Shels Stad move still on?!

**Slash/ED** · 31/03/2005, 6:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ringo

With a lease, you can sell it on, but only with the landlords consent. If Dublin City Council want to they can refuse to allow shels to sell to a third party. Why would the City Council give a private Company( which shels is) a load of money? Where would they get it & why wouldn't every other Dublin club not feel cheated.

If you feel cheated, that's your business. But you're being incredibley niave and a bit stupid if you think shels are just giving up Tolka Park without getting a penny for it then moving to stadium that will cost enough to run the club for a well over a decade, hopeing Olly will find the 27m under his couch or something.

**Ringo** · 31/03/2005, 9:36 PM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

If you feel cheated, that's your business. But you're being incredibley niave and a bit stupid if you think shels are just giving up Tolka Park without getting a penny for it then moving to stadium that will cost enough to run the club for a well over a decade, hopeing Olly will find the 27m under his couch or something.

You're being incredibley niave and a bit stupid, too use your quote to think you'll get a bag of money and be alowed to walk away. Not every rate payer in Dublin or householder is a Shelbourne fan. The lease has a value , no one suggesting its not worth something, i just don't think its going to work for Shelbourne. The basis for all the talk about money is based on some notion that it can be re-zoned & a load of apartments can be built on it. Don't think the locals would like to see it re-zoned & by ensuring the new apartments don't flood , it would cause another flood somewhere else ( the water has to go somewhere). Every person who lives along the Tolka would not like to see their home put under more risk of flooding. Having a lease also ties Shelbourne to Tolka unless they can sell it on. A lease works both ways.
The best Shelbourne can hope for is to sell it on another sports group, soccer or GAA.
I know you love your club & you have this little dream of getting millions for Tolka & moving to a brand new stadium, but its not going to happen. Shelboure need to start making a profit , before any bank will lend them money for a new stadium. I'm not the enemy & i'm not against shelboure, i'm just trying to point out the problems involved.

**thejollyrodger** · 31/03/2005, 10:00 PM

there is a new �100 anti flooding system being built in Dublin or is already built. It was in the indo. There wont be any more flooding in that part of Dublin anymore

The government is committed to developing sport. It will facilitate whatever club as best it can. there is already houses all around Tolka so its not going to me a massive problem.

I can see the theatre of dreams opening in Donebate in the next 3-4 seasons

**Slash/ED** · 31/03/2005, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Ringo

You're being incredibley niave and a bit stupid, too use your quote to think you'll get a bag of money and be alowed to walk away. Not every rate payer in Dublin or householder is a Shelbourne fan. The lease has a value , no one suggesting its not worth something, i just don't think its going to work for Shelbourne. The basis for all the talk about money is based on some notion that it can be re-zoned & a load of apartments can be built on it. Don't think the locals would like to see it re-zoned & by ensuring the new apartments don't flood , it would cause another flood somewhere else ( the water has to go somewhere). Every person who lives along the Tolka would not like to see their home put under more risk of flooding. Having a lease also ties Shelbourne to Tolka unless they can sell it on. A lease works both ways.
The best Shelbourne can hope for is to sell it on another sports group, soccer or GAA.
I know you love your club & you have this little dream of getting millions for Tolka & moving to a brand new stadium, but its not going to happen. Shelboure need to start making a profit , before any bank will lend them money for a new stadium. I'm not the enemy & i'm not against shelboure, i'm just trying to point out the problems involved.

I'm not dreaming of the brand new stadium, quite the opposite, I'm just telling you that the reality is it looks like the land will be rezoned for residental use and Shelbourne are going to sell it and build the new stadium on the money made, ala Finn Harps. If we can't sell the stadium, we have no other money to fund the new one, so the move isn't possible. That's the reality, shels will make a packet off of the ground sale. If that wasn't true, there would be no move, simple really.

**Buller** · 31/03/2005, 10:34 PM

Funny, i made all this banter with one post.. i love this site! and the league..

I (and many others) have learnt loads now about shels move... thanks guys!!!!

**A face** · 31/03/2005, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Buller

I (and many others) have learnt loads now about shels move... thanks guys

No worries Buller .... you're more than welcome !!

**Ringo** · 01/04/2005, 11:35 AM

[QUOTE=thejollyrodger]there is a new �100 anti flooding system being built in Dublin or is already built. It was in the indo. There wont be any more flooding in that part of Dublin anymore

QUOTE]

�100 won't go far

. If was in the indo it must be true

The problem is the building in meath, thats causing the Tolka to flood.

[QUOTE=thejollyrodger]
The government is committed to developing sport. It will facilitate whatever club as best it can.
QUOTE]

april 1st!!!!

**thejollyrodger** · 01/04/2005, 11:46 AM

here take a lesson in how to use the[ quote]quote message without space[ /quote]

w

Im not pulling your leg about the �100 million anti flooding measures either

**Ringo** · 01/04/2005, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

I'm not dreaming of the brand new stadium, quite the opposite, I'm just telling you that the reality is it looks like the land will be rezoned for residental use and Shelbourne are going to sell it and build the new stadium on the money made, ala Finn Harps. If we can't sell the stadium, we have no other money to fund the new one, so the move isn't possible. That's the reality, shels will make a packet off of the ground sale. If that wasn't true, there would be no move, simple really.

The land has not been rezoned under Dublin City Development Plan 2005-2011]

Dublin City Council made the Dublin City Development Plan 2005-2011 on 14th February 2005 at a Special Meeting of the City Council. The Plan comes into effect on 14th March 2005

You'll will have to wait till 2011, to see can it be re-zoned

**Buile Shuibhne** · 01/04/2005, 12:35 PM

Tolka Park can be rezoned under a Variation to the current Development Plan,

Variations are made on regular basis throughout every year.

I posted the Dublin City Managers report on this on ShelsWeb a couple of months ago:

http://www.shelbournefcchat.100megs1...ariation#16064

**Student Mullet** · 01/04/2005, 1:49 PM

I'm no planning expert but from what I understand, Ringo is wrong. Dublin is short of housing at the moment and the city council will happily buy Shels out to get the land now instead of in 60 years time.

**higgins** · 03/04/2005, 2:45 PM

There are blocks of apartments being built all along Richmond Road at the moment so that wont be any problem. I cant see anyone objecting to more. Its only an issue of turning the sproting lease into a sale for residential use.

As for adding to concerns over flooding in the area Id think its a better deal for people already living there. Shels dont have the money to construct any type of anti flooding barriers!! If they get the go ahead for apartments then Im sure they will look at the flooding issues and construct something before building. It will surely be safer if Shels were to move. They have already worked on areas of the Tolka since the last flooding too.

**A face** · 03/04/2005, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Im not pulling your leg about the �100 million anti flooding measures either

There was something on NationWide recently about it, cant remember specifics about it though.

**thejollyrodger** · 03/04/2005, 3:51 PM

It should bump up the land value near tolka no doubt

What is the exact low down on the new stadium anyway, there is absolutely no offical news. Is there any kind of offical time line ?

**Ringo** · 03/04/2005, 4:05 PM

Originally Posted by Student Mullet

I'm no planning expert but from what I understand, Ringo is wrong. Dublin is short of housing at the moment and the city council will happily buy Shels out to get the land now instead of in 60 years time.

Dublin is short of housing , because the developers that have the land are hoarding it & keeping the price of houses high.I'll agree, you are no expert in planning if you think its that simple. shels are just the latest lessee in Tolka, they havn't been there since it was built. Again the main problem is Shels being a private company rather than a Club. The city council have more than enough land to build houses if they wanted. Look at Ballymun. If Shels were a sports club or youth club( ie Home Farm) it would be easier. As with any state agency or publiv body, it must account for every penny it spends.If it doesn't have enough money to exercise its CPO on the Carlton Cinema on O'Connell Street, its unlikly to be able to find money for something like Tolka.

**skitz3** · 03/04/2005, 5:35 PM

Look ringo,with or without your permission the move is still on the cards.our club chairman has already told you as much as he as well as we the fans know,if you can't take his word let the rest of know and we can stop wasting our time arguing with you because it's then obvious that your not going to accept any else's opinion.

**A face** · 03/04/2005, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by skitz3

Look ringo,with or without your permission the move is still on the cards.our club chairman has already told you as much as he as well as we the fans know,if you can't take his word let the rest of know and we can stop wasting our time arguing with you because it's then obvious that your not going to accept any else's opinion.

Skitz3 ... in fairness, there is no harm in teasing out what is actually happening. Fair enough your chairman has informed you as such but he could be wrong too. There is nothing wrong in discussing it and trying to figure out the pitfalls ..... its not like if they were any, that you could hide from them .... they'd be all too real when you actually do go to move.

The post initially was a concern if the move was actually a wise one, if it were even worth doing at all. Take it easy man !!

**skitz3** · 03/04/2005, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by A face

Skitz3 ... in fairness, there is no harm in teasing out what is actually happening. Fair enough your chairman has informed you as such but he could be wrong too. There is nothing wrong in discussing it and trying to figure out the pitfalls ..... its not like if they were any, that you could hide from them .... they'd be all too real when you actually do go to move.

The post initially was a concern if the move was actually a wise one, if it were even worth doing at all. Take it easy man !!

I did get a bit worked up and for that i apologise A Face. it just seemed he was willing it to fail before it even got off the ground but he was not listening to anything anyone else had to say on the matter including Shels chairman who should have more knowledge on the subject than any of us.

btw in regards to it being a wise move i personally don't think it is but the club seem set on it and theirs little i can do about it.

**A face** · 03/04/2005, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by skitz3

btw in regards to it being a wise move i personally don't think it is but the club seem set on it and theirs little i can do about it.

I am with you on that one .... to be totally honest with ya, the only reason you need to move from that ground is if you are turning people away every week.

There is a good bar there and room for another i'd imagine. There is more than enough capacity there and there seems like there is more room to build stands all the way around. It is in a good location (by that i mean it is central) and fairly easy to get to.

It seems like madness to move ground on the strength of European crowds, that is not good enough.

There doesn't seem to be alot of effort being put into attracting schools and students and there doesn't seem to be enough effort in advertising to locals (effective advertising, if current methods are not working, try others)

I can see the plus sides for moving ..... but is there any research done (serious research, not guess work) on the area that you are moving to as regards attracting crowds.

Anyway .... wait and see i suppose.

**Ringo** · 04/04/2005, 7:04 AM

Originally Posted by skitz3

Look ringo,with or without your permission the move is still on the cards.our club chairman has already told you as much as he as well as we the fans know,if you can't take his word let the rest of know and we can stop wasting our time arguing with you because it's then obvious that your not going to accept any else's opinion.

What Shels do is their business, i was just pointing out the problems with the plan as i saw it. If no Eircom League club is making a profit how can any club buy land & build a new stadium. Tolka is old & a new Stadium would be cheaper to run. But as A Face points out your not filling Tolka at the moment, maybe it would be wiser to Try & make some money where you are & move in a few years when the following has built back up.