you about Dunphy but if he has an agenda for every manager then surely he has an agenda for Kerr as Kerr is the Ireland manager.
In Trap we trust
An agenda for Kerr in particular, although when he was first appointed it (Dumpy) said he doubted whether he'd have the experience to make a go of the job.
I said he had to be positive about the result. If anyone seriously thinks Kerr is going to come out in a post match interview and start wringing his hands castigating his players then they are dreaming. I was at the Holland match and while disappointed at the final whistle I too was very proud of how the team played against a quality outfit like the Dutch. IF you had given us the point before the match I like most Irish fans would have taken it. I had no problem with the team been happy getting the draw on the night in Amsterdam. Israel are a different matter. They are an average team and we should righly be disappointed by only achieving the draw. I would expect the team and manager to be disappointed and from what I saw after the final whistle they were. There were no celebrations after the whistle went and rightly so. Whether RK rants or not doesn't make any difference to me. It won't change the result so why go on about it.
"I'd rather play in front of a full house than an empty crowd" Johnny Giles
I think people should realise that Roy Keane is hardly in a position to
go shooting his mouth of is he?
Daftest thread I have read since the last one.
He also said: "We should still have killed the game off. We could have done more in the second half in terms of possession and testing their goalkeeper."What do we get from Saipan Keane ?: "These things happen in football" he says.
Some hypocrisy there eh? I suppose you only quote the bits that support your own world view.
Keane was disgusted when the equaliser went in, and looked pretty pi$$ed off at the end as well. I'm sure he aired his views in the privacy of the dressing room afterwards, as did Kerr. What more do you want? Ye are complaining that Keane DIDN'T rant, or try to undermine his team mates or his manager?!
The crucial difference is that Keane respects and trusts Brian Kerr, whereas he never respected or trusted McCarthy, because McCarthy never really trusted him.
How do you know that Roy Keane respects Kerr!!!
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