Yeah I suppose it's a bit off topic for the fans of one of the cup finalists to be talking about their opposition! We're hardly the only ones pointing it out, even Cork fans were! There's a lot of winding up going on as well, we need something to help build this game up!Originally Posted by joey B
I'm finding the Cork as long ball merchants narrative a bit tiresome too. If they were that crude and basic the rest of the league would have figured them out over the past 5 years. There's clearly a bit more to them than that. And Dundalk aren't averse to slinging a big diagonal ball at Hoban from time to time.
Firstly, congrats to Cork, the better team on the night especially first half. Too many Bohs players didn’t show up and we were never really in it. I thought Cork were more comfortable than 2-1 to be honest.
Yes, Cork play a very crude style of football but they are very good at it and it works for them. It’s not Corks job to entertain opposition fans or officials. No need for Cork fans to be so defensive- it ain’t broken !
Stadium, (much maligned) stewards and even AGS were all excellent Monday night and contributed to a good occasion (just pity about the score 😒. Even our hooped ref had a decent night.
What time will the final actually kickoff? Tickets only say 12.00 but that is when doors open, and there is the WFAI final to be played first, right?
Usually about 5 or 5.30?
Last edited by osarusan; 10/10/2018 at 5:12 PM.
Last few years it was 3.30ish.
Thank you seand. Yes we do play a very direct style. Since we lost Maguire we have played it a lot more direct. I actually don't like it (a lot of City fans don't actually) but we can play a bit too. Like you say if all there was to being successful was playing that way then every team would be doing it and beating us but they aren't.
Direct or long ball tactics dont get that malagined when its effective and getting results. We only have to look at the fortunes of our international side late 80's and 90's for that. If we were as structured and as effective currently we would probably shrug and accept that we are being pragmatic with limited players available. Nobody has been too critical about Iceland recent trounments bar the Portuguese and Argentinians who struggled with the physical style (basically they just played poorly and spat the dummy). That considered it doesnt take away from the question marks of when a squad is under utilised. Looking at the quality of international squads retrospectively during spells of the Charlton era and even under Trapattoni if they had been allowed play with a different style under less cautious managers then maybe simply qualifying for finals wouldnt have been considered good enough.
For Cork it is less an issue domestically but in Europe I think results could have been better if Caulfield was less cautious and possibly even trusted his players more to be able to compete technically. Of course when talking about LoI teams in Europe the self destruct moments of defending or missing sitters its no wonder managers will often play it cautious.
Certainly against Dundalk this season, especially in Oriel, Cork got at us when they had good passages of sweeping passing moves. When they reverted to being more direct we were better able to cope. A one in a generation player or season like Maguire's and you could have 10 men in your own box and nearly be competative but it covers up the cracks elswhere which have been exposed this season.
Long was frustrated as much because he knew what to expect and that wasnt managed no matter how basic, it was more critical of his own team than a swipe at Cork, well ok maybe it was a double barb. I remember Wenger saying something similar about not defending Delap long throws v Stoke and it was pure frustration at preparing for it and then not dealing with it. The strong wind was a factor too and regardless of what is said in a breeze like that a team that gets the ball in the air and presses high will get a few breaks of the ball. The was nothing stopping Bohs from doing the same. There is certainly a lot of 'give a dog a bad name' with Cork at the moment and if they were playing like Brazil one long ball is all that would be remembered. Lazy journalism maybe and a touch of mischief prompting the indignation at the lack of respect of achievements like winning a double!? It very evident that there is some issue at a club when supporters are totally at odds with each other, plenty calling for a managers head or booing him after winning the double less than a year ago, is runner up but in Europe with a lot to spare and in a cup final regardless of a style of play. Sky sports generation stuff!
I think that's fair. There's no doubt we go route one a lot, but neither goal came from a long ball or aimless hoop, and we played some lovely football at times. That said, Cummins was absolutely dominant in the air first half and a high ball to him was working.
Long ball isn't an issue when you're winning the ball or the 2nd ball from it. If you're winning, the opposition complain but really who cares. When you're losing and not performing it get slaughtered. That's the nature of it.
That result felt so much bigger than pretty much any one off result bar the cup final in the last 2 seasons. Last year's cup semi was a bit lifeless. Monday was a proper game with proper excitement and absolute elation when we actually turned up and played for the first time in months. Confidence is an incredible thing
If i'd posted the same on the Cork forum i'd have had my head handed to me with being accused of having sneaky digs!! lol Its saying it as I see it myself, nobody is going to deeply care when there are trophies in the cabinet or qualifying for World Cups. The '88 Dundalk double was built on 1-0 and shutting up shop and calling the ball boys in, people grumbled a bit but O'Connors job was not in question. That team would give the more recent teams a good run for their money if allowed all out attack. I dont know why Cork fans are not more inclined to roll their eyes at the likes of comments made by Long and just mention who is on the way to the Aviva etc!!
Last edited by Nesta99; 11/10/2018 at 12:59 PM.
I watched that team, as you perhaps did, and the problem is that that type of football sucks the life out of a club. That team did not connect with the football following public in Dundalk, and attendances and finances suffered.
People say football is a results business, and that is true. But the reality is more complex, it is also an entertainment business.
Good to see some reasonable posts above.
Cork played football the right way last year- they won the double and had huge crowds. This year not so much, but this is still the best spell in their history. Fans will always suggest a bit more could be gotten out of a team, forgetting that getting a hell of a lot less is also an option.
#NeverStopNotGivingUp
I can still hear the commantary on radio 'O'Neill rolls the ball to Malone, Malone back to O'Neill, Malone gets the ball from O'Neill.......and passes back to O'Neill' and so on. I was 10 at the time so didnt get to a whole lot of games to remember the crowds that well. At the time they probably seemed decent enough without much to gauge things by.
Last edited by Nesta99; 11/10/2018 at 1:12 PM.
Don't forget Caulfield himself had taken some little digs/swipes at Long & Bohemians over the last couple of seasons so if this was Long getting a little bit of revenge (even if it comes off a little as sour grapes) then its fine by me. It raised a smile from me - although not as much as the twitter post I saw:
https://twitter.com/munsderbyfacts/s...50051664109568
Bohemians manager Keith Long has continued to criticise the 'agricultural' endeavours of his Cork City counterpart John Caulfield. "We prefer a small community, non-GMO, bespoke urban farming system up here" he told the media.
John Caulfield having digs and swipes? Cant be true!!
We were getting the same criticism last year. The difference being, we were just better at it. The style of football hasnt changed, but the personnel and how suited they are to it has. We have played some lovely football over the past couple of seasons, but it's not the foundation of our teams. Solids defense above all else, high press, hard work and fitness are the base. We only go for the pretty stuff when all of that is 100%.
When we're not playing well, there's less of that.
In terms of crowds, Cork people love teams that win. Start losing crowds will drop. Style of play is very much secondary in terms of our attendances. Although I'm sure if you were floundering lower in the table and playing our style you'd struggle.
Cork weren't hoofing the ball 60 yards to a target man last year. Maguire was dragging centre halfs wide and running on to angled passes.
The football this year is a throwback to when O'Sullivan was the centre forward.
It's funny that people think that. We absolutely were, he was just shorter. Seani was excellent in the air. You're right he also ran the channels, but the balls themselves were the same. The difference being, Seani could get on the end of anything, anywhere in that half. And well, Cummins can't. It's more a case of Seani making them look more like angled passes than hoofs. We're still trying those passes, we're just not getting on the end of them.
Also, last season we were winning more second ball off those balls forward. We lacked that a bit this year and it looks a lot worse and is less effective. Our midfield just hasn't hit the heights of last year, where they dominated every single game first half of it.
We were also much better at set pieces last year. Mainly due to Ryan Delaney. Those goals gave us a comfort zone in many games.
When is the 'coin toss' to see who the home team is?
What's the prize money like for the cup actually?
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