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Thread: Referendum on the 8th amendment.

  1. #121
    First Team The Fly's Avatar
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    I thought the turnout would be a bit higher than 64.1% though.

    Turnout for the SSM referendum was 60.52%, which is lower than I thought it was. (All these 60+ percentages can mess with your memory)
    Last edited by The Fly; 26/05/2018 at 7:36 PM.

  2. #122
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    FG committing to legislating this fairly soon. I don't think the other parties will stand in their way either, after the size of the majority.

    Interesting to see if it will be an issue come election time, and if so, how the different parties play it.

  3. #123
    Capped Player OwlsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    FG committing to legislating this fairly soon. I don't think the other parties will stand in their way either, after the size of the majority.

    Interesting to see if it will be an issue come election time, and if so, how the different parties play it.
    I suspect the legislation will go through without to much difficulty. Even though 1 in 3 people was against repeal, I very much doubt that the only party in favour of retention, ReNua, will gain many of those votes. That was their best chance ever to put their name in front of the people but I never heard a peep out of them or if they did sound off, I must have had a bad dose of wax in my ear at the time. The economy by and large determines votes (but not as much as Enda thought) and the HSE crisis has damaged the Government so if there was an election in the morning I wouldn't expect much of a change. Once the abortion legislation goes through it was be old hat until the request for the period to be extended to 21 weeks is promoted and pushed and it will all kick off again but not to the same extent.
    Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.

  4. #124
    International Prospect sbgawa's Avatar
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    If Declan Ganly and a few cronies (or a better version of him) together with a few indos (Mattie etc) were to form a new party specifically to "represent" the people who feel disenfranchised by all the other parties there could be a market for them.
    There has to be room for a party when a third of the voters have literally no one who represents their view.
    Fianna Fail would be the big loser if that party was formed I reckon

  5. #125
    International Prospect NeverFeltBetter's Avatar
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    For the last five or so years I hear this constant "Room for a centre-right/full-on right wing conservative party" stuff, but the only people who ever bothered their hole to form one got rejected by voters wholesale. Besides, there isn't a constituency in the country that doesn't have some Independent or micro-party candidate (Christian Solidarity anyone?) of that persuasion, but they always go nowhere. That 1 in 3 will hold their nose and vote for their FF or FG or Independent TD candidate, just like they did after SSM.
    Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).

  6. #126
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    Good to have the campaign over. It wasn't a quiet revolution- Leo just took a while to listen.

    The Yes campaign were good, focussed on the stories of affected women which was hugely effective. Where to even start with the No campaign- they were absolutely dreadful both tactically and morally. Got desperate from a few weeks out and just crumbled completely into nastiness, looking like the loons most of us always suspected them to be.

    Martin may have saved FFs bacon as they would have looked a very 'No' party without him. Renua were active in some parts of the country but no one cares.

    Must get my Seanad vote sorted at new address so I can help get rid of that reptile Mullen.
    #NeverStopNotGivingUp

  7. #127
    International Prospect sbgawa's Avatar
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    Its a celebrity world , the likes of Christian Solidarity have no hope ,
    But if someone credible came out swinging it would be interesting,
    Its now or never.
    The Abortion thing is dead forever even if a new party put it on the agenda the % in favour of repeal means FG or whomever else couldn't backtrack

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    I suspect the legislation will go through without to much difficulty. Even though 1 in 3 people was against repeal, I very much doubt that the only party in favour of retention, ReNua, will gain many of those votes. That was their best chance ever to put their name in front of the people but I never heard a peep out of them or if they did sound off, I must have had a bad dose of wax in my ear at the time. The economy by and large determines votes (but not as much as Enda thought) and the HSE crisis has damaged the Government so if there was an election in the morning I wouldn't expect much of a change. Once the abortion legislation goes through it was be old hat until the request for the period to be extended to 21 weeks is promoted and pushed and it will all kick off again but not to the same extent.
    Why would there be a demand for 21 weeks?

    It's set at 12 in the prpposed legislation and there has been no indication from anywhere that women are unhappy with having that choice? In fact I would sincerely doubt this is ever going to be an issue again in my lifetime.
    DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?

  9. #129
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    There has to be room for a party when a third of the voters have literally no one who represents their view.
    Well they have nobody who represents that particular one of their views. I presume if Declan Ganley had to choose between pro-choice Fine Gael and a pro-life party who propose massive tax hikes and wealth distribution he'd support FG, etc. If people are that vexed about abortion they will find representation.

  10. #130
    The Cheeto God Real ale Madrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    If Declan Ganly and a few cronies (or a better version of him) together with a few indos (Mattie etc) were to form a new party specifically to "represent" the people who feel disenfranchised by all the other parties there could be a market for them.
    There has to be room for a party when a third of the voters have literally no one who represents their view.
    Fianna Fail would be the big loser if that party was formed I reckon
    Call it Libertas.

  11. #131
    First Team jinxy lilywhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwlsFan View Post
    I suspect the legislation will go through without to much difficulty. Even though 1 in 3 people was against repeal, I very much doubt that the only party in favour of retention, ReNua, will gain many of those votes. That was their best chance ever to put their name in front of the people but I never heard a peep out of them or if they did sound off, I must have had a bad dose of wax in my ear at the time. The economy by and large determines votes (but not as much as Enda thought) and the HSE crisis has damaged the Government so if there was an election in the morning I wouldn't expect much of a change. Once the abortion legislation goes through it was be old hat until the request for the period to be extended to 21 weeks is promoted and pushed and it will all kick off again but not to the same extent.
    Where is your proof for this?
    Long Live King Kenny

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    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite View Post
    Where is your proof for this?
    PBP have already stated they will only support the 12 week period legislation for 5 years then push for longer.
    others will readily jump aboard that cause quite easily especially given the large mandate received last week.

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    International Prospect sbgawa's Avatar
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    I don't think "proof" is possible here but I'd tend to agree that Ireland will follow the same trajectory as USA UK that once it is introduced in a "limited" fashion it is constantly chipped away at to increase the reasons by using every hard case from then on.
    Leaving completely aside whether you are a yes or a no I think that's just accepting reality

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  17. #134
    First Team jinxy lilywhite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbyrne View Post
    PBP have already stated they will only support the 12 week period legislation for 5 years then push for longer.
    others will readily jump aboard that cause quite easily especially given the large mandate received last week.
    and that's 5 TDs out of 80 required. yeah the rest will all jump on board because there is a national blood lust now baby killing women of Ireland
    Long Live King Kenny

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    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite View Post
    yeah the rest will all jump on board because there is a national blood lust now baby killing women of Ireland
    wow, where did that come from?!

  19. #136
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbgawa View Post
    I don't think "proof" is possible here but I'd tend to agree that Ireland will follow the same trajectory as USA UK that once it is introduced in a "limited" fashion it is constantly chipped away at to increase the reasons by using every hard case from then on.
    Leaving completely aside whether you are a yes or a no I think that's just accepting reality
    I think the same - that the limit will be left alone for a number of years, then get moved. But I think that will happen very slowly, and will also be affected (and limited) by any medical improvements that result in earlier fetal viability.

    I would imagine that FG will want to legislate for it along the lines of what they outlined pre-referendum, as they have a now mandate to do so, then not go near it again for a long time, and I'd guess the other big parties would feel much the same.

    In the future, the debate might see the current Save the 8th advocates arguing that the result of the referendum meant 12 weeks and no more.

    I don't think, though, that it would be the 'hard cases' that would shape the future changes. If they are properly legislated for now, it wouldn't need to be such an issue in the future.

  20. #137
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite View Post
    and that's 5 TDs out of 80 required. yeah the rest will all jump on board because there is a national blood lust now baby killing women of Ireland
    Nobody has an abortion lightly. No one.
    #NeverStopNotGivingUp

  21. #138
    First Team The Fly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr A View Post
    Nobody has an abortion lightly. No one.
    It's revealing how you never hear of anyone making the difficult or gut-wrenching decision to have the baby.
    Last edited by The Fly; 30/05/2018 at 12:42 AM.

  22. #139
    International Prospect osarusan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fly View Post
    It's revealing how you never hear of anyone making the difficult or gut-wrenching decision to have the baby.
    I don't really understand your point - the No campaign had plenty of stories from women who thought about seeking an abortion, but after a lot of thought or soul-searching, in the end decided to have their child instead.

    Be that a 'crisis' pregnancy because of their age and lack of money and maturity, or because there was an indication that the foetus would not survive, or would have a disability, and so on.

    It was a fairly common theme I thought, - in response to the Repeal side's stories of women who did have an abortion in such circumstances, the No side (one of its various strands anyway) had stories of woman who went through similar experiences but decided to have their baby anyway.

    I thought it was one of their smarter bits of campaigning - take the opposition's argument and provide your own personal stories to show that it doesn't have to end in abortion.
    Last edited by osarusan; 30/05/2018 at 10:29 AM.

  23. #140
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    I wouldn't be surprised if there's actually a reduction in the number of abortions procured by Irish women when the legislation takes effect. The stress of knowing the option wasn't available locally must have been a huge additional burden, and once flights were booked etc. changing of mind would have been unlikely. At least now there's going to be consultation locally, advice, support etc. and with the proposals to increase access to birth control and improve sex education in schools it should be a much healthier environment for women in general.

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