PAUL McGRATH smiles at the memory. "How generous is that?" he asks. "Here's me a young upstart in the other chair. He gives me the line and then agrees with me to make me look good. He's brilliant at what he does. A really lovely man."
It's not a very big jump from that happy rescue to the scene where Paul McGrath is waking in a hotel room in Tokyo with the phone ringing. The scene where Niall Sloane from the BBC is on the other end asking about the flight out to Narita airport. The one where Niall Sloane is saying, 'Paul, I'm sorry, but you've let yourself down. We'll have to send you home.' You can imagine it. That waking horror? That sudden shame? No, you can't. It was a relief.
"I was punching the air as he spoke. My head was saying, 'thank God, thank God'. I was thrilled to be getting on a plane and going back. I was escaping. I know there's hundreds of ex-footballers around England and Ireland who would have killed to be doing the World Cup for the BBC. From the day I agreed to do it, though, I knew it would be the catalyst. It was months of sheer panic. It was such a relief when it was actually happening. I was being sent home. That's how it was meant to play itself out."
Sheer panic. You can't imagine it. The choking hell of it. He'd been off the drink for a year and four months. He'd had a six-week stay in the Rutland Centre in the autumn of 2000 and they'd sent him out into the world as a different person. That year and four months were the happiest times. Ever.
"After six weeks they send you out as some kind of human being again. That time was the best period of my life. My confidence was back. Things were simple. Me, Caroline and the kids. I was doing bits and pieces, getting a lot of time at home. I loved it."
He did Football Focus and then he did a game - Aston Villa v Manchester United with Gary Lineker and Mark Lawrenson and Alan Hansen and everyone was so easy-going and Lawro was so good to him that he got through it even though the producer behind the cameras kept mouthing to him to 'speak louder, Paul, speak louder'.
The kids loved their new confident father, enjoyed his recharged celebrity. And the BBC liked what they saw too. Niall Sloane came to Dublin and everybody chatted and everybody got excited in that media people way.
Paul could feel that his wife was especially pleased. He would be doing something. There would be profile and money and success and more good times. So he sat and nodded and smiled and in his alcoholic's brain he knew there was a slow train coming but his alcoholic's brain could manipulate the truth with a sweet first touch. He knew and he didn't know.
"I was flattered. It was lovely to be asked. At the time, the person who I was involved with (his wife Caroline) would have liked the prestige that went with it. I know enough to know that after football you've just got your face. I know it has to be kept out there.
"In two years time it's 'Paul Who'? Even my own ego was telling me to do it. In some way it will generate something. And people are telling you you can do it. It's not that tough, it's just talk. In the back of my mind I knew.
"Months before I was due to go out, though, I knew in my heart it would be the catalyst. I lied to myself about it, but I still knew. I was due a fall. It was a horrendous time, so all over the place, so messy."
Alone with his thoughts it would crowd in on him. Television. The World Cup. ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? The scale of it was too big to absorb. His brain would tell him not to look down. OH SWEET JESUS! He had to look down.
The tumble was quick. As the interest in his World Cup work increased, sponsorship and endorsement deals came in. Suddenly, he was carrying a lot on his shoulders. He looked down. Had to. Drink crooked its finger to him one evening in Manchester. He got dizzy and obeyed.
Same old, same old. Drink to forget. Wake with guilt. Drink for the guilt. Wake with more guilt. He got some help. Not enough help.
By the time the plane for Japan took off he knew he was in personal tailspin. The Irish team were in Izumo. His friend Roy Keane was home already. His wife Caroline was on holiday in Florida with Keane's wife Theresa. He remembers very little of the journey.
"I hardly remember it. I know I pestered a few people. I tried to stand Roy's position up. Know I would have put it across strongly and wrongly in the state I was in. I know people said I was talking to Niall's missus Gillian.
"I know I was embarrassing myself. A couple of lads had drink with them, stuff they'd brought on board themselves. I remember having a few swigs with them, I was gone already
by that stage. I wish I'd fallen asleep. I know I was acting the goat.
"When I landed somebody met me from the BBC. We had to go and get accreditation. I could hardly see the poor man who met me. We're driving from this place to that place. I feel like I'm going into a coma. They were lovely people. I think they were hoping I'd just snap out of it."
When the call came he knew there was avalanche of shame and guilt coming after it, but the immediate reaction was relief. "That morning I was thrilled when it went the way it did. When they asked me I should have been strong enough to say that I didn't want to do it. That I wasn't able. I wish I had been. It would have saved everybody. I needed to say that it was too much too soon for me.
"Maybe in a couple of years when I've done a few more things. I should have said I'm not good enough or strong enough to get through it. I was sorry I caused everyone a lot of upset. The outlay they did.
"In my heart, I knew that the choice was just say no in the beginning or to make a holy show of yourself and let everyone down. I chose the difficult way as usual and, in the end, I was relieved.
"That's how your mind goes. You'd rather the shame of the drink than the idea of making a show of yourself on TV during the World Cup. The BBC were magnificent about it in making sure I got home safely."
They sent him home by express post. One night in Tokyo. He came awake in a haze. Phone ringing. A man from the BBC helped him to the airport. That morning was an endless succession of trains and stations, dragging a large suitcase and a heart heavy with shame, trying to keep a conversation going with the nice man from the BBC.
He flew home. Landed. Crashed. Burned. Buried himself in the Keadeen Hotel in Newbridge with a mountain of bottles to explore the inside of. Dipped through nine circles of hell before he checked out. Faced Caroline and the boys eventually. Drank some more. Sank lower than the drink had ever taken him. You think you can imagine. You can't.
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