The conspiracy spreadsOriginally Posted by Nesta99
Sports bar in London the last Cork V Dundalk match on TV. With so many other sports on including GAA they stick up what TVs are showing what in advance to prevent any hassle - they didnt expect the hassle they got from Cork lads that also arrived in for the game as they 'quietly' informed the staff who were LoI champions......
Of course they know. They also know why fans don't want to go there anymore. I'm sure they understand.
It's not like there have been huge crowds recently anyway. There's not likely to be a huge difference between this game and the last.
I won't be going, but as much because of the superstition that we never win when I'm in Oriel, as the safety concerns!
it comes as some surprise to me that players are motivated by the knowledge that many of their supporters are shouting at TV screens instead of being present at the match.
I have visions of John Caulfield shouting out the TV viewership statistics to encourage his players after conceding a goal....
What are you talking about? Who claimed the players were motivated by fans watching on TV?
Youre the 2nd dundalk fan recently to reply to imaginary posts! Ye should work on these 'visions'.
I would still expect Cork to take up their full allocation of the stand seating, actually that area at the front of the stand has a very good view, prob ok to get into the upstairs bar too at ht for a quick drink.
Would agree not much to attract anyone to the away end terrace, hopefully the owners will make improvements next season, they have acknowledged it is the worst in the league.
#DundalkFC - First Irish club to win an away game in Europe (1963), first Irish club to win points in a group stage in Europe (2016).
I was in the stand last time, very few city fans in there. Nowhere near sold out. Ended up with dundalk fans down around us. Most went to the terrace. Not sure if they were out off by the price, or wanted to be in the group for atmosphere etc.
So possibly chose to use the away terrace?
The Cork players are already well aware that there tends to be a moderate travelling support, but I truely doubt that they would dismiss a large and passionate support has having no impact.
Few away supporters potentially makes for an even more intimidating or hostile atmosphere that appeared to spook JC and McCormack so much last time.
Definitely chose it. I think the stand price had a large impact, but wanting to be with the other fans certainly did too.
Again Ezeikial, you are replying to points that were never made. I never said the players would dismiss a large crowd as having no impact. I said the impact was limited when the crowd can't be heard and isn't likely to make a huge difference. Given the players are well aware of the issues there, and are professionals, I don't expect it to have much impact on their performance. Although, if we pull off a win, I'm sure they'd prefer a larger crowd to celebrate with!
It certainly didn't effect the atmosphere at all last time out, having away fans, when you couldn't hear them.
It seems to be a regular feature in your replies to deny what you said and then dance on the head of a pin to justify it. You clearly said that you can't see a big travelling crowd as having an impact:
It is fairly ludicrous claim. Moderating it to say that the impact is limited is somewhat more credible.
The reality for many people choosing not to travel to support their team, is that a lot of red herrings are flung around to justify their decision to shout at the TV screen rather than support their team in the ground.
Most Cork supporters that I have met in person have been knowledgeably and good company, and I find that a small travelling support can take away from an enjoyable pre-match atmosphere.
Whatever about the merits of continuing a tedious debate about the level of impact of a small or passive travelling support, I have no doubt that most would prefer the opposition having limited support instead of having a loud, passionate or raucous support encouraging their team.
The atmosphere in Oriel Park is likely to be even more hostile or intimidating as a result of modest number of visiting fans; even more so because John Caulfield highlighted it as a significant negative factor for his team after the last visit
You continue to argue claims that were never made. I have been clear throughout.
In Oriel in particular, I don't think the away crowd plays a bgg part as they can't be heard from that section. I believe the noise of the crowd is a big factor, in any ground. I don't think away fans in Oriel can be heard. As a result I don't think it has much of an mpact.
I acknowledged it would be nicer for the players to see a big crowd, but since they know the circumstances I don't think they'll be surprised or thrown by a smaller crowd. I don't think it will affect their performance.
You and others disagree. That's fine! There's not a write or wrong here without being able to read the players minds.
I'm not claiming to generalise away crowds in general, affect on atmosphere etc. This is what I think about this situation in this particular ground/stand. I don't think a hundred less away fans that can't be heard makes your ground any more hostile.
I don't disagree dundalk fans would prefer less city fans! Of course they would, understandably. I'm questioning the loud and raucous part, in the away section of oriel. As I said, I was in the stand last time out and couldn't even hear the away crowd from there, even though they were singing.
I'd agree it's great to have an away crowd to mingle with pre game. It certainly adds to the atmosphere for the fans. It's usually great to mix with other fans at LOI games.
If you choose to claim the Family Enclosure, who have run busses to every away game for the last few years are choosing to pull the bus because of 'red herrings', you're simply wrong. John is not willing to run the bus because of the risk to fans, especially with so many younger fans on board. Given what happened last time, that is completely understandable. To downplay that as irrelevant is disingenuous.The reality for many people choosing not to travel to support their team, is that a lot of red herrings are flung around to justify their decision to shout at the TV screen rather than support their team in the ground
* I'm going to leave this as my last reply to you on this. I've no doubt you'll find some small part of the wording to pick at, but we're derailing the thread and it will end up like the other one. I think I've been clear on my views and reasoning for it. Feel free to disagree!
Last edited by micls; 17/06/2018 at 9:27 AM.
Although I agree or accept much of your post, this is clearly an unfair and inaccurate assertion as outlined in my last post
This is fairly ironic given your opening line above - I have not made any such claim about Family Enclosure!
I get why you percieve that an away crowd cannot be heard from the stand, it is the same as the Town end terrace, you often cannot hear the level of support from the away section. I can assure you though that it is often a surprise as you walk around behind the town goal and then in front of the shed and the atmosphere certainly does travel across. It would of course improve if the section was covered - one of the reasons the away section in United Park is so popular for the real death trap that it is is because it really encloses the singing for the crowd and projects it out on the pitch. If there is any sort of breeze blowing in to toward the pitch from the away terrace there is a terrific atmosphere Shed side.
Its understandible the reservations there are with families travelling to Oriel due to a couple of past incidents, (Lack of buses travelling to Derry for similar reasons on Friday for Dundalk support). But for the record the glass throwing incident, the people resposible were found and banned, the access to the rear of the Lilywhite Lounge was never supposed to be open until all away fans left, there was an oversight or error in this and it wont happen again. What happened last day of the season 2014 was also a learning experience as it was a rare occurance that supporters would be on the pitch - in the event of a last day decider like that again I am damn sure that security will be set to cordon off the away section at sufficient distance to keep the miscreants at bay. Tbh anyone who was quicker to head toward away fans than celebrate winning the league or celebrating with the team could do with their heads being knocked together never mid being 'prepared' with items to throw at the ready in pockets.
Im not sure if there are concession for away fans in the away section of the stand stand, but if the away allocation is not being taken up in the stand then I'd be sure that Dundalk FC would be amenable to working out something that could facilitate an appropriate area for those that would like to travel from the family enclosure.
Its been said over and over that nobody is defending Oriel Park, least of all the Manager as its greatest critic. It is what it is and there is no quick fix that would substantially improve things even if I walked up to Oriel Park tomorrow and and handed over $20million for redevelopment. We are all, away and home fans, making do with substandard facilities. We rough it just as much as the away fans unless in the stand. Maybe aesthetics is more important than I think and a lick of paint and a wash of the seats in the away section and suddenly it is no longer a 'death trap'? But in the short and probably medium term of say 2-3 years I dont see a whole lot changing. If there was a sudden allocation of money for redevelopment well it would still take up to 2 years minimum to jump through all the hoops needed to get a major project going (think car parking ala Turners Cross as a basic problem before a block is laid in the ground).
It is Cork fans perogative on whether they travel to Dundalk or anywhere else in the country. It is always a help to a team if they have as much support as possible at any game regardless of how understanding they are. John Caulfield inferred the very same when talking about playing in front of partisan crowds. There are though a long litany of reasons for not travelling to away games, especially by Cork fans. Distance is the main reason. I do roll my eyes a bit on this as well Ireland is not the biggest of countries and Cork to Dundalk is a 3 - 3.5 hours drive these days....abbeyleix et all are no longer taking up hours of stuck in traffic. Derry fans have similar distance to travel and the dont complain half as much. Cork have a great home support but it seems a parochial support that doesnt like leaving home too often (400 regularly from a home average of 4000 would be reasonable). Reminds me of Kerry GAA fans until it comes to an All-Ireland Final, something which Cork GAA supporters regularly slag them off about, and Kerry fans roll out the same responses as Cork City fans too.
Last edited by Nesta99; 17/06/2018 at 1:22 PM.
A 3-3.5 hour journey is fine. Though you have to factor in rush hour traffic around Dublin on a Friday evening and it can take up to 4.5 hours from Cork. However even at 3.5 hours that requires a lot of people to take a half day from work. As a once off thats reasonable, but almost all our games require that and most people who travel to away games can't afford to do it for every away game and so we have to pick and choose which games to make it to.
I don't think Dublin, Bray or Louth based fans realise how tricky it is when virtually every away game requires so much time off. A trip down to Cork or up to Derry is somewhat of a novelty and most of your away games are closer than our closest away games in Limerick and Waterford.
When fans are in a position where they can't make every away game due to work concerns and they have to choose which ones they will go to the facilities and lack of a very good view from the away end in Dundalk are a factor and for most people its very easy to rank Dundalk a little lower, especially with previous bad experiences and the fact that its on tv will make the decision even easier for many.
I personally go to maybe between 1/2 and 1/3 away games. If I could I'd go to them all but work gets in the way. I'd love if every game was on a Saturday. I haven't yet decided if I will go to Dundalk or not but I am leaning towards yes, but that will depend on if someone is driving and even then with the Champions League coming up I may have to sacrifice it as my boss won't be too keen on me taking so much time off in such a short space of time. He wasn't too happy to hear that we are guaranteed two games and we have a good chance at a third.
As El P explains above, most people are working. It's just not doable to travel to most away games. I'm not sure what speed you go, but most definitely wouldn't make Cork to Dundalk in 3 hours on a Friday evening! I'd imagine it would be 4 hours anyway for most. Limerick and Waterford being in the division helps, and we take decent crowds there, but beyond that people have to pick and choose their away games carefully and get time off work. Of the 9 other teams in the division, the Dublin teams would all be a 3 hour trip, 4 or so for Dundalk and Sligo, and obviously a bit logger for Derry. Oriel just doesn't top people's list of where they want to spend that time off.
Fore personally, I'm not going and safety reasons wouldn't be a concern. I get to go to very few away games, for work and family reasons, and having been to Oriel earlier in the season, there's very little incentive to return. There are other trips that are just more enjoyable. Also, we never win when I'm there!
I think the main part of the crowd that will miss this game, will be the family enclosure bus (relative to most games). I don't think the safety issue will stop many others. I'd imagine outside of that 50 people, the crowd will be similar to last time, with some missing it and others going instead. It's not going to be a hugely different crowd from previously, I'd imagine.
Fair points on the sound from the other side. I've only been in the terrace and the stand next to it so was basing the noise on that.
I would absolutely love to be going up for the game. But I've no cover at work so unfortunately very rare for me to attend an away game further than Waterford or limerick, I finish work at 2 on a Friday.
We all know the away section in oriel isn't great, dundalk fans and everyone connected with the club will tell you themselves, it wouldn't put me off going but a few incidents on our previous visits will probably put a few off ever going there again, which is unfortunate really.
All valid points on travel, work etc but such is the problem for any football fan in any league worldwide. Cork fans holding Oriel Park as the bottom of the list as an away game trip well long may it continue for obvious reasons. But Cork fans here and elsewhere almost sound like they are being victimised by geography. Rightly so there is pride in Cork at the level of support for home games, but travel? mypost sponsored spaceships excluded,500 of an average home gate travelling to each away game should not be beyond an aspiration of the club. Its .1% or so of Corks population. We all have to work, and have bosses that groan when asking for time off for a trips to see our club - if lucky enough it might include trips out of the country like Belarus, Reykjavik, Holland, Russia, Tel Aviv, Derry; add in the likes of Cork, Sligo, Limerick etc domestically well its often an early finish on a Friday for us too - its not just Cork folk that are burdened with travel. It may be a good excuse but its an old one that suits! Dont go too far in Europe or none of you will be able to leave Cork for years!!!
Victimised? Of course not. It is what it is. But the reality is we have to travel further over the season than Dublin clubs/Dundalk do. Less of our trips are doable after work. It impacts our away crowds. Same for Waterford and Derry.
It's not something I'm overly bothered about. It'd be great if we had bigger away crowds, but it's no surprise we don't. Fair play to those who do manage to travel regularly, for any club. Away fans add a great buzz to games. Home crowds are of course the priority though.
If we get beyond the first few rounds in Europe I'd say most of us will end up broke/sacked! Most interested in the euro trips tend to book their summer holidays around it.
Had a peek but I can't find any news on tv coverage of the upcoming European games. Any clue if RTÉ or eir will cover the games?
"oh my, that was some beer we had last night, I think I feel like getting sick" Effin Eddie
I think Cork City will announce something tomorrow with regards live streaming the first leg and the 2nd leg will be picked up on TV if the tie is alive I'd imagine. 1st leg clashes with some summer tournament ongoing in Russia. Its like the Toulon tournament but as Caulfield would say - its Mens football.
I'm surprised someone hasn't picked up a few El games. The Shamrock Rovers v AIK game will be good.
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