Shels Stad move still on?!

**Bald Student** · 04/04/2005, 1:03 PM

Ringo,
Like Mullet Student, I'm not a planning expert either but I don't see any problem with the sale of this land. Speaking in rough numbers the site is worth about 40 million about half of which is due to Shels if it is sold. The corpo doesn't need to raise finance to buy out Shels as the sale of the site will more than cover that.
The corpo will then have achieved two aims. It will see housing being built in the area and it will have about 20 million euro to invest in social housing. Well done corpo, well done Shels. Everyone, even the rate payers, is happy.

P.S. Is there not housing being built in Ballymun? I saw photos in the papers recently of machinery at work there.

**higgins** · 04/04/2005, 1:20 PM

The reason for the move is to have all shels teams playing out of the 1 area. This will give shels a saving of over 150,000 a year in various rents from underage teams to training for full squad.

The sale of Tolka is funding the move to the new stadium so this talk of wait and save for a few years is not possible. If anything the longer we wait in Tolka the more money we lose. Its a case of grabbing the bull by the horns and taking a chance on something while we can.

Land values in the area are crazy and it seems right to take advantage of these at the moment. Also the north county Dublin/Fingal area is not going to get Cheaper either so its probably best to build there and then let the area build up around us.

You say there is room for building in Tolka? No there isnt. It will never grow past anything in the region of 15,000 seats and that will take an awful lot of work. Thinking in the long term Tolka is not the spot we should be in so the sooner we move the better as putting money into it is like throwing it away.

The move from Tolka is a good one.

Only trouble with it is the location of the site could possibly be a little better. Shels have not giving us any idea of how they will provide access to the site and I dont thin they have any idea of transport links in the area.

The move is needed the location is the worry.

**S�C** · 04/04/2005, 1:30 PM

Update your sig file there Higgins will ya?

**higgins** · 04/04/2005, 1:34 PM

On May 21st I'll update it

You really want to go take Setanta Cup games?

**Student Mullet** · 04/04/2005, 7:14 PM

Originally Posted by Ringo

I'll agree, you are no expert in planning if you think its that simple.

The implication here Ringo is that you are an expert in the area. Is that the case?

**Ringo** · 04/04/2005, 9:56 PM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

The implication here Ringo is that you are an expert in the area. Is that the case?

I never claimed to an expert. I am however involved in Buying & selling property. The Tolka issue is a strange one. If you think of you own a building , would you give half. the proceeds from the sale to your tenant?. If shels were entitled to 20 million from Tolka one of the big builders would have bought shels by now. Look at the rovers situation. A number of People want to buy into Rovers, not for the club but for the land. If you have a lease, it has a value , it is worth what someone will pay you for it. It could be worth millions or nothing. Normally in a lease you agree to pay "x rent" & keep the leased property in good condition ( in tolkas case its expensive). Did shels buy the lease from another club or get it from DCC? One wonders if its worth so much , why they don't go to the open market & sell it.

**Ringo** · 04/04/2005, 10:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Ringo,
Like Mullet Student, I'm not a planning expert either but I don't see any problem with the sale of this land. Speaking in rough numbers the site is worth about 40 million about half of which is due to Shels if it is sold. The corpo doesn't need to raise finance to buy out Shels as the sale of the site will more than cover that.
The corpo will then have achieved two aims. It will see housing being built in the area and it will have about 20 million euro to invest in social housing. Well done corpo, well done Shels. Everyone, even the rate payers, is happy.

P.S. Is there not housing being built in Ballymun? I saw photos in the papers recently of machinery at work there.

I don't understand why How Shels could be entitled to half the proceeds. Why would rate payers be happy?Shels is a private company, why would anyone want a private company to make a load of money at the expence of the rate payers. The point about Ballymun was that there is plenty of land & DCC are building house's there at the moment.

**Slash/ED** · 04/04/2005, 10:06 PM

Yeah sorry your right Ringo, Shels are giving away Tolka for free and building the new 27m stadium out of pocket change lying around Ollies house.

**Ringo** · 04/04/2005, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

Yeah sorry your right Ringo, Shels are giving away Tolka for free and building the new 27m stadium out of pocket change lying around Ollies house.

if you can get anyone including DCC to give you anywhere near the amount of money being talked about here, i'll become a Shels fan myself

. I'll then name my next Child Ollie. If he can pull of a deal like that he'll be one of the best businessmen i've i ever met. I wouldn't expect you to give up Tolka for free. You will make money, but the sums being talked about are crazy. Can someone from Shels give us some idea where these figures are coming from. Can you show a similar deal, thats happened elsewhere , that makes to money talked about stand up.

**Schumi** · 05/04/2005, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Ringo

If you think of you own a building , would you give half. the proceeds from the sale to your tenant?

If the alternative is waiting 70 years (or however long the lease is for) for the money, then I probably would!

**Ringo** · 06/04/2005, 7:16 AM

Had a talk with someone yesterday about this whole debate. The real thing being looked at is The city Council Selling Tolka, building & a new stadium with the money. Shels would then get a new lease on the new stadium. Dublin City council would still own the stadium & shels would still be tenants. Its unlikely thta DCC would buiid the new stadium outside their boundries. This sound very straight forward to me & would make sence.

**monkey magic** · 06/04/2005, 8:58 AM

correct me if im wrong, but would a move to a highly populated area like, say for instance, blanchardstown not make a helluva lot more sense than relocating to "the country"

**CuanaD** · 06/04/2005, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Ringo

I never claimed to an expert. I am however involved in Buying & selling property. The Tolka issue is a strange one. If you think of you own a building , would you give half. the proceeds from the sale to your tenant?. If shels were entitled to 20 million from Tolka one of the big builders would have bought shels by now. Look at the rovers situation. A number of People want to buy into Rovers, not for the club but for the land. If you have a lease, it has a value , it is worth what someone will pay you for it. It could be worth millions or nothing. Normally in a lease you agree to pay "x rent" & keep the leased property in good condition ( in tolkas case its expensive). Did shels buy the lease from another club or get it from DCC? One wonders if its worth so much , why they don't go to the open market & sell it.

The point is DCC's need for development/housing land. If they re-zone Tolka, the land value becomes (x), but only if they can sell it to developers. Therefore they have to buy out Shels lease to be able to sell on - the value of the Shels lease is then related to the sale value. If it were to be sold for housing 30-40million would be reasonable IMO. half of the sale value to buy out the lease would also seem reasonable.
However the citymanager's reply seems to be looking more towards Z10 - to develop more indusrtial units along that side of richmond road - this would be worth less in sale values. I think this is a bargening tool being used by DCC to allow them to offer less to Shels (probably in the reagion of 10 milion). However, with the curent developments along that side of richmond being large scale appartments, I would feel that an appartment development will be most likely. (DCC could always rezone as Z10, then pay Shels half, then rezone again for housing - probably netting DCC an extra 10million! - this seems the most likely outcome to me)

(BTW, yes I would have some development knowledge & some dealings with DCC - but that dosent mean I know what I'm talking about

)

**CuanaD** · 06/04/2005, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by monkey magic

correct me if im wrong, but would a move to a highly populated area like, say for instance, blanchardstown not make a helluva lot more sense than relocating to "the country"

Swords is the fastest growing town in Ireland at the mo'. Lissenhall would be easily accesable from Swords, Malahide & Donabate - thats 60,000 people in a 3 mile catchment area. Plus, the site is easily accesable off the new M1 interchange - meaning easily accesable from all areas of the city by car.

Public transport is bad in the area - but the physical infrastructure (roads) is there already.

**Slash/ED** · 06/04/2005, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Ringo

Had a talk with someone yesterday about this whole debate. The real thing being looked at is The city Council Selling Tolka, building & a new stadium with the money. Shels would then get a new lease on the new stadium. Dublin City council would still own the stadium & shels would still be tenants. Its unlikely thta DCC would buiid the new stadium outside their boundries. This sound very straight forward to me & would make sence.

So what are you saying, that they're not moving to Lissenhall at all and there's a new site being looked at atm or have I completley misunderstood you?

**thejollyrodger** · 06/04/2005, 12:35 PM

plus Lissenhall isnt too far from Dublin airport. It will mean easier access for teams flying in to play Shels.

**Ringo** · 06/04/2005, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

So what are you saying, that they're not moving to Lissenhall at all and there's a new site being looked at atm or have I completley misunderstood you?

You'd probably know more about it, tham me. it was just an observation.I was suggesting than DCC would be more likly to do something in their are rather than in Fingals.