I don't particularly care for the "but he started it" line. It doesn't make a difference to me whether it's Cork fans telling Dundalk they're better, or Dundalk fans telling Cork they're better, the whole episode is getting tiresome. Cork and Dundalk are both miles ahead of everyone else in the league, and are pretty much equal to each other currently.Originally Posted by sullanefc
Every thread on this site lately end up descending into a b!tching fest between Cork and Dundalk fans. I'm all for the banter or whatever you have, but some of the rubbish is just pathetic.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Wasnt that one of the pointers we got from the World Cup, the lesser teams got chances that they failed to put away. I dont think its just a LOI thing tbf
Seen the first half, think Larnica might have surprised them a bit with the fast temp from the get go. 2 down after 20, game over.
Anyway at least we have Cork in the next round.
Burnley and Aberdeen gone into extra time after two 1-1 draws, which is a bit surprising. Burnley have just gone ahead now.
A draw for Crues against Ljubljana, though they were hammered in the first leg. Means the North drop into the bottom four leagues in Europe now and will start the Champions League one round earlier next season. They'll love that, given how much Europe seems to impede them as it stands anyway.
In terms of Bohs' chances for the Youth League, they need three of Benfica, Dynamo Kyiv, PSV Eindhoven, Dinamo Zagreb, Red Star Belgrade and Astana to reach the group stages. So far, they've lost Sheriff Tiraspol, HJK Helsinki, Midtylland and FC Basel, and at least one more will be lost in the third QR as Zagreb play Astana. Basel and Midtylland are big losses; Sheriff and HJK were never going to qualify.
In round 3, it's Benfica v Fenerbahce, Kyiv v Slavia Prague, Red Star v Trnava, and PSV then start in the final qualifying round.
Looking a bit dodgy for Bohs there I think.
As far as I know that also means NI gets one less team next year in the EL. Their champions will be in the preliminary tournament too. Two games in three days, one legged semi final and final.
Dundalk were poor this afternoon, but credit to Larnaca. They moved the ball and players very quickly, with lots of fluid one-touch passes and movements. Their second goal in particular was was pretty special (the long ball in to the forward who got between 2 defenders to score with it).
I was surprised at how good Larnaca looked tbh, and I don't think the weather was anything more than a minor factor. It's embarrassing for Ireland that a country with a population smaller than Dublin is kicking our ass in Europe.
Was at the Crusaders Ljubljana match, and the Crues were good value for their draw.
Fairly hypocritical to accuse one set of fans arrogance, and in the same sentence use 'City' to refer exclusively to your own club. Strange to then follow it up by having a go at Harps fans because they don't understand rivalry, apparently.
I think we'd all agree that this would be a better place if people were just a bit more civil with each other.
Anyways, back to the football. Didn't watch it live, so going from the highlights here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rjqKgG6q88I
Some pretty out of character play from Dundalk. With the experience in that side, it's unexpected to see them 'do a City' (the Derry one, that is) and concede four goals with such dire defending. Kenny must be fuming.
Not sure what to make of the goals, looked like Dundalk just switched off. Most unlike them.
Disappointing, but it's fair to say that Larnaca are a better side than anyone in this country. As noted above, the Cypriot league seems to be healthy enough. A small island with a small population on the fringe of Europe, divided between north and south, punching well above its weight. Bound to be a lesson or two for us in there.
Dan Cleary looked awful in those highlights. ''Doubt me now'' I'd say a lot of people do.
What nonsense are you on about? Arrogant because I (and every other person in Cork) call the club City? It is this way to distinguish between sporting codes.
What is really arrogant is when you consider your club purveyors of total football and the man city of LOI.
Some hard-hitting straight-talking post match stuff from Stephen Kenny who chooses not to sugar coat the abject performance.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-37180262.htmlKenny fury as Dundalk horror show ends Euro ambitions
AEK Larnaca 4 Dundalk 0 (AEK win 4-0 on aggregate)
Daniel McDonnell in Larnaca
August 3 2018 2:30 AM
It was almost an hour after the full-time whistle when Stephen Kenny emerged from the visiting dressing room located in a tunnel below the AEK Arena.
Europe has been the stage for some of his greatest days as Dundalk manager but this evening had descended into one of the worst.
This was his heaviest defeat since taking charge, with a four-goal thrashing a complete break from character for a side that had won 16 out of their 17 games since their defeat to Waterford in May.
When Dundalk encountered superior forces during their magical 2016 European journey, they didn't lose any game by more than a goal.
In that context, this was a drubbing. AEK Larnaca were the better side but they didn't have to work exceptionally hard to score three before half-time and seize control.
The 32-degree heat which made water breaks mandatory was a factor - but it doesn't function as an acceptable excuse for the basic errors that gave the Cypriots the initiative.
And Kenny did not cite that as a factor as he pulled no punches in his assessment of a dire display.
The priority this year is regaining the league title - as evidenced by the absence of rotation in Sunday's win over Bohemians - and the champions route offers a kinder passage to European success. But Kenny takes pride in solid European displays and this had clearly dented it.
"This has to hurt," he stressed, "I won't tell the players to park this. It has to hurt.
"We're disappointed tonight and the players understand it's not acceptable. We're capable of a lot better than that."
A tie that was described as 'evenly poised' was done and dusted by half-time.
Larnaca coach Andoni Iraola had said on the eve of the match that he had spotted weaknesses in Dundalk during last week's scoreless draw and he introduced crafty Spanish winger Tete in order to exploit them.
The 33-year-old hugged the left touchline, leaving right-back Sean Hoare with a dilemma, and the genesis of AEK's success was how they found Dundalk out in that area of the pitch. Dylan Connolly's tracking back was also an issue.
Larnaca's ball retention was superior and they managed to lure Dundalk out of position before executing a killer pass that found space in behind.
There were warning signs in the early minutes, with Daniel Cleary booked as Dundalk were pulled out of shape. The disappointing aspect about the breakthrough goal was that it actually came after a promising Dundalk counter that was cleared.
Before they could regroup, Macedonian international Ivan Trickovski made a run that Hoare was slow to track and he was left playing catch-up as he angled a right footer beyond Rogers.
Larnaca added another before the first water break. This was even more straightforward, with a long pass from Joan Truyols finding Tete who caught Hoare out of position and found himself with just Rogers to beat. A cheeky chip did the rest.
"Sean just completely switched off," said Kenny, "He didn't even see the player. I can't explain it really.
"The defending for the goals was just nowhere near good enough. In that period where they've scored two, our heads dropped completely.
Dundalk did try and muster a fightback and had a strong appeal for a penalty rejected when Jamie McGrath was tripped into the box. That might have given them some momentum, but Larnaca escaped and found another ahead of the interval.
It was more of the same as the play shifted towards Tete with Hoare in the firing line and Connolly tardy when it came to getting back to offer protection. His cross found Trickovski who forced the ball past Gary Rogers after the keeper blocked his initial header.
Game over.
Kenny took action at the break, and unsurprisingly his changes centred on the right side. Hoare moved into centre half, replacing Cleary who was hooked along with Connolly. Sean Gannon came in at right-full and Patrick McEleney was brought into midfield with Jamie McGrath shifted right. From the outset, there was a better balance.
Dangerous
However, Larnaca didn't need to push for another goal, and maintained control of the situation even though Dundalk were more dangerous in general play. After a let-off when Trickovski struck the post, a period of Dundalk pressure followed.
"Sean and Patrick were very influential," said Kenny, who admitted that he was tempted to make changes during the first half and might regret not taking a risk on injury doubt Gannon who showed no ill effects.
An injury to Hoare wasted his third sub, with Dane Massey brought in. He did threaten with a header and there were half chances for Pat Hoban and Michael Duffy too, but Larnaca were unflustered and added a fourth before the end when sub Joan Tomas scored with his first touch.
The detail had become an irrelevance at that juncture.
"We can't blame the heat," said Kenny, "We committed basic errors and we got punished.
"They stopped us playing out too easily. We needed to be braver. We need to have better movement and our general passing wasn't at the level that it needs to be.
"Sometimes you just need to hang in there when a team gets the run on you like that and to see a period out. It's a different game in the second half and they didn't look as good as they did. It was too comfortable for them."
For his players, a quiet and uncomfortable journey home beckoned.
AEK Larnaca - Ramirez, Silva, Truyols, Gonzalez, T Ioannou; Larena (Nacho 70), Hevel; Acoran (Tomas 86), A Giannou, Tete (Konstantinou 80); Trickovski.
Dundalk - Rogers, Hoare (Massey 63), Gartland, Cleary (Gannon 45), Jarvis; Shields, Benson; Connolly (McEleney 45), McGrath, Duffy; Hoban.
Ref - F Jovic (Croatia)
Irish Independent
When all is said and done, it's really about how the players, manager and the club react to this drubbing.
The league title remains the number one short term goal for 2018 - the players should get back into the groove with two successive cup matches against Cobh Ramblers followed by a league match against Bray in the coming 2 weeks.
For the manager and the club owners, the issues may be more far-reaching and longer-term - while it is fine for Stephen Kenny to say that "We're better than we played tonight" he will be acutely aware that the deficiencies in his team and squad will need to be addressed if the club have realistic ambitions to compete at this level.
If your relying on the like of Hoare in Europe, you will get found out.
He's fine for LOI where there is a general lack of talent compared to what he faced last night.
Puts a bit if pressure on Kenny now to win the league, as the yanks aren't here for the beauty of termonfeckin..
Termonfeckin is solid Drogs territory.You must mean Hackballs Cross?
Big test now for Kenny. Dundalk still good enough to win the title and the associated Euro pay out jackpot if he doesn't panic , still far and away the best of a mediocre lot.
It strikes me that the common factor in the LoI 's greatest performances in Europe in the last ten years is Stephen O'Donnell ,and he was badly missed last night.The fact that we haven't seen a centre mid with that calmness, on the ball skill, ability to dictate the pace of the game and tough enough to scare European opposition, since him, says all you need to know on what direction the league has gone...And to think Fenlon let him go in his prime!!
Was thinking exactly this last night. IMO O'Donnell was their most impressive player in the 2016 run. He exudes a level of patient passing and control that I've rarely seen from a LOI player in Europe. In the 1st EL group game (out in Alkmar) he stood out a mile. Funny how he's more suited to the European ties whereas other players who look better domestically struggle in Europe.
Dreadful performance by Dundalk, and I`m not having the heat as an excuse either, that would have been a second half consideration (when bizzarely we actually started to play).
Not a word I like to use especially under Kenny, but the first half was close to disgraceful in terms of defending and overall display. The first goal was a decent finish, but 2 and 3 were avoidable. I think Kenny is also partly to blame here, leaving two of the most experienced defenders on the bench to start with, Gannon should have played right full and Massey should have come in for Jarvis. These two played in all 6 EL group games I think, and it was a poor call leaving them out last night. Hoare is a good defender but in a central position, he can deputise at right back, but only when Gannon is unavailable, I don’t think Jarvis was ready to step up in a game like this, AEK caused lots of problems down both wings.
Biggest defeat ever for Kenny while at Dundalk and in 5 years, I’ve no problems going out, but it was the manner of the defeat and giving in so easy that is so disappointing.
Good point above on O'Donnell, he is definitely suited to europe, the question is will he play again at that level? hopefully he can.
I still think even after this defeat that Dundalk will be seeded in next years CL if they win the league?
Last edited by oriel; 03/08/2018 at 9:40 AM.
#DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).
A long, long journey back from Cyprus last night.
There was a large number of Dundalk fans in the ground but we were left frustrated by a lacklustre performance. Dundalk just didn't show up, they lacked energy and aggression from kick off.
Larnaca were good, and showed themselves to be the superior side over both legs. It is not being beaten by a superior side that bothered the fans so much. They can take being beaten. Anyone who thinks there is shame in being beaten is following the wrong sport. The annoying part is that Dundalk did not do themselves justice. Yes, they tried to play football as they always do, but the defensive side to their game was horrendous.
It is now clear that the 2018 side are miles behind the 2016 side. I knew that was a special side but last night demonstrated how far off that standard the current side are.
The league is crucial now in terms of Europe and the likelihood of progression via the Champions route.
Given the squad he has if Kenny doesn't deliver the league for the yanks I wouldn't expect him to be there by Christmas.
Dundalk have enough about them to make that irrelevant (if Waterford do them a favour tonight it could be all over already).but the route to Euro millions is harder than ever now. Dundalk with their Coefficient will be seeded next year and that should be enough to guarantee them 3rd qualifying round in Europa league at least provided they win the league and gives them a shot at making groups by winning two ties.....easier said than done but it starts with winning the league
Dundalk aren't the Man City of the LOI, because we didn't buy our way to success.
I understand what you're saying, and largely agree, but it looked more light years than miles when talking about the difference in the '16 and '18 teams. A large upscale of quality is needed over the winter. Players like Gartland and Rogers need to be put out to pasture. Is it unfair to single out just those two? Possibly. But they are main men in that side and I was left watching the match through my fingers at the car crash the event turned into, at least in part because of them.
A poster on Orielweb seems to think so.
This is mental stuff EL P, you must be thinking about the comparison between Dundalk and Cork in Europe a lot if you are coming out with percentage stats !
Do you keep a spreadsheet on things like this?
#DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).
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