QuoteWhat does "a key point of success' mean?Originally Posted by oriel
It is difficult to imagine how an investment group can get ROI from spending millions on upgrading Oriel Park (even with Capital Sports Grants). Can you?
Dundalk united playing out of a redeveloped hunkydorrey park. Not unusual for Americans to relocate the franchise. Nearer to Dublin bigger crowd and pick up the Drogheda support........who is it that owns that stadium........who is that behind the grassy knol
What does "a key point of success' mean?
It is difficult to imagine how an investment group can get ROI from spending millions on upgrading Oriel Park (even with Capital Sports Grants). Can you?
There are realistically only 3 avenues that offer Peak6 any decent chance of getting their investment back, let alone seeing a yield on it :
1) Europe
2) Europe
3) Europe
Money spent on a stadium means less money available to spend on a team to deliver results in Europe.
Plus - any stadium redevelopment almost certainly wouldn't work for the level of European competition that they will need to be aiming at to recoup their investment. So unless they can somehow convert it into a huge property play, why would they bother anything beyond tinkering with bits of the stadium ?
Another revenue could be transfer fees. How much would towell Horgan and Boyle have gone for if they were on two or 3 year contracts...a team winning it's home league regularly and playing in Europe even semi regularly can attract decent transfer fees
Its great that this discussion is happening and that there are many points of view and angles to consider. Yes it is about return on investment. It was said earlier by a poster that real indication on what plans are will be if anything at all happens at Oriel Park in due course. But if nothing at all were to happen with Oriel Park itself, the basic addition of full time admin staff will improve things in the short term.
The YDC on its own could have a manager to maximise its potential.
Sponsorship has been decent in recent years but that can improve especially in the medium term if there was better corporate facilities, YDC could figure in this too. It is a massive structure with a lot of empty space and an additional interior floor/balcony type structure with opening the side overlooking the pitch then sponsors/corporate stuff could be accomodated and it wouldnt cost millions to do such a revision to one side elevation of that structure.
Someone dedicated to develpoing the youth structures or an acadamy project is very likely planned. Initially, again short term, this is initially appointing a full time employee.
The quality of merchandising is superb from CX+, Dundalk gear may have limited appeal outside of Dundalk but with additional staff there is room for improving sales both online and with the example of the success of the store that was opened in the Marshes Shopping Centre.
General admin on processing season tickets, matchday tickets, advertising games, marketing the club etc should improve.
There are very basic (as we all know too well) improvements that can be made to Oriel Park that lack of addressing really bugs supporters eg the infamous 'puddle' entering the shed. Improved organisation on match nights should happen and dare I say a professional security company being used could happen. The last couple of things wont have any major impact on revenue but short term would improve general goodwill (unless you are the fans stopped with flares or half dozen Dutch Gold).
Bars, of which there are currently 2 operating with another easily enough refitted YDC side. These have been important income streams and can be improved possibly under a general manager type or whomever would be managing the YDC.
The programme and website, media side of things are excellent as we know and essential for any club. An addition of a fully organised and stocked online shop is the only real improvement here that I can think of but with so much heavy reliance on volunteers well there was only so much could be done and now the possibility of some additional organisation and staff and this type of service could be provided.
None of this will make much if any return on investment but it could push the club along nicely toward being self sufficient in terms of staffing and the general day to day running of a club with aspirations to be fully professional type outfit.
After this we get to the likes of capital investment on facilities, Oriel Park, training acilities and youth academy. How invested the new owners are in this project of theirs, and not just financial investment will have significant bearing on what is done medium/long term. Lets hope that they have complete pride in what they do and want everything right including Oriel Park, not just inviting their pals over for games when it is in Europe and the game is in Tallaght or the Aviva and letting on that this is real face of the club rather than just borrowed a few times a year.
European progression and the money that goes with and transfers are the obvious ways to make their money, nobody is foolish enough to think much else. If (a big if for the worriers) things do work out in general like the stuff above it will be progress. Get the most out of what we have starting off simply. Then if we can average x amount from Europe over time then we may see much more in terms of working to host european games in Dundalk. Or they could just build an 8000 cat 4 stadium from the off....
Even on 3 year contracts id be surprised if all 3 combined would transfer for much more than say 600k and probably not that even, so about winning 1 CL tie (old format) and EL play-off income with a decent draw. Until there is a sustained climbing of the rankings by the LoI and its clubs initial fees will still be relatively low regardless of length of contracts. Imo add-on clauses would generate more than an initial fee, if the player succeeds, but at least with longer contracts those add-ons can be included in the overall transfer.
Last edited by Nesta99; 23/01/2018 at 10:40 AM.
Exactly look at Celtics model. They made 7million on van dyks transfer from Southampton to Liverpool.
Whatever the investors decide to do is outside of the control or influence of fans and officials in the club who miraculously converted a dying club to one of the highest performing teams and clubs in the history of the league.
The investors will be remote and disconnected and faceless compared to your local businessmen who have sold the club.
Do Peakys even have an office to put up a Christmas tree?
A lot of people are going to be bitterly disappointed if this works out well for Dundalk.
Artists impression of the new away supporters entrance to Oriel Park
Have they had this happen every year though ?
Transfer fees are erratic and significantly even more of a gamble than European progression. They would be nothing more than an added bonus, rather than a core part of any sensible plan. You can't budget for transfer fees, but you can for making Europe most seasons.
Is it in the Away end to keep Maxi and his petrol can from it ?Artists impression of the new away supporters entrance to Oriel Park
Maxi is reformed. He may well be appointed Chief Fire Warden
Van Dyk was 11.5 million and they got 7.5 on top
Victor Wanyama 12.5
Fraser forrester 10
That's 40m in the last few years that comes off the top of the head plus who knows what sell ons or other benefits.
I'm not saying Dundalk will get that kind of money but if you have the cash to hire decent players on contracts there is potential to become a "selling and development club"
Combination of a bit of success in Europe and you really have a double whamy.....like I said earlier as a Rovers fan I'd be worried
Bah SPL is knock off micky mouse quality!! Sure if it wasnt for contract issues Dundalk have lost a top player or 2 to transfer in each season from 2013. We could even have had a sell-on clause in with Seanie's switch to Cork. So Hoban, Towell, Boyle, Horgan, Maguire, Mc Eleney, McMillan, O'Connor, nearly Gannon - puts Celtic in the ha'penny place like......
Well that's a relief. Thought you'd gone start raving bonkers for a while.
You may take off a couple of zeroes at least from those figures I think.
Still grounded on planet earth
The net point I was making was that even a few hundred grand a year on net transfer income go's along way towards sustainability and with a successful team its not unrealistic. Celtic are in a different league (in every respect)
I'm in the excited but worried camp. About 80% worried. Looking at it as an investor it seems insane to put any significant money into Oriel. While all Dundalk fans would love to see Oriel transformed into a UEFA Cat4 stadium, or at least not a ****hole, surely an outside investor would be happy enough to play 3 or 4 big games a season in Dublin and spend the minimum on Oriel. And I don't see it as a great investment. You need a significant number of top notch results at a European level which has never happened (consistently anyway) in Ireland. My concern is that in 2-3 years when we haven’t quite made the group phases after hard luck stories against Malmo, Dinamo Zagreb and Celtic they’ll get bored, get out and leave us with an equally rubbish Oriel and a load of contracts we can no longer pay.
The only way to make profit at Dundalk is on the pitch. Presumably the plan at a bare minimum is to qualify for Europe each year (which is realistic in the short-medium term) and more aggressively to qualify for the Euro groups. Getting to the groups is a major challenge though. Two exceptional League of Ireland clubs have managed it in 25 years. Even assuming money is no object and imagining Dundalk’s playing budget is suddenly, say, doubled, it takes time to bed new players and to move to the next level. Investment in the squad has its challenges- bedding in new players, convincing good players to stay in the league or come to the league, then if all goes according to plan, keeping players motivated when we’re dominating the league at a BATE/Rosenborg level, which is a necessity if we are to compete at a level that means making EL groups every other year and maybe sneaking into the CL groups at some stage in the next 5-10 seasons. To make the EL groups this year we’ll need to be beat two non-seeds then two very serious clubs with large to massive budgets. In our entire European history we’ve beaten one half-decent side over two legs (BATE). To make the CL we’d need to beat one small country champions and then three big clubs. After winning the league of course!
Great post seand, covers mine and most supporters concerns and outstanding questions. My only hope in what you are saying is that the new owners are aware of this, they would have to be wouldn't they? Day one when they sat down with Paul and Andy and said we want to be in European group stages every season I presume the answer was "Great, but....." Paul and Andy know the score and wouldn't lead them down the garden path as they know it would only hurt the club in the long term
Does the new type of ownership change the relationship between the club volunteers and Dundalk the club/business? My own view is that it probably will but gradually.
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