Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 152

Thread: VAR Discussion

  1. #121
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    29,715
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,272
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,484
    Thanked in
    1,543 Posts
    I imagine they want it clearly away from the players. If the screen was around the goal, they'd probably all crowd around it.

    There's also the risk the ball could hit the screen if it were behind the goal.

  2. #122
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gouldavoher
    Posts
    3,897
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    219
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    545
    Thanked in
    370 Posts
    UEFA's current plan to use VAR, from the final qualifying round on, from next season for CPL, then season after for Europa League: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018...var-from-2019/
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  3. #123
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    29,715
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,272
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,484
    Thanked in
    1,543 Posts
    Hmm. How's that going to affect LoI clubs? Who's going to supply the extra camera angles, or will refs be looking at a replay a la MNS?

  4. #124
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gouldavoher
    Posts
    3,897
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    219
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    545
    Thanked in
    370 Posts
    VAR confirmed for CPL 19/20 and Euro 2020: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018...m-next-season/

    I presume 2020 will be the first time it will be used in Ireland? Unless LOI clubs advance far enough in Europe.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  5. #125
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gouldavoher
    Posts
    3,897
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    219
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    545
    Thanked in
    370 Posts
    Confirmed for EPL from next season: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018...e-next-season/

    I think it's fair to say the debate, in terms of "Should it be implemented?", is essentially over, and it's now "How do we make it better?"
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  6. #126
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gouldavoher
    Posts
    3,897
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    219
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    545
    Thanked in
    370 Posts
    UEFA bump up VAR implementation, it will now start from the knock-out stages of this year's CPL and Europa League: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2018...ar-technology/
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  7. #127
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    7,243
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,103
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,507
    Thanked in
    824 Posts
    Interesting.

    There must be some rules in terms of minimum number and quality of cameras. Is the onus on the home team to supply them?

  8. #128
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gouldavoher
    Posts
    3,897
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    219
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    545
    Thanked in
    370 Posts
    Pochettino has become the media's favourite anti-VAR commenter, but makes a strange claim here I think (aside from "Literally nobody likes VAR!", which is becoming a repeated thing from some media sources): https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2019...o-wary-of-var/

    Did a load of fans leave that Spurs/Rochdale game at half-time? A quick Google search didn't find any reference to that. And if they did was it not because of the awful weather that night, not VAR?

    The incident in the first leg of Chelsea/Spurs was strange all the same.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  9. #129
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sadly viewing the houses that were once Milltown
    Posts
    10,116
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    791
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,261
    Thanked in
    709 Posts
    Hate VAR
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  10. #130
    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Location
    foot.ie Night Shift
    Posts
    5,009
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    229
    Thanked in
    160 Posts
    I suppose that's because they usually make the right decision. Your fans told everyone exactly what they thought of VAR after the incident, but you had no case. The wrong decision given on the field was put right on the spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan
    Yeah, I can't see VAR going away, just being refined as you say.

    Some of my thoughts - as the referee has the power to request a VAR review on his own impetus, this leaves him open to endless badgering to do so, as we saw during the world cup. Unless there is a policy that the referee cannot request a VAR review (VAR reviews being a one-way system where the VAR panel make that decision), I cannot think of a good way to stamp that out, apart from just carding it every single time until it goes away, if it ever does.

    Until VAR came along, all that hectoring the ref after he had made a decision was pointless - he was hardly going to change his mind. But now, there is a way for him to do so. The hectoring makes more sense than ever.

    And more fundamentally, I think there needs to be an examination of what the goal of VAR actually is. Is it to get the big decisions right? Or is it to eliminate some of the worst and most critical referee errors? Because they are not the same thing really.
    It's the first question. This is a tool to help referees, and get injustices corrected there and then. It's not a challenge system for players.

    VAR is not going away, it is the future of match officiating, it's going to become the norm soon. It's been introduced to the European Cup next week. Therefore referees will not be standing on the goal line anymore.

  11. Thanks From:


  12. #131
    International Prospect mypost's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2004
    Location
    foot.ie Night Shift
    Posts
    5,009
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    229
    Thanked in
    160 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu
    Imagine Ronnie Whelan's goal v the USSR. Hits the back of the net, wild celebrations. Then the ref - in a manner which at best, I think, wasn't very well signed - decides he wants to see if it should be a free out for high feet. There's a pause of 30-45 seconds while the ref looks at it, and then decides to look at the replay. The moment is killed. That's my concern with the VAR as used.
    In those days, there would have been nothing to question. If you won the ball, that's all you needed to do.

    Ultimately the only thing that matters is whether it counts or not, so if it takes an extra 30 seconds to confirm the goal is legit, fine. The decisive goal in that tournament was offside, even under the old rules. I wish we had VAR around then to correct the mistake. So we would still be on course to get the point we needed to get out of the group, and I wouldn't be talking about the injustice 30+ years later.

  13. #132
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    7,243
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,103
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,507
    Thanked in
    824 Posts
    I thought the VAR-influenced penalty to Man United was crazy.

    I'm not against VAR at all, but that's the kind of incident it shouldn't be involved in. BT had 3 ex-Man United players analysing, and none thought should be a penalty.
    Last edited by osarusan; 06/03/2019 at 9:29 PM.

  14. #133
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gouldavoher
    Posts
    3,897
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    219
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    545
    Thanked in
    370 Posts
    Obvious contact, the arm is out a bit. It could be argued that if he has a mind to turn his back he should have a mind to put his arms closer to his body, and since he does turn can it be considered an "unexpected ball"? God knows the ref had long enough to consider.

    I've probably said it here before but handball could do with some serious work in the laws, particularly the definition of "deliberate". My first description of what the defender did tonight would not be "deliberate". Maybe a bit careless, not mindful enough.

    VAR also gave a late penalty to Porto in the other tie tonight, not quite as contentious. The sooner some kind of challenge system comes in to take the use of VAR out of the ref's purview (so this "clear and obvious" thing can be put to bed) the better.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  15. #134
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    7,243
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,103
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,507
    Thanked in
    824 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter View Post
    I've probably said it here before but handball could do with some serious work in the laws, particularly the definition of "deliberate". My first description of what the defender did tonight would not be "deliberate". Maybe a bit careless, not mindful enough.
    According to BT commentator, the issue was whether the referee felt he had used his arms to 'make his body bigger' (I think that was the term used). I suppose the idea is that by having your arms extended a bit away from your body, you are blocking a bigger area. But given the way the defender leaped and twisted through the air, I think having his arms where they were is completely natural.

    But maybe the issue is that I, and many others, just don't know what the latest interpretations/guidelines are for handball. There was an ex-ref on, explaining how the referee would have reached the decision he did, and I agreed, possibly for the first time in my life, with something Michael Owen said - if that is a penalty according to the rules, then we need to be looking at the rules again.
    Last edited by osarusan; 06/03/2019 at 11:06 PM.

  16. #135
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hill Valley
    Posts
    9,870
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,617
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,834
    Thanked in
    1,807 Posts
    I think the WC taught us that the referees are now giving those kind of ones on review. There were much harsher ones awarded during that competition I think. The handball rule in relation to scoring a goal is about to become unambiguous.

    1. Accidental handball goal won't stand

    Goals scored which have hit a player's hand, deliberate or not, will no longer stand.

    Gallagher said of the change: "It will be significant as we will no longer see a goal scored hitting the arm.

    "80 per cent of the handballs that referees give are not deliberate, but because a player gains a material advantage. Taking the word deliberate out will eradicate that."

    Some ambiguity remains and Gallagher added: "We will still have the problem of asking 'has he made himself bigger, has he put his arms in an unnatural position?'

    "There will still be the arm close to the body that will hit the arm and the referee will deny a penalty."
    Dalot's shot was probably off-target last night, but let's pretend it was flying into the top corner. The handball, accidental or not, would constitute a material advantage for the defender. If an advantage cannot be gained from handball when scoring a goal, why should it be any different when defending one?

    Gary Lineker seems to be of the opinion that they should just penalise handball in all circumstances, remove all debate.

  17. #136
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hill Valley
    Posts
    9,870
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,617
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,834
    Thanked in
    1,807 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    BT had 3 ex-Man United players analysing, and none thought should be a penalty.
    On the flipside, PSG manager Thomas Tuchel was much more open to the idea that it was a penalty.

    No, I think itís difficult. I think there are reasons why you can give this penalty. When he goes to VAR we know he has reasons. With a handball decision, you have soft facts but not hard facts. The shot is wide, and then suddenly itís a penalty.

    Okay. I am a big supporter of VAR, and I remain a big supporter of VAR. When Dalot took a shot, I saw the ball flying straight from his foot and it goes way over the bar. I was surprised to see it was a corner because I hadnít seen that, then he goes to the VAR, so I knew he was going to give it because he had evidence.

    There are too many points in whether we punish it Ė the distance from the player, does he move his arm. Itís 50-50. Some say no when others say yes, thatís the difficulty with handball. But we played on the thin line for 60 mins knowing this could happen.
    They don't make 'em like him anymore!

  18. #137
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Limerick for now.
    Posts
    7,243
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,103
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,507
    Thanked in
    824 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    The handball, accidental or not, would constitute a material advantage for the defender. If an advantage cannot be gained from handball when scoring a goal, why should it be any different when defending one?
    I wouldn't be a fan of a new rule on any handball, accidental or not, automatically causing a penalty to be awarded (or a goal to be ruled out). Although it would be consistent in the way you say.

    But I think that most people who follow football actually have a fairly similar view on what 'should be' a penalty. Using a hypothetical, if a player takes a shot and it smacks off the hand of the defender who is 2 yards away and has his hands down by his sides, 'should' that be a penalty? I don't think so, and am not in favour of law changes that would make it one.

  19. #138
    Seasoned Pro NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
    Joined
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Gouldavoher
    Posts
    3,897
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    219
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    545
    Thanked in
    370 Posts
    Neymar was rather less gracious. I wonder if he'll be cited for his social media posts, certainly managers have been done for less.

    I see a lot of people saying "It was going wide anyway", but does that really matter? And the "distance from the player", as Tuchel mentions, I think that only applies for "unexpected ball", and this wasn't an unexpected ball.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post

    Gary Lineker seems to be of the opinion that they should just penalise handball in all circumstances, remove all debate.
    I wouldn't be in favor of that myself. There are legitimate instances of unexpected ball, and of players trying to move their arms out of the way only to be hit. Those shouldn't be infringements.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  20. #139
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hill Valley
    Posts
    9,870
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,617
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,834
    Thanked in
    1,807 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    I wouldn't be a fan of a new rule on any handball, accidental or not, automatically causing a penalty to be awarded (or a goal to be ruled out). Although it would be consistent in the way you say.

    But I think that most people who follow football actually have a fairly similar view on what 'should be' a penalty. Using a hypothetical, if a player takes a shot and it smacks off the hand of the defender who is 2 yards away and has his hands down by his sides, 'should' that be a penalty? I don't think so, and am not in favour of law changes that would make it one.
    I agree there probably has to be some leeway.

  21. #140
    International Prospect DeLorean's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hill Valley
    Posts
    9,870
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,617
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,834
    Thanked in
    1,807 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter View Post
    Neymar was rather less gracious.
    "How can it be handball when it hits his back?", he said, before the expletives. Not much credibility on the subject after that!

Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5678 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. SPL Discussion Thread
    By Poor Student in forum World League Football
    Replies: 2258
    Last Post: 26/02/2019, 2:36 PM
  2. Betting discussion
    By tricky_colour in forum Support
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02/12/2017, 9:11 AM
  3. LoI/GAA discussion
    By Spudulika in forum Premier & First Divisions
    Replies: 109
    Last Post: 17/01/2012, 8:56 AM
  4. Rules Discussion
    By sligoman in forum Entertainment
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 31/03/2009, 7:29 PM
  5. Stadium discussion
    By Cosmo in forum Drogheda United
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 23/04/2007, 1:30 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •