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Thread: VAR Discussion

  1. #181
    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
    The general issue I've had with VAR during the WWC has been how slow its been, sometimes for things that should need just one look at replay monitor, if even that. There are plenty of decisions that the VAR official should be able to adjudicate on without the need for the ref to run off the field for minutes at a time.

    At the same time, since of the commentary on it, especially from the likes of George Hamilton, has verged close to hysteria. Marginal or not, VAR has spotted things refs and linesmen havent or aren't able to. That semi offside is the perfect example, as was the penalty England botched later in the half.

    Refs - especially, if I may dare to say so, female refs - need more time and experience with VAR, so they learn to use it effectively, not excessively, and that it's an assist, not a crutch.
    In fairness, FIFA were in a difficult position. If they allow VAR to be used at the WWC, the refs are criticised for their lack of experience with it. If they don't allow VAR to be used, they're branded "sexist", and all the usual tall tales about discrimination that go with it, for only allowing the Men's WC to have it. In the end, they allowed the Women to use it. And I think that was the right decision.

    Referees leave the pitch for up to 30 seconds at a time, not "minutes", so they can see for themselves all the facts around an incident and make an informed judgement based on those facts. Most delays are for the finger to the ear. Sometimes decisions are complex, sometimes 2 or more parts of the same move have to be checked where just 1 decision can be reached. It takes a bit of time sometimes, but it's worth it if the right decision is ultimately made, as is usually the case.

    If you thought Hamilton was hysterical, it wasn't a patch on the daily rants against VAR from Paul Dempsey covering the Copa America. Some of these fuddy duddies and luddites just don't get it. It's not a question of if VAR will stay, it's a question of how will it expand and how soon will it do so. This is the way it's going to be from now on. Embrace the positive difference it makes or reminisce about the bad old days. Your choice.

    Riley has some welcome comments to make generally, especially on ref's trusting what VAR officials are telling them, but I guess we'll see how likely his "delay of game only once in five matches" will be.
    It's not likely, but he is trying to play the populist line atm and reassure the sceptics, who have been put off VAR by all the negative headlines in the media.

    The pace of English football, coupled with all the appeals for penalties and offsides etc, inevitably means most games will see VAR used at some point. Goals will be ruled out that previously stood and vice versa. For or against it though, people are just going to have to get used to it. It's success is judged by how often the final decision is accepted as the correct one. Which will be the case at least 99% of the time.

  2. #182
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    First day of VAR in the EPL yesterday. One thing happened during the Man City West Ham game that confused me. Aguero missed a penalty (saved, Declan Rice cleared). Retake given after VAR, with the commentator saying that Rice had encroached before Aguero kicked the ball, but not only that, the commentator said that if the keeper had saved it for a corner, there wouldn't have been a retake, as the encroachment needed to have a direct impact - which it did, as it was Rice who cleared it.

    I'm pretty sure that's a different rule/interpretation of the rule we have seen in the past, where any encroachment at all resulted in a retake. So either the rule has changed a bit, or else FIFA are allowing different leagues/associations to interpret rules differently, which seems fairly silly in the long-term to me.

  3. #183
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Certainly seems like the EPL refs are taking a different tack. Only saw the Man Utd/Chelsea game, two VAR checks (for a penalty and a possible red card), both very quick, no need for the ref to trek off to the sideline, both upheld original decisions. In the WWC both of them might have stopped games dead for two or more minutes.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  4. #184
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    A question about VAR checks, which came to me while watching MOTD2.

    If there is a tackle on an attacker right at the edge of the area, and the referee decides it's not a free kick/penalty and plays on and at the next stoppage, VAR checks it as a potential penalty...and privately concludes that it's a foul alright, but happened outside the area so it's not a penalty.

    Do they bring it back for the foul, or just carry on from whatever/wherever the stoppage was?

    Edit: Or, I suppose they actually go the other way and start from the position of the tackle and, upon seeing it's outside the area and not a penalty issue, make no further decisions at all.
    Last edited by osarusan; 25/08/2019 at 11:13 PM.

  5. #185
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    EPL reporting 4 failures on the part of VAR so far:

    https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/49683036


    227 incidents in total that were 'VAR-worthy', of which 6 were changed by VAR, and 4 that they now say should have been. That's not a great strike rate, albeit a low total number so far.

  6. #186
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Is there a way to compare to other leagues and see if the EPL is an outlier or normal? That seems like a poor rate for tech that's been around for a few years at this point.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  7. #187
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Not sure what all the fuss was about the disallowed Chelsea goal. The player was offside. Sky pundits/Kloop would have been moaning if the goal had stood. Souness complained that the linesman should have spotted it - an ankle ahead ! There was obviously no reset in the play so good decision. Now that they can't moan about refs, they moan about VAR.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  8. #188
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    EPL with a clear policy of having the TMO just make the decision for the ref to announce on the pitch, rather than suggesting to the ref that he visit a pitchside monitor to review a decision.

    I think that conflicts with what was VAR policy at one point, but I suppose the policy has changed since then.

    Just from watching Brighton-Everton on MOTD tonight, Richarlison was manhandled in the box (not massively so, but the defender absolutely intended to grab and impede him), and VAR did not intervene. Later, Michael Keane, in a very natural motion, brought his foot down on Connolly's foot, and VAR gave the penalty after.

    I think it has been really inconsistent so far in the EPL. I never expected it mean we get the right decision every time, but I do think we are still seeing genuinely poor decisions either not corrected by VAR, or worse, made by VAR. Having said that, I have to consider the possibility that I just don't know how the rules are interpreted these days.

  9. #189
    Seasoned Pro CraftyToePoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    EPL with a clear policy of having the TMO just make the decision for the ref to announce on the pitch, rather than suggesting to the ref that he visit a pitchside monitor to review a decision.

    I think that conflicts with what was VAR policy at one point, but I suppose the policy has changed since then.

    Just from watching Brighton-Everton on MOTD tonight, Richarlison was manhandled in the box (not massively so, but the defender absolutely intended to grab and impede him), and VAR did not intervene. Later, Michael Keane, in a very natural motion, brought his foot down on Connolly's foot, and VAR gave the penalty after.

    I think it has been really inconsistent so far in the EPL. I never expected it mean we get the right decision every time, but I do think we are still seeing genuinely poor decisions either not corrected by VAR, or worse, made by VAR. Having said that, I have to consider the possibility that I just don't know how the rules are interpreted these days.
    All of this to one side, its ruining the matches for fans the way they are implementing it. Big delays, the ground not knowing why and goal celebrations becoming null & void, which is what people pay in to enjoy. MOTD is now the VAR show its dominating everything there also.

  10. #190
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke View Post
    All of this to one side, its ruining the matches for fans the way they are implementing it. Big delays, the ground not knowing why and goal celebrations becoming null & void, which is what people pay in to enjoy. MOTD is now the VAR show its dominating everything there also.
    It used to be the criticise the the referee show and now VAR has taken its place. I think they don't use the screen on the field for the referee to take the pressure on the ref from the players out of the equation - the decision now being made by some faceless person. Mind you, it's now gone on to the third official with the managers sounding off at them. Klopp and Guardiola both had hissy fits directed at the poor Official on Sunday. VAR needs to speed up and call a foul a foul even if the ref didn't. I just think Henry in Paris so I will always favour VAR.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  11. #191
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    Found Steven Gerrard's comments interesting after the Scottish League Cup Final yesterday (for anyone unaware, Celtic's winner had numerous players offside, no VAR in use): https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019...-rangers-loss/

    "I think VAR has taken something away from the game, so I'd be a liar if I said I'm 100 percent in favour of it.

    "But one thing I do know is that the officials up here do need some support and help. Because there are too many things, not just for our club but across the board, that they maybe miss and need a bit of support on."
    He didn't go into any detail about what he meant. Is there any middle ground between the current standard/operation of VAR and "some support and help"? I've seen variations of this sentiment expressed a bit over the last few months.

    And is it fair to say that opinions in favour of VAR will increase the more clubs now lose out to bad officiating in competitions where there is no VAR? (which is not to say that Rangers were 100% losers because of the officials in this instance: they missed a penalty after all).
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

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