Fixtures 9th - 12th March

**Ezeikial** · 15/03/2018, 9:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Average points per league game
1.97 - 2015
1.67 - 2016
1.64 - 2017

Q How do the 2018 results measure up so far?

A It is too early to make like-for-like comparisons, but after 5 league match Rovers have a 1.4 points per game average

To add some additional context to this average points stuff, the league winners in 2016 achieved an average of 2.33 points per game with the runners-up coming in at 2.12 points per game

2017 is pretty similar with the champions on 2.30 points, the runners-up on 2.09

League Winners average points per game
2.36 - 2015
2.33 - 2016
2.30 - 2017

Although it has limited relevance after so few games, the current top two in the league are running at 2.4 points per game.

**sbgawa** · 15/03/2018, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Last attempt at an objective analysis of statistical facts in a 3 part Q & A -

Q. Did Bradley improve the Rovers results during his time as Caretaker Manager from July 2016?

A. No
Up to Pat Fenlon getting sacked, Rovers league record for the 2016 season was Played 16, Won 9, Drew 2, Lost 5, Points 29. Bradley was in charge for 17 league games - Played 17, Won 7, Drew 5, Lost 5, Points 26. Rovers were also knocked out at home in both major cup competitions: 3-1 by St Pats in the EA Cup and 5-0 by Cork in the FAI Cup under Bradley’s guidance

Summary of league points acheived in 2016
Fenlon achieved 1.81 points per game
Bradley achieved 1.53 points per game

Q Did Bradley improve the Rovers league results compared to previous seasons, after assembling his own squad for the 2017 season?

A No.
Although the level of decline in results depends on what you choose to measure it against

2015 - 33-18-11-04-65 (Played-Won-Drew-Lost-Points) – Fenlon as manager
2016 - 33-16-07-10-55 (Played-Won-Drew-Lost-Points) – Fenlon 16 matches, Bradley 17 matches
2017 - 33-17-03-13-54 (Played-Won-Drew-Lost-Points) – Bradley as manager

Average points per league game
1.97 - 2015
1.67 - 2016
1.64 - 2017

Q How do the 2018 results measure up so far?

A It is too early to make like-for-like comparisons, but after 5 league match Rovers have a 1.4 points per game average

My last attempt ...even though I should just go and bang my head on a wall as the wall is more likely to listen
Is Bradley in his second full season ? YES
Is his second full season likely to be better then his first ? at this point to early to call
Is investing in Academy's a good idea? Absolutely as I am sure the Cork lads would agree. Kids grow up and become supporters or players
Is someone who decides in a mangers FIRST year in the job that he is no good and then constantly quotes and writes about him worth listening to ? NO although to your credit you do admit to finding objectivity and impartiality difficult so there is some hope that your dark side might lose out one day and see the light.
COME INTO THE LIGHT !

**Ezeikial** · 15/03/2018, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by sbgawa

although to your credit you do admit to finding objectivity and impartiality difficult

In matters LoI, I rarely try to be impartial. IMO being objective is difficult for most LoI supporters, who tend to see things through the prism of their own experience (here's looking at you sbgawa and others).

Maybe we might find common ground on one aspect of this subject - a wish for Bradser to get a new long-term contract with Rovers.

I would cheer a new five year contract extension for the man - would you?

**El-Pietro** · 15/03/2018, 11:09 AM

But where are the results? He lost to Cork City with one teenager in the team. You are saying that the Academy is worth it. Who has come from the academy? What relevance does the academy have on Bradleys performance as manager?
Bolger has played 26 minutes so far this season, Sean Boyd has played 22 minutes. Trevor Clarke has played regularly and so has Sam Bone but thats about it. Kevin Horgan too but hes useless. When I said Caulfield had developed Maguire it was because he took a player who was struggling and turned him into the best player in the league. Which players has Bradley developed?

**placid casual** · 15/03/2018, 11:33 AM

Holy $hit, some people have got too much time on their hands!! And I include the Rovers lads in this.
The reality is that yes, Rovers fans are happy with Bradley.
If opposition fans are also happy that Bradley's in charge( but for different reasons) than hey look, everybody's happy!!
And you can't ask for much more than that..

**sbgawa** · 15/03/2018, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by El-Pietro

But where are the results? He lost to Cork City with one teenager in the team. You are saying that the Academy is worth it. Who has come from the academy? What relevance does the academy have on Bradleys performance as manager?
Bolger has played 26 minutes so far this season, Sean Boyd has played 22 minutes. Trevor Clarke has played regularly and so has Sam Bone but thats about it. Kevin Horgan too but hes useless. When I said Caulfield had developed Maguire it was because he took a player who was struggling and turned him into the best player in the league. Which players has Bradley developed?

Results are not there yet because the academy is only up and running for about 4 years and they started with young kids but they won't come through for a few years yet.
The best of the kids seem to be the ones who started getting coached properly at 8 and are now 12 and 13.
The young kids in the first team setup will all get game time given the number of matches this year have mostly come from other clubs and joined us at 16 or 17 although we have a couple in this years 17's that joined us a few years ago.
Our 11's 12's and 13's are regularly playing in tournaments abroad and also flying over to take on UK academy teams and doing well.
Its a long term investment that won't pay off for several years to come but I'm following Rovers a long time and hope to be around to see it.

Do Cork not have an Academy ? I thought you did , or is it just the 15's 17's 19's

**sbgawa** · 15/03/2018, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by placid casual

Holy $hit, some people have got too much time on their hands!! And I include the Rovers lads in this.
The reality is that yes, Rovers fans are happy with Bradley.
If opposition fans are also happy that Bradley's in charge( but for different reasons) than hey look, everybody's happy!!
And you can't ask for much more than that..

Your right I'm going to bang my head on a wall instead , hopefully Pats will get us back on track on Friday

**El-Pietro** · 15/03/2018, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by sbgawa

Results are not there yet because the academy is only up and running for about 4 years and they started with young kids but they won't come through for a few years yet.
The best of the kids seem to be the ones who started getting coached properly at 8 and are now 12 and 13.
The young kids in the first team setup will all get game time given the number of matches this year have mostly come from other clubs and joined us at 16 or 17 although we have a couple in this years 17's that joined us a few years ago.
Our 11's 12's and 13's are regularly playing in tournaments abroad and also flying over to take on UK academy teams and doing well.
Its a long term investment that won't pay off for several years to come but I'm following Rovers a long time and hope to be around to see it.

Do Cork not have an Academy ? I thought you did , or is it just the 15's 17's 19's

So basically the Academy has nothing to do with Bradleys performance then? So where is Bradleys success?

We do not have an academy.

**sbgawa** · 15/03/2018, 12:10 PM

OMG where is his success?
he is in his second year and no he didn't win the league or cup last year. Should be fired pronto.
A team from the South did win a league and a cup last year with a manager who was more than two years in the job......don't know how he survived.

I give up

**El-Pietro** · 15/03/2018, 12:20 PM

That manager took a team that finished sixth two years in a row to second with a much smaller budget than his competitors. Stephen Kenny did similar when he took over at Dundalk. Bradley and Rovers have not progressed. They are still 15-20 points from first. They are still the third/fourth best team in the country.
Remember, Bradley and Rovers lost more games than Galway last year and have lost 2 already this season.

**sbgawa** · 15/03/2018, 12:32 PM

head bang
head bang

**El-Pietro** · 15/03/2018, 1:00 PM

So no debate then? You are doing what you always do, shutting down discussion, on a discussion forum.

**sbgawa** · 15/03/2018, 1:15 PM

im happy to have a discussion El P but if you can't accept that giving a manager at least two full seasons before judging him a success or a failure what's the point?
In fact I'm pretty sure but can't be bothered to go checking you were saying the same last year when he was one year in the job..

Rovers supporters who go to the games (attendances up well last year) would say they see big improvements on the pitch and are hopeful of better things to come and appreciate the work he does around the whole club..

Bradser will be judged on results like all managers in the end but by people who are prepared to give him a chance not by rival supporters with entrenched views..

**Ezeikial** · 15/03/2018, 1:23 PM

Originally Posted by El-Pietro

So basically the Academy has nothing to do with Bradleys performance then? So where is Bradleys success?

My impression is that Rovers supporters are a little confused about this academy stuff and its relevance to Stephen Bradley and the first team performance.

Many are justifiably proud of the effort and resources Rovers have put in to try to develop this academy experiment - the narrative appears to be that slow senior progress is acceptable as long as there is a hope of good times to come in the future.

To be fair to sbgawa and others, he has not claimed that Bradley is the driving force the Academy, but seems to have bought in to the narrative above by giving him credit for unseen work he allegedly does with the kids. I'm not sure what that is exactly, although I do recall him setting poor example of personal indiscipline being involved in an incident as a spectator at an underage game previously.

Originally Posted by sbgawa

I'd say in his second full season as a manager he is putting a decent stamp on the team and what the non Rovers fans don't see is the work he does in the Academy with the kids and that is where the long term future of the club is.

Originally Posted by sbgawa

I enjoy discussion, hence my comments above about short time in the job and the work he does around the club to try to explain to non rovers fans why he gets the support he does.

**El-Pietro** · 15/03/2018, 1:23 PM

I probably was saying similar last summer when he reached 33 games in charge. I saw no progress over the course of one seasons worth of games and I see no progress in the 20ish games since then. You think there is progress but can't actually describe it in anything other than in terms of "better football" which is impossible to quantify.

If he is judged on results then he should be judged poorly as he isn't getting them.

**RathfarnhamHoop** · 15/03/2018, 1:34 PM

Originally Posted by El-Pietro

I probably was saying similar last summer when he reached 33 games in charge. I saw no progress over the course of one seasons worth of games and I see no progress in the 20ish games since then. You think there is progress but can't actually describe it in anything other than in terms of "better football" which is impossible to quantify.

If he is judged on results then he should be judged poorly as he isn't getting them.

I actually posted the statistics showing the improvement over the course of last season earlier

**El-Pietro** · 15/03/2018, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

I actually posted the statistics showing the improvement over the course of last season earlier

I assume you are referring to the following:

First round last season Rovers lost to both Dundalk and Cork, second round we beat Dundalk, lost to Cork, third round we beat Dundalk and Cork, but no improvement there clearly.

First round of 2018 you lost to Cork City and drew with Dundalk. So going backwards again based on your logic. Also beating Cork City in the third series last year is hardly an achievement, everyone beat us.

**sullanefc** · 15/03/2018, 1:39 PM

John Caulfield:

2014 2nd
2015 2nd
2016 2nd
2017 1st

JC improved us in 2014 but made no progress in 2015 and 2016. Im fact there was a lower points total in 2015 iirc. Many called for his head and El-P was of the opinion he should remain in charge (rightly).

I'm no fan of Bradley, he comes out with an awful lot of guff and is a **** IMO, but criticism now is silly and a little hypocritical in some quarters.

**sbgawa** · 15/03/2018, 1:41 PM

Time will tell boys the jury of normal people will judge in time.
I've given up on expecting anything other than negativity from you two but you are entitled to your opinions which you clearly have.

EZ I love your line "unseen work he allegedly does in the academy" in response to my "He coaches kids in the Academy" is it that you don't believe me he coaches the kids?

**Ezeikial** · 15/03/2018, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by sbgawa

EZ I love your line "unseen work he allegedly does in the academy" in response to my "He coaches kids in the Academy" is it that you don't believe me he coaches the kids?

This is what you said (and is quoted above also)

Originally Posted by sbgawa

I'd say in his second full season as a manager he is putting a decent stamp on the team and what the non Rovers fans don't see is the work he does in the Academy with the kids and that is where the long term future of the club is.

Do you think they are they different in meaning?