LoI in Europe 2018

**micls** · 03/08/2018, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by oriel

This is mental stuff EL P, you must be thinking about the comparison between Dundalk and Cork in Europe a lot if you are coming out with percentage stats !

Do you keep a spreadsheet on things like this?

He does, he loves spreadsheets. And it's not a dundalk thing, he's a bit obsessed with stats in general. It's a problem really.

**pineapple stu** · 03/08/2018, 12:21 PM

In fairness, doing simple maths is hardly "mental stuff"

(Technically, Dundalk could be said to have beaten Maccabi Tel-Aviv on away goals btw)

**pineapple stu** · 03/08/2018, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by sullanefc

What is really arrogant is when you consider your club purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.

As a neutral in all this, are you really accusing a Derry fan of thinking they're purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.?

Seriously?

WTF like?

(Even if you thought you were replying to a Dundalk fan, it's still daft hyperbole.)

**El-Pietro** · 03/08/2018, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by oriel

This is mental stuff EL P, you must be thinking about the comparison between Dundalk and Cork in Europe a lot if you are coming out with percentage stats !

Do you keep a spreadsheet on things like this?

Spreadsheets are great. I love spreadhsheets If you don't keep spreadhsheets then you are missing out. With that said I don't keep any spreadsheets on Dundalk, aside from one google doc for league predictions with a small group of friends.

Win percentage is a very simple thing to calculate, I saw that the numbers looked similar (4/14 and 7/24) and worked it out really quickly.

**El-Pietro** · 03/08/2018, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

As a neutral in all this, are you really accusing a Derry fan of thinking they're purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.?

Seriously?

WTF like?

(Even if you thought you were replying to a Dundalk fan, it's still daft hyperbole.)

I think hes referring to a post by a Dundalk fan on OW which has been floating around for the last few days. The Dundalk fan told an AEK Larnaca fan that Dundalk were Man City to Cork Citys Stoke. Probably taking the **** but you open yourself up to criticism with a post like that.

**pineapple stu** · 03/08/2018, 12:30 PM

Hm. Can see how it could be read as that, although it's not the obvious first impression you'd take.

But still, extrapolating from one internet post to attack another fan of that club is silly.

**NeverFeltBetter** · 03/08/2018, 1:03 PM

I remember when Limerick were described as the "Man City of the LOI". Good times.

**micls** · 03/08/2018, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Hm. Can see how it could be read as that, although it's not the obvious first impression you'd take.

But still, extrapolating from one internet post to attack another fan of that club is silly.

That post was particularly ridiculous but he's far from the only dundalk fan that's bought into the total football stuff. No dundalk fan pulled him up on it. And another fan said a dundalk ajax game would be the 'totalest of total football'.

I'm sure it's not representative of all their fans, but it's not surprising people are taking the ****.

**paul_oshea** · 03/08/2018, 2:03 PM

Was doing rail and sail so havent had a chance to reply. You meet some quirky individuals on that, guessing many LOI supporters.

Interesting points about O'Donnell, he stood out in that 2016 run as someone who could get on the ball, hold on to it, and pick the simple pass. But Shields did that just as well in the home game against Larnaca. So is it a bit of revisionism? Or a bit of both.

Reading the independent article, a couple of words stood out, one such was tardy. The players looked leggy early on, no one was tracking back, i doubt the dimensions had that much to do with it, so larnaca were finding loads of space, but they were also finding that space in the first game , but this time they did something about it. I also remember seeing on the first water-break shileds putting a towel around his head like he was fcuked already. i know by that stage they were already 1 down but still it all seemed to have affected them very quickly. Either way still no excuse for getting hammered 4 0.

One thing mentioned with cork and dundalk and even rovers the last few games was the chances that were not taken, McMillan would have taken a couple of those chances and I think that's another key difference here between the two sides(2016/2018 not cork v ddalk) - hobans not at that level. There was an awful lot of inaction and two-minds thinking from Dundalk over the two legs.

Gannon couldnt have been a full 90 mins match fit though if hed been out, its easy to say kenny should have played him from the start but if he had and wasnt match fit, the opposite would be said. he definitely improved them 2nd half. Cleary isn't good enough, positional sense is poor and doesnt have the speed. Missing Vemmelund? I think definitely.

Interesting that people think kenny is now in trouble given the owners and players brought in. How much of that money used would not have actually come from 2016? How much have the americans invested ?

**Philosophizer** · 03/08/2018, 2:12 PM

It's all ifs and buts at this stage, BUT can anyone who was in the stadium in Larnaca comment about the warm up??

Damien Lynch was co-commentating on Eir and mentioned that the Dundalk lads were tearing around the place in the warm up, whereas the Larnaca lads rarely broke out of a trot. Surely Dundalk didn't overdo the warm-up in the heat and sunshine...

I'm hoping that would be a far too elementary mistake to be made at this level...

**paul_oshea** · 03/08/2018, 2:14 PM

Another thing about the cypriots, that stadium wasnt that big, the supporters there weren't that many. Whats larnacas budget like? Cillian sheridan must be better than i thought

Lots of russians in cyprus, lots of russian "money" floating around. I wonder if there is an involvement with some clubs, because given their stadium and the general population they shouldnt be doing any better than say galway/limerick

**paul_oshea** · 03/08/2018, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

It's all ifs and buts at this stage, BUT can anyone who was in the stadium in Larnaca comment about the warm up??

Damien Lynch was co-commentating on Eir and mentioned that the Dundalk lads were tearing around the place in the warm up, whereas the Larnaca lads rarely broke out of a trot. Surely Dundalk didn't overdo the warm-up in the heat and sunshine...

I'm hoping that would be a far too elementary mistake to be made at this level...

In general though the larnaca lads never did that, they were very relaxed without possession and didn't do much pressing. But ya i get what youre saying good question, it cant be that simple though.

**Philosophizer** · 03/08/2018, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Another thing about the cypriots, that stadium wasnt that big, the supporters there weren't that many. Whats larnacas budget like? Cillian sheridan must be better than i thought

Lots of russians in cyprus, lots of russian "money" floating around. I wonder if there is an involvement with some clubs, because given their stadium and the general population they shouldnt be doing any better than say galway/limerick

i think it's common knowledge they have a financial backer who's paying all these lads coming from la liga.

**sbgawa** · 03/08/2018, 2:30 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Was doing rail and sail so havent had a chance to reply. You meet some quirky individuals on that, guessing many LOI supporters.

Interesting points about O'Donnell, he stood out in that 2016 run as someone who could get on the ball, hold on to it, and pick the simple pass. But Shields did that just as well in the home game against Larnaca. So is it a bit of revisionism? Or a bit of both.

Reading the independent article, a couple of words stood out, one such was tardy. The players looked leggy early on, no one was tracking back, i doubt the dimensions had that much to do with it, so larnaca were finding loads of space, but they were also finding that space in the first game , but this time they did something about it. I also remember seeing on the first water-break shileds putting a towel around his head like he was fcuked already. i know by that stage they were already 1 down but still it all seemed to have affected them very quickly. Either way still no excuse for getting hammered 4 0.

One thing mentioned with cork and dundalk and even rovers the last few games was the chances that were not taken, McMillan would have taken a couple of those chances and I think that's another key difference here between the two sides(2016/2018 not cork v ddalk) - hobans not at that level. There was an awful lot of inaction and two-minds thinking from Dundalk over the two legs.

Gannon couldnt have been a full 90 mins match fit though if hed been out, its easy to say kenny should have played him from the start but if he had and wasnt match fit, the opposite would be said. he definitely improved them 2nd half. Cleary isn't good enough, positional sense is poor and doesnt have the speed. Missing Vemmelund? I think definitely.

Interesting that people think kenny is now in trouble given the owners and players brought in. How much of that money used would not have actually come from 2016? How much have the americans invested ?

How much have the Americans invested is a good question.
I'd guess (and that's all it is) that they bought the club for zippo but the old owners took out all the cash (and good luck to them) , so their investment is this years playing budget + CEO + admin (assuming they got the club for zero).
With €500,000 from Europe this year they would be looking at losses for the year but not cathestrophic losses, probably less than a million.
Question is how much will they be prepared to invest in next years budget and whether this defeat makes them question will European progress be as cheap as they thought.
Difference being if they had two rounds in next years champions league that would be million plus of euro money and would be a breakeven for the year.
The off season will be interesting in terms of investment by Peak 6 assuming Dundalk win the league.

**sullanefc** · 03/08/2018, 2:33 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

As a neutral in all this, are you really accusing a Derry fan of thinking they're purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.?

Keep up Pineapple. I've translated my post below to the queens english for you. I hope this helps to clarify that I was not referring to the other "City".

Originally Posted by sullanefc

What is really arrogant is when one considers ones club purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.

**pineapple stu** · 03/08/2018, 2:42 PM

Well, no - that also doesn't refer to Dundalk.

However, we have had it translated from Corkish, and I guess ye lot are doing well enough with the pigeon English that passes down there.

So the point is taken.

But - what about the nonsensically excessive hyperbole?

**oriel** · 03/08/2018, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by sbgawa

How much have the Americans invested is a good question.
I'd guess (and that's all it is) that they bought the club for zippo but the old owners took out all the cash (and good luck to them) , so their investment is this years playing budget + CEO + admin (assuming they got the club for zero).
With €500,000 from Europe this year they would be looking at losses for the year but not cathestrophic losses, probably less than a million.
Question is how much will they be prepared to invest in next years budget and whether this defeat makes them question will European progress be as cheap as they thought.
Difference being if they had two rounds in next years champions league that would be million plus of euro money and would be a breakeven for the year.
The off season will be interesting in terms of investment by Peak 6 assuming Dundalk win the league.

It was obviously never made public what the Peak 6 led consortium bought DFC for, but the two previous owners did get a payout which they 100% deserved, I think part of the sale was that a good chunk remained as cash at bank. One thing for certain is they are responsible for all bills, so the 0.5M would be a modest incoming in their eyes, but maybe not so bad in their first year and for the lesser of the two Euro competitions. I think they have their eye on CL monies from next year.

Just the small matter of winning the league, favourable draws after the second round and progression a few rounds for all of that, and probably better players too !

**paul_oshea** · 03/08/2018, 2:57 PM

Originally Posted by Philosophizer

i think it's common knowledge they have a financial backer who's paying all these lads coming from la liga.

It might be but having a wealthy backer doesn't get around the FFP right? Theyd still have to show steady income unless of course its masked as sponsorship.

**paul_oshea** · 03/08/2018, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by oriel

It was obviously never made public what the Peak 6 led consortium bought DFC for, but the two previous owners did get a payout which they 100% deserved, I think part of the sale was that a good chunk remained as cash at bank. One thing for certain is they are responsible for all bills, so the 0.5M would be a modest incoming in their eyes, but maybe not so bad in their first year and for the lesser of the two Euro competitions. I think they have their eye on CL monies from next year.

Just the small matter of winning the league, favourable draws after the second round and progression a few rounds for all of that, and probably better players too !

And when put like that it sounds like a Shels catastrophe waiting to happen, except with less considerate foreign owners.

**sullanefc** · 03/08/2018, 2:59 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But - what about the nonsensically excessive hyperbole?

They are not my words. Ask the dundalk fans who made these claims.

I quoted them to point out an arrogance among their support. They are the ones with the hyperbole. The fawning of them on here and in the media probably exacerbates it but it's there.