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Thread: LoI in Europe 2018

  1. #1161
    Seasoned Pro El-Pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Its all huff and puff with cork and not much else. They're miles off most irish sides in europe. They can't keeping being excused for switch offs.
    Which sides are we miles off? Dundalk, Rovers and Derry all got knocked out this year. Dundalk did beat Levadia but we didn't get any credit for beating them last year. What about last season? We were the only Irish team to progress through a round last year. WHich Irish sides are we miles off? Or is this another bull**** "style" argument?

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    Seasoned Pro White Horse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Pietro View Post
    No one asks for more from the other teams, but Cualfields achievements are constantly question and other clubs get a pass.
    I'm not sure about that. Questions are being asked about all the LOI teams in Europe this year.

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    Seasoned Pro Ezeikial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Pietro View Post

    I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.
    I'm just trying to figure out if you're on the wind up or just totally deluded.

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  5. #1164
    Seasoned Pro El-Pietro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezeikial View Post
    I'm just trying to figure out if you're on the wind up or just totally deluded.
    You were very good in 2016. Greatest ever Irish European performance. Since then you've beaten Levadia Tallinn. I don't see any Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.

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  7. #1165
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Horse View Post
    I'm not sure about that. Questions are being asked about all the LOI teams in Europe this year.
    People are looking for Caulfield to get the sack based on losing to teams with playing budgets 10 to 15 times higher than ourselves.

    Tonight was sh1te - but lets get real here.
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    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezeikial View Post
    I'm just trying to figure out if you're on the wind up or just totally deluded.
    As deluded as Total football as total football gets.
    If a dog weighs under 50 lbs it's a cat, and cats are useless.

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    Seasoned Pro Ezeikial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Pietro View Post
    You were very good in 2016. Greatest ever Irish European performance. Since then you've beaten Levadia Tallinn. I don't see any Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.
    So you're not on a wind up?

    I'll have a rosary said for you

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    Cork are the current league and cup holders and are currently top of the league . If Caulfield should be sacked then Kenny has to go too. Can't dine out on 2016 for ever. Very poor in Europe this year....Has to go .........cobh ahem

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  13. #1169
    First Team TonyD's Avatar
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    Both Cork and Dundalk were very poor last week and tonight to be fair. But they are way ahead of everyone else in the league at the moment. Talk of sacking managers for not making a European breakthrough is a bit out there, isn't it ? no real reason to think that other managers could do better. (I realise that was a joke about Kenny going btw, but I have heard it hinted at elsewhere after last week.)

    The annoying thing is that both teams conceded very poor goals, but that's an age old problem for Irish teams. Dundalk do seem to have regressed from their great run in 2016.
    Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.

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    Youth Team CorribsideSteve's Avatar
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    Majo clearouts are needed at both clubs, key players at both clubs that are not at the level needed for next stage in Europe. I doubt if FORAS would even have the money to pay off one manager while trying to financially attract another one, one that's from outside the League. That 4-0 thrashing for Dundalk had to be Kenny's lowest moment as manager. A sheer cliff fall in terms of the emotions of 2 years previous. Will be interesting to see how he does in next year's Euro ties.

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    Seasoned Pro Ezeikial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid View Post
    As deluded as Total football as total football gets.
    This totaalvoetbal malarky is much embraced by some Cork fans - its a bit of whataboutery that tends to try to deflect away from the negative basic style of Cork play. That style has worked to an extent in domestic football, but certainly not in Europe.

    Maybe you are in agreement with El Pietro - "I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe"

    If so I'll include you in that rosary for the deluded
    Last edited by Ezeikial; 10/08/2018 at 6:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CorribsideSteve View Post
    Majo clearouts are needed at both clubs, key players at both clubs that are not at the level needed for next stage in Europe. I doubt if FORAS would even have the money to pay off one manager while trying to financially attract another one, one that's from outside the League. That 4-0 thrashing for Dundalk had to be Kenny's lowest moment as manager. A sheer cliff fall in terms of the emotions of 2 years previous. Will be interesting to see how he does in next year's Euro ties.
    This is the stark reality and must be clear from this years european performances - neither Cork nor Dundalk are currently good enough for the next stage.

    Recognising that and then setting about changing it is the key task.

    I suspect Kenny and the Dundalk board have both the ability to see that and the resources to try to change it.

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  18. #1173
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Pietro View Post
    Since then you've beaten Levadia Tallinn. I don't see any Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.
    Really?

    Cork's record this year - played 3, lost 3, scored 0, conceded 6.

    Derry, Rovers and Dundalk all won away from home this year - surely that's outperforming ye?

    Rovers took a Swedish side to extra time when unseeded. Dinamo Minsk's three home European results this season have been Minsk 1-2 Derry, Minsk 4-1 Dunajska Streda, Minsk 4-0 Zenit St Petersburg. Dundalk obviously won home and away against Levadia Tallinn, albeit while seeded.

    I'd argue all three of those results are better than losing each game, without scoring, against teams who have lost to Valur, Dudelange and Trnava in Europe this season.

    I don't think it's true either than the other European teams are getting a free pass in Europe this year. Rovers and Derry did about as well as could be expected. Dundalk came in for a fair amount of criticism for the hammering by Larnaka, but Kenny has at least has credits from 2016.

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  20. #1174
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    And all three got knocked out so it doesn't matter how plucky they were in defeat.

  21. #1175
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezeikial View Post
    This totaalvoetbal malarky is much embraced by some Cork fans - its a bit of whataboutery that tends to try to deflect away from the negative basic style of Cork play. That style has worked to an extent in domestic football,
    They won the double FFS! They have been top two consistently over a period of years, something the club has never done previously, certainly in anything resembling a sustainable manner. If that is "working to an extent" I don't think you're in much of a position to accuse anyone of being on a wind up or being deluded.

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  23. #1176
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    Bad year for the league given what we have all achieved in recent times (Unless Cork perform a miracle in Norway). Bad draws, yes. Bad performances, yes. Embarrassing exits, no. Every LoI team went out to technically superior opposition that would have expected to beat us. Dundalk comfortably won a tie they should have won and were comfortably beaten by superior opposition, Shams & Derry both lost with good away performances and Cork look set to lose 2 difficult ties to nil.

    Talk of any manager getting sacked after going out of Europe to superior sides is nonsense. For the most part it's because of those manager that these sides are in Europe, we all know where Dundalk would be without Kenny and as much as I dislike Caulfield I'm not sure there's another LoI manager (bar SK) that would have had the same domestic success with Cork (A side not previously renowned for it's consistency).

    The expectations of the league have been raised in terms of European performances, which is a good thing, but we must not forget how much luck is involved with European football, Dundalk snuck through on away goals against FH in the CL 1st round in 2016, without a slice of luck we'd have been out at the first hurdle.

    The league is on a steady upturn (longer contracts, outside investment, marquee signings), which at least seems to be being done on a more realistic basis than the last time when it all went tits up, but it isn't going to mean instant success in Europe every single year but we are getting there.

    While it's almost all over for this year at least this time we have a real title race on our hands, and I look forward to watching it's exciting conclusion!
    Mon the Town!

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  25. #1177
    Seasoned Pro oriel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by El-Pietro View Post


    I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe.

    I read this last night and I was amazed at the comment.

    Its an incredible statement to make given Cork have yet to even score in Europe let alone get a result. Pineapple S has provided various examples of better performances, and before I`m accused of wearing my DFC hat, I’d rate Derry and Rovers away results over ours, they might not have gone through, but they were better teams than Tallinn.

    JC might have won the double and another FAI Cup, but his coaching style does not seem to be suited to Europe, and this has been clearly shown in the 3 games so far this year. Poor deployments and worse selections are examples, this was shown up in the first goal away to Legia, McCormack sitting far too deep, and the guy who crossed was almost walking at one stage, not a single Cork player near him. Cummins was ineffective last night, seems to work only on the wings, but that was Sheppard's area, and on selections, why on earth would he not start the exciting talent that is Sadlier? Morrissey too, but I think he was coming back from injury. Morrissey at least started to pass it properly in the middle when he came on. Incidentally I would consider both first subs for Cork as their best players, and in the case for Sadlier, its not like McEleney with Dundalk where he is not yet fully fit, so no reason he couldn’t have started. Cork did have a go for the first 20, and I will admit they were unlucky to be 1-0 down, but again back to the attacking options, a better coach would have set them up offensively to have had a better chance to score, as opposed to the rush and long ball play.

    To balance my view on last night, other posters including Ezeikial have mentioned (and quite rightly) Dundalk’s dreadful display away to Larnaca, I think I said at the time it was bordering on the disgrace, so bad was the first half performance and the goals conceded. It was a once off though, and one game where we lost by more than one goal in 4-5 years in Europe, however I am not for one minute ignoring our own limitations. My own view is, I think we need the MF area completely freshened up with at least two quality new players to come in for next season in that area, if we are to have a better chance in Europe. We also need better cover for Gannon at right full, Hoare can cover domestically, but he was out of his depth away to Larnaca.

    Overall a disappointing season for Irish clubs, Cork are not out yet, but I would say its looking grim.
    #Dundalk FC 3-in-a-row 2014-2016

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  27. #1178
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezeikial View Post
    This totaalvoetbal malarky is much embraced by some Cork fans - its a bit of whataboutery that tends to try to deflect away from the negative basic style of Cork play. That style has worked to an extent in domestic football, but certainly not in Europe.

    Maybe you are in agreement with El Pietro - "I don't see any other Irish teams outperforming us in Europe"

    If so I'll include you in that rosary for the deluded
    We haven't been negative in Europe this year. We don't have players with the technical ability that Dundalk have for sure - maybe that is down to the manager but this negative nonsense is just that - nonsense. I wouldn't go as far as El-P with the performance thing - but we did as well against the teams we faced as anyone else would have.


    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    I'd argue all three of those results are better than losing each game, without scoring, against teams who have lost to Valur, Dudelange and Trnava in Europe this season.
    Not sure the point you make here. Valur are still in with a good shout of making rd4 - they look a decent side, since when do Irish clubs look down on a team like this. Dudelange won but that was a one off result, 10 men etc and Legia will still get through that tie. Trnava are an excellent side - have pace and quality that a LOI team can only dream of.


    Dundalk and ourselves have been shown up over the past few weeks but I wouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Long term progression is still evident. To win any of these ties you have to punch above your weight - and its hard to consistently do that. Dundalk have had more success than us in recent years in doing it - but with the likes of Towell, Horgan & Maguire et al now moving on there was always going to be a re-adjustment. It is what it is.
    Last edited by Real ale Madrid; 10/08/2018 at 10:06 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by El-Pietro View Post
    Which sides are we miles off? Dundalk, Rovers and Derry all got knocked out this year. Dundalk did beat Levadia but we didn't get any credit for beating them last year. What about last season? We were the only Irish team to progress through a round last year. WHich Irish sides are we miles off? Or is this another bull**** "style" argument?
    Stu got in ahead of me with the other LOI teams this season. Its been what 5/6 games in Europe or will be without having scored. You can easily argue they've gotten worse over the last 2 years in Europe. Making same silly mistakes as 10 or 15 years ago of Loi teams. And never look like scoring either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul_oshea View Post
    Stu got in ahead of me with the other LOI teams this season. Its been what 5/6 games in Europe or will be without having scored. You can easily argue they've gotten worse over the last 2 years in Europe. Making same silly mistakes as 10 or 15 years ago of Loi teams. And never look like scoring either.
    And go back two games and you see we scored six goals. We have struggled to score against teams who are better than us. We are finding the limit of our ability. That is perfectly normal. Certainly not reason to call for the managers head.

    We beat teams worse than us, we struggle against teams better than us. Who doesn't?

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