Wales V Republic of Ireland - Cardiff - 6th September 2018 - UEFA Nations League

**jbyrne** · 07/09/2018, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by zero

MON wouldn't dare put bristol city squad player calum o'dowda's place at risk.

who is one of our few players who actually looks comfortable on the ball and can do something positive with it....

**zero** · 07/09/2018, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I said in my preview that even with the withdrawals we have good players, not great, but good and good enough to at least stand up and be counted. Anyway, this morning I listed to a full hour of analysis on OTB with Cunningham, Breen and Andrews and John Hartson from the Welsh angle.

The 3 Irish guys' views were largely the same and can be summarised as:
- The selection was poor. Our 2 in midfield were just swamped by a high quality 3 in midfield for Wales.
- We failed to adapt to this, just as we failed to adapt to Denmark's dominance in Dublin (then we actually made it worse)
- The players played poorly. In the past pulling on the green shirt brought better performances from players than many were used to delivering at club level. These days the players play WORSE than at their clubs. This is a management failure.
-Hendrick and Hourihane were both picked as a vanilla 2 man midfield, expected to sit deep, yet neither plays deep at club level; each is used to arriving late in the attacking third of the pitch
- Management (despite MON, Keane, Guppy & Walford all being prominent) admit to not working on systems, shape etc.
- Last night, yet again, there was no obvious pattern, shape or system. This is a "systemic failure" of management.
- Other sides work on their shape and systems so why can't we? EVERY other side does it.
- Despite being critical of both individual performances and management's role, and tearing apart the impact of management, all 3 declined to call for a change (actually I didn't hear Breen's final remarks). Hartson said he is too close to MON to comment.
- Despite the absentees we had our strongest back 5 out.

So,
-I have to say I agree with all of this, except for the strongest back 5 bit. I think the May friendlies showed Kevin Long is deserving of a start over Clark, and actually Stevens is deserving of a start over Ward. So too was Williams based on his Paris performance. Lenihan looks a player too and a threat from set pieces
- Hartson said we played 451. I don't think so.
- Why no Meyler? No world beater but his absence left the space in front of our back 4 too open. allen had acres of space for the first goal
- No mention at all of Matt Doherty, far more influential at Wolves than Christie at Fulham
- No mention that Stevens and Horgan - our only credible out ball in the absence of Judge - looked like a great "unit" on the left versus USA, and did so again briefly last night
- They let management off too lightly. Faced with the charge sheet aimed at them, their position is totally untenable in my opinion.
- We played 352 in 3 games since Denmark. He went back to 4411 in the next competitive game. Weird to say the least.

There is just no way this set up can continue. NI and Iceland are great examples of organisation. The WC showed lots of "lesser" teams being hard to play against because of their shape and system off the ball. We didn't have one. That's just unforgivable especially when MON says he doesn't have time to create a system. 2nd place is crucial in the Nations League. That's a very tall order now.

I'd give the job to McCarthy tomorrow. Even Kerr again.

agree with all of the above.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/09/2018, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by zero

we were a rabble last night, reminded me of the austria away game under trap.

We only lost that 1-0, 75th minute goal. Not comparable.

**Diggs246** · 07/09/2018, 5:08 PM

Originally Posted by zero

agree with all of the above.

Great post. But dont agree on Kerr

**Fixer82** · 07/09/2018, 5:10 PM

Originally Posted by Diggs246

Great post. But dont agree on Kerr

Same as that.
We were awful under Kerr. Except for in friendlies strangely enough

**shakermaker1982** · 07/09/2018, 6:05 PM

McCarthy is not the answer. Look at what was at his disposal (see below!). Kerr loves a 12 hour video session but I don’t think that will work with the Instagram generation.

The players tend to avoid scrutiny following a humiliating defeat. All 4 goals were down to mistakes from individual players - they also need to be held accountable. I’d love to be at the post game review with Clark. So that Gareth Bale chap who is world renowned for being brilliant with his left foot. Talk us through your thought process on that one Mr Clark.

I was looking through some old team sheets and it’s a depressing read.

Ireland vs Holland 2001

Given, G Kelly, Dunne, Staunton, Harte, McAteer (O'Brien 90), Holland, Roy Keane, Kilbane, Duff (Quinn 87), Robbie Keane (Finnan 59).

Ireland vs Italy 2009

Given; O’Shea, Dunne, St Ledger, Kilbane; Lawrence, Andrews, Whelan, McGeady; Keane, Doyle.

Wales vs Ireland 2018

D Randolph, S Coleman (c), S Duffy ,C Clark , S Ward, C Christie , J Hendrick , C Hourihane, C O'Dowda , J Walters, C Robinson

Something drastic needs to happen ASAP if we don’t want to fall further behind. Relying on English clubs to train promising youngsters is not the answer. The FAI nvested in regional centres which is a great idea but I really do fear for our future. Particularly with kids seeing the success of the Irish rugby teams and dominance of the Dubs at GAA.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/09/2018, 7:02 PM

Originally Posted by Diggs246

Great post. But dont agree on Kerr

the Kerr remark was largely tongue in cheek though if I could wake up in the morning with a choice of Kerr over O'Neill it'd be Kerr.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/09/2018, 7:07 PM

Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

McCarthy is not the answer. Look at what was at his disposal (see below!). Kerr loves a 12 hour video session but I don’t think that will work with the Instagram generation.

The players tend to avoid scrutiny following a humiliating defeat. All 4 goals were down to mistakes from individual players - they also need to be held accountable. I’d love to be at the post game review with Clark. So that Gareth Bale chap who is world renowned for being brilliant with his left foot. Talk us through your thought process on that one Mr Clark.

I was looking through some old team sheets and it’s a depressing read.

Ireland vs Holland 2001

Given, G Kelly, Dunne, Staunton, Harte, McAteer (O'Brien 90), Holland, Roy Keane, Kilbane, Duff (Quinn 87), Robbie Keane (Finnan 59).

Ireland vs Italy 2009

Given; O’Shea, Dunne, St Ledger, Kilbane; Lawrence, Andrews, Whelan, McGeady; Keane, Doyle.

Wales vs Ireland 2018

D Randolph, S Coleman (c), S Duffy ,C Clark , S Ward, C Christie , J Hendrick , C Hourihane, C O'Dowda , J Walters, C Robinson

Something drastic needs to happen ASAP if we don’t want to fall further behind. Relying on English clubs to train promising youngsters is not the answer. The FAI nvested in regional centres which is a great idea but I really do fear for our future. Particularly with kids seeing the success of the Irish rugby teams and dominance of the Dubs at GAA.

yes of course the players need to be accountable but many of the ex-pros' remarks are surely very true:

Management don't work on a system. Every other team on the planet does
Players are asked to play roles that don't suit them
Players play worse for Ireland than at their clubs
We're simply a shapeless, strategy-less shambles

Did anyone else notice how we botched our own kick off to start the game? A perfect metaphor for the rest of the game.

**tricky_colour** · 07/09/2018, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by jbyrne

that wales team will be better then the version that reached the euro semis.
we were bad but i thought wales were very very good

Bale is worth more than the entire Irish team!

**brine3** · 08/09/2018, 10:41 PM

Didn't see the match. Thankfully I've stopped watching the Irish team. It's just too painful.

Maybe that makes me a bad fan, I dunno. But there's only so much needless self-torture a human can put up with.

**Diggs246** · 08/09/2018, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by brine3

Didn't see the match. Thankfully I've stopped watching the Irish team. It's just too painful.

Maybe that makes me a bad fan, I dunno. But there's only so much needless self-torture a human can put up with.

We win ltogether, we lose together baby

**brine3** · 08/09/2018, 11:55 PM

Watched every Irish competitive match for three decades. Been to a number of away matches. Slept in airports waiting for flight connections. But the Ireland team has now become a an ego trip gig for over the hill managers to cash in on their reputation. The Denis O'Brien money has been an absolute curse.

I have no beef with the players, but I'm fed up of being taken for a ride by the FAI and the management.

**liamoo11** · 09/09/2018, 7:07 AM

Maybe people will stop with the lazy iceland comparison after yesterday. They should not be the yardstick

**ifk101** · 09/09/2018, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by liamoo11

Maybe people will stop with the lazy iceland comparison after yesterday. They should not be the yardstick

Iceland is the yardstick to what can be achieved with limited resources. That's the comparison. The laziness is an acceptance we don't have the players when the focus should be on maximising the resources available to us.

**jbyrne** · 09/09/2018, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by ifk101

Iceland is the yardstick to what can be achieved with limited resources. That's the comparison. The laziness is an acceptance we don't have the players when the focus should be on maximising the resources available to us.

we have been the iceland many times. once no 6 ranked in the world if my memory is correct, 1/4 final in 90, wc last 16 in 94 and 02.

for every iceland there is a holland, italy, chilie.......

**IsMiseSean** · 09/09/2018, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by brine3

Watched every Irish competitive match for three decades. Been to a number of away matches. Slept in airports waiting for flight connections. But the Ireland team has now become a an ego trip gig for over the hill managers to cash in on their reputation. The Denis O'Brien money has been an absolute curse.

I have no beef with the players, but I'm fed up of being taken for a ride by the FAI and the management.

I couldn't have put it better myself. Except I still go through the torture of watching on TV.

It'll be a long time before I pay to watch or follow the Irish team again.

**mypost** · 09/09/2018, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I have to say I agree with all of this, except for the strongest back 5 bit. I think the I'd give the job to McCarthy tomorrow. Even Kerr again.

Don't get the clamour for Mick. There must be a reason why no English club wants him nowadays. He's not known for particularly open, expansive football. And Kerr isn't known as a attacking, free flowing coach either. His greatest "success" was with the Faroes, when all he had to do was park the bus again and again and again. Even when losing, so they could keep the score respectable.

That doesn't mean the current coach should still be there. Surely there must be a coach out there who understands the fundamental requirements of his job, can get the team organised without needing to park the bus, and doesn't fly off the handle with the media.

This one has already lost to Scotland, Poland, Serbia, Denmark, and Wales. And to be fair, only just lost out to Belarussia, Iceland, Turkey, Mexico and numerous others.

Atm, the rugger buggers are doing well, we have gymnasts, athletes, rowers, and hockey players setting new records and standards. If the FAI don't get their act together, the Ireland international could be well down in the publics priorities soon enough.