Would love it too if Robbie became involved. He's a real diplomat when he talks about the game so he wouldn't have a problem dealing with the press. And I think he knows a little bit about the game itself.Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Maybe stick 11 on the goal line? They would struggle to score 5 if we did!Maybe we should just have somebody on both posts for the full 90 minutes. We play so deep we don't have to worry about the offsides trap anyway...
Would love it too if Robbie became involved. He's a real diplomat when he talks about the game so he wouldn't have a problem dealing with the press. And I think he knows a little bit about the game itself.
Serious question, is he still playing in India?
I think we started with the wrong team last night but what’s most disappointing is how we imploded once Denmark got the equaliser. The team lost their heads and panic set in for those 3 minutes. 1-1 at HT wouldn’t have been so bad.
The individual errors were Sunday morning football bad. The two goals Ward ****ed up are goals I see from amateur players who are hungover - but you’d still get balled at for doing it. They should not be taking place in a World Cup playoff. MO’N can be blamed for the style of football & team selection but howlers from players falls squarely at the door of the players themselves. They’ll be feeling the hurt & Ward has had a good campaign but he messed up in our biggest match. That 2nd goal is criminal.
I think MO’N on the whole has done a good job. We’ve taken some big scalps & it’s a shame that will all be forgotten about in the aftermath.
MO’N knows he messed up big time at HT. The McGeady sub was mind boggling & no CM explains the 1-5 result. We went from cautious to all our attack and paid the price.
He has also probably been a bit too loyal to some of the players as well. Brady has been terrible for ages and should have been hooked but managed to stay on (whilst moaning and only wanting to stay on set pieces).
Where do we go from here? We need to keep the ball better but we also need to retain some elements of what we are good at. We need new players but do we have any top class players coming through? The FAI will probably want to keep the MO’N/Keane partnership because it generates interest (media and fan wise). If they appointed a lesser name whilst in a transitional phase with untested players then I’d expect the interest to drop in the national team - they still need to sell season tickets. It’ll only be us saddos on foot.ie talking about them. The papers will have a 24 hour inquest on the state of the game in Ireland and talk about grassroots etc but then the focus will return to Man United and Liverpool and before you know it all is forgotten.
At the end of the day we need better players. To do that the LOI needs to flourish and/or talented youngsters who’d normally head to England need to look elsewhere for their development.
Martin O'Neill has not done a good job during this campaign. The man who was so, so brilliant in leading Celtic and Leicester to glory days, has somehow, somewhere, gone missing in action. I posted the case for him / against him in another section, but here it is again.
The Case For O'Neill Staying:
1. He was hired to do a job for the FAI, a job where the goal was to get his team to the World Cup. He came very very close.
2. He has blooded a couple of good players in Callum O'Dowda and Cyrus Christie
3. He has been loyal to his players.
4. Getting rid of O'Neill would mean starting all over again.
5. O'Neill has a good grasp of the Irish scene, whereas a foreign or English manager might not.
6. He restored confidence to the team in that they became hard to score against.
The Case Against O'Neill Staying:
1. Ireland were as lucky as lucky can be in this campaign. We needed teams to do us a series of favors in the final two games and all of the favors came to fruition. It was an uncanny run of luck. We were also lucky in Wales, having defended for most of the ninety minutes and also in Georgia, again having defended for almost ninety minutes.
2. O'Neill's loyalty to his players was a major part of his downfall. It was clear to everyone that he stayed loyal to Glenn Whelan, when he should have jettisoned him for a more capable midfielder. Proof of his wrongdoing regarding Whelan came in the final three games where he stared Arter in his stead (if Whelan was so brilliant why would he drop him for the team's three most crucial games). Also he stayed loyal for far too long to Daryl Murphy. Murphy had scored a goal in Serbia but was not worthy of a place in the starting eleven (many would argue, and rightly so, he wasn't worthy of a place on the subs bench either). Be that as it may, having been picked on the back of a two goal performance against Moldova, Murphy was made the main striker in Cardiff. It was patently obvious after 45 minutes that he was completely ineffective in the role he was playing. Admittedly if he was given a ball or two in front of goal he might have made hay, but under the circumstances he should have been withdrawn at half time in Cardiff. O'Neill's loyalty to his man meant that we had no tip to our spear. We emerged with a victory nonetheless, but there was no apparent evaluation of Daryl's performance and so he was given two subsequent starts against Denmark. Again he should have been withdrawn at half time in Copenhagen - Long or Hogan are far more mobile - and insanely he was started from the off in the Dublin game. Loyalty, blind loyalty from O'Neill cost his team.
3. O'Neill was single handedly responsible for the dropping of two points against Austria. Austria were one of the weakest teams to visit Dublin in years. They were there for the taking, yet we treated them like they were Germany. We played scared - hoofing the ball all day long and paid the price with the goal against us just before half time. We spent the rest of the game chasing the win and, inexplicably, Hoolahan was kept off the pitch until the final twenty minutes. When he came on, Wes changed the game. We got an equaliser and almost a winner. Proof positive that he should have started.
4. Hard to outdo the performance against Austria, Martin hit new depths with the performance in Tblisi. One was left to ask oneself if the players had been instructed to stand in their own penalty area and just kick the ball back to their opponents rather than try something constructive? How could a manager ask his players to do that? He never would - it is the equivalent of football suicide. But, based on the subsequent evidence, that's apparently exactly what Martin O'Neill instructed his players to do.
5. More of the same against Wales. We defended well, no doubt about it, but remember Wales were without their two most creative players (Allen being injured), and got the smash and grab goal.
6. O'Neill basked in the glow of the Cardiff success, and even deserves a modicum of credit for his team's keeping a clean sheet in Copenhagen. But having said after Copenhagen that we needed to be creative in the return leg, the manager left his most influential player off the park from the off. If Hoolahan was not good enough, or not influential enough to play in three quarters of the tie against Denmark, why then bother bringing him on for the final quarter. Very misleading. Did Wes have something to offer the team or not?
7. The sum total of Martin O'Neill's performance as a coach for this campaign was misguided loyalty to his players, and a catalogue of highly questionable decisions regarding team selection. Ultimately it was his suicidal tactics (the performance in Tblisi is beyond reproach) and the style of play he fermented with his players which are most galling
Maybe a long distance cover of Eriksen, he was also covering space in middle of the 5m box, he didn't spot the threat of Christiansen and made a feeble effort to block the shot.
https://youtu.be/C3MBiivBHz0?t=46
Last edited by geysir; 15/11/2017 at 8:57 PM.
Looks like Meyler nr18 to me.
Robbie Keane? Really, a come on guys! Monosyllable and dull. He will never be a manager, sorry to burst that bubble!
I don't think they want him as manager they just want him involved. Maybe like John Elway is with the Denver Broncos.
On the first goal there is plenty of blame to go around.
The short corner is taken. McClean is trying to mark 2 people at the edge of the box, including Christensen who scores it. Arter is standing with legs like the Boyne Bridge and is done far to easily with the nutmeg. Once that happens he should really foul Sisto rather than let him into the box.
While that was happening McClean appears to give a shout in the general direction of Ward and Brady. warning them about Christensen. However they are occupied by other players and can't deal with him any more than McClean can.
Sisto plays the ball across, By this time Christie has gone to the middle of the goal (reasonably imho). Christensen is about to jog onto the ball yards from the goal. Meyler has to see the danger and attempt to get part of his body between the ball and the goal. His challenge isn't good enough. Chirstie is in the correct position, but is completely flat footed. Once Christensen gets the shot away, scruffy as it was, it's too late.
Meyler and Christie were both in decent positions, but both were too slow to react to the danger. It was that, and Arter's original mistake that cost us, rather than it being a great Danish move or a terribly dangerous situation.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
You have a crystal ball into the future?
Monosyllable and dull?
Robbie Keane is one of the most diplomatic speakers I have ever seen. Never gets himself in trouble with the words he speaks.
And the man knows a bit about football wouldn't you say.
Forget the post mortem about last night. What vision do you have for the future?
Just a thought, but might O'Neill's style of play, direct one football, become obsolete as we will probably become reliant on Maguire and Hogan upfront. I know Long will not retire, but with only one obvious target man within the squad, you would assume a different style of play may emerge.
Painful rewatching that capitulation and painful writing this blog but here it is.....
http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/201...-no-mercy.html
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Last night was awful. I was so disheartened, especially after it all started so well. I was expecting a tense, nail-biting 90 minutes, but the Danish goals certainly settled the nerves pretty quickly...
There were individual errors, sure - even our goal came from a Danish mistake - but I think O'Neill's tactical calls were very, very suspect. Clueless and embarrassing really. He's a great motivator - there's no doubt about that - but when it came to the crux (after having played things far too safe the whole campaign and happily settling for second best just because it still kept us "in with a shout" when automatic qualification was very much there for the taking), his tactical flaws were, once and for all, very badly exposed.
Before Denmark scored, we were pressing well and seemed to be managing OK - even Murphy or McClean could have added a second goal for us - but we panicked once they scored the two in quick succession and the wheels promptly came off the cart. When a team isn't organised properly, the chance of mistakes being punished is obviously increased.
O'Neill pretty much gave Eriksen free reign by taking off both Arter and Meyler. Bringing both McGeady and Wes on showed positive intent and I was initially enthusiastic about what I thought was a brave call, but he took the wrong players off and it soon became apparent there was still no actual game-plan or strategy. We'd committed men forward but still couldn't get the ball to them, whilst Denmark were given more space to play in our half. Did O'Neill think Denmark would just sit back and let us have the ball for the second 45 minutes?
Either Brady or Hendrick should have been pulled off at half-time. Brady was having a stinker and Hendrick had done absolutely nothing all half. Arter and Meyler were actually doing OK and provided an essential link between defence and attack, as well as covering the space in which Eriksen likes to operate. You can overload the attack all you want, but without that link, who's going to get the ball to the attackers you've just brought on?
From the outset of the second half, we huffed and puffed a bit more, but Denmark were actually the team who always looked more likely to score. And then for O'Neill to totally gut our vulnerable defence by replacing Clark with Long... We could have lost by more if it wasn't for Randolph, who was a stand-out performer over the two ties, despite all the goals we conceded. O'Neill's changes were the sort of changes a school-kid playing 'Football Manager' might make.
The first goal was calamitous. Were the players asleep or does O'Neill not have them drilled for set-pieces?
The Danes had multiple free men in the corner and at the edge of the box with no Irish players picking them up, so we were always going to be in trouble with our players scrambling to cover as soon as the short corner was taken. You can see Duffy instructing someone to cover them in the screenshot above.
The way the ball bobbled in off the post and then Christie's trailing leg was a sickener. It's hard to blame Christie really though as he was stretching, as he had to do. Someone suggested above that Christie was positioned poorly when the corner was taken, but he was on the post when it was taken (as can be seen above) and the situation evolved, which is why he eventually ended up closer to the centre of the goal whilst Randolph covered the front post from the threat presented by the incoming Sisto.
When the ball eventually bobbled Christie's way, he had to react. He couldn't just stand there and do nothing. As a result, he was off-balance and wasn't to know the ball was going to bounce off the post and back onto the leg on which he was balanced. He was stretching to try and block it because he obviously thought it was going to roll over the line. His fear was a reasonable one and I think it's harsh to blame him for the first. He was unfortunate.
In saying that, Christie had a poor game otherwise and we were lucky Stryger Larsen and Sisto didn't punish us with two decent chances due to Christie having been caught out of position on both occasions. His defensive positional awareness is poor and we've missed Coleman big-time, whilst also failing to blood Doherty.
On the second and third goals, Brady could have done much better in tracking Jørgensen and Eriksen, but I doubt there was any instruction there for him to track back after Arter and Meyler went off. For the second goal, Brady put Ward in trouble, and then, unforgivably, just gave up on trying to limit the developing threat.
Brady (circled in yellow) is racing after Jørgensen (circled in red) in the screenshot above, but seconds later, as shown in the screenshot below, he's just given up and decides to have a casual jog.
If he'd kept up chase (like Ward, who eventually ended up closer to Jørgensen than Brady, did, despite Ward being further away from Jørgensen than Brady after the chase commenced), I'm not saying Brady necessarily could have intercepted the pass into the centre from Poulsen, but he could have at least pressured Jørgensen and made it more difficult for him to find Eriksen totally free to his left. And where was Christie again?
Hendrick was keeping an eye on Eriksen in the lead-up to their third goal but then left him free to receive the ball as he had to go challenge Sisto, the man in possession. Brady was just jogging around in space and was completely asleep to the fact that Hendrick would inevitably be dragged across the field and away from Eriksen to cover Sisto on the ball. As a result, Eriksen was left with acres of space to shoot and all the sleeping Brady could do was watch from metres away. With Meyler and Arter gone, you have to assume the job of neutralising Eriksen rather ridiculously fell to Hendrick and/or Brady.
Ward was off-balance for the fourth goal, but we were horribly exposed with absolutely nobody in sight to try and mitigate the error as, once-again, Eriksen was totally free in that space in front of our box. Hendrick was far too far away from him and McGeady was chasing the Dane's shadow. You just won't get away with that sort of thing and it was a direct consequence of O'Neill's tactical mismanagement. We don't have a world-class player like Eriksen, but that doesn't mean we can't neutralise him, or at least make sure to try and do that. We did that well on Saturday night, but last night we let him do whatever he wanted and he duly punished us. To have the utter donkey Bendtner then score against us was just salt in the wounds.
I think this should have been the curtain on O'Neill's reign but it looks like we'll be stuck with him for another two years. It's not very uplifting or inspiring. I don't know why the FAI didn't wait until after the campaign - now, in other words - to make the decision on the new contract offer. Last night would have been the perfect cue to freshen things up a bit. It wouldn't necessarily have to have been a "sacking in disgrace"; just a matter of letting the old contract run its course and then freshening things up.
What does O'Neill offer for the next two years? Is he bringing us forward? If anything, we're regressing; frustratingly, performances have deteriorated over the past year or two and our play has sort of folded inward or backward on itself and gotten more agricultural and basic. Our supposed "plan B" (Wes) will almost certainly retire as he's 35 and a half. I just fear we'll be having the same conversation again in two years.
And what was up with O'Neill walking out of the RTÉ interview? He behaved similarly during interviews after other poor performances recently. He should face the heat and stop being so defensive and evasive; there are legit questions that need to be asked and that he needs to answer.
Big structural changes are needed within the game nationally; being so reliant on over-30s and players developed outside of Ireland tells its own story. But that's the same old story we've been shouting about it for years. Euro 2012 was supposed to have been a wake-up call. Losing 4-0 against Spain was bad, as was losing 6-1 against Germany at home under Trap, but this was much worse as, with the exception of Eriksen, Denmark are at our level. Will this be the wake-up call? Sadly, I don't have much hope that it will be.
I was disappointed and disheartened to see the stadium so empty as 90 minutes approached. I thought we were the "best fans in the world"... The players deserved to be thanked for their efforts throughout the campaign; the sincerity of their heart and effort has never been in doubt and they gave us some truly magic moments.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 16/11/2017 at 12:40 PM.
Are you referring to McClean? He's physical, tenacious and impassioned, but a "genuine scumbag"? No way. I can't agree with that at all.
Allen's head injury was caused either by clashing into the oncoming Meyler or by banging his head off the ground when he fell. McClean budged into Allen, but he did not directly cause that injury.
Poulsen clashed into the oncoming Ward after a fair shoulder from James. Are you saying James intentionally shoved Poulsen into Ward's elbow in the hope of injuring Poulsen? Things were moving quickly and I don't think you can accuse James of knowing that his attempt to budge Poulsen off the ball would result in Poulsen injuring himself off Ward. I'm pretty certain the ref stopped play because the player was down injured rather than to give a free-kick, because I'm not sure there was actually a foul there.
There wasn't a huge deal in the Bendtner tackle that gave away the penalty. It was in the 90th minute, James was physically tired (and obviously mentally drained too) after having chased back over half the pitch whilst we were already losing heavily. It was little more than a clumsy trip in an attempt to prevent a shot; it was hardly a "scumbag" attempt to injure the Dane.
I don't recall the Sisto incident. What happened there?
He also has no coaching experience. If he wants to get into that side of things, let him do it at club level somewhere,and see how he gets on, let's not give him a job in the national team on the basis of his playing career: a mistake we've made before.
I think we have a lot to feel confident about. We have problems for sure but we also have the opportunity of a full year without an important fixture to bring in new players and try to plug the gaps in the squad
We have options in goal, but realistically it will come down to who is playing at a decent level by the time we play a qualifier for the Euros. I'd like the back 4 of Coleman, Duffy, Clark, Brady to be carved in stone by then.
I think we can expect the following from those in or around the current squad to be available until the next Euros
Randolph
Elliott
Christie
Coleman
Doherty
Clark
Duffy
Long
Egan
Brady
Horgan
Hendrick
Hourihane
Meyler
Arter
O'Kane
McClean
O'Dowda
Long
Hogan
Maguire
O'Brien
Will Keane is also possibly going to be added to that list.
The holes we need to plug are, in my opinion, left-back, and some real creativity in midfield.
With that being the case i'd be hoping to find opportunities for Greg Cunningham, Enda Stevens, Connor Ronan & Liam Kelly to come into the squad. As someone said above we will probably have to give a lot of players a chance to sink or swim. I think I'd rather invest time is guys who are under 25. I don't know about giving up on the Euros as someone suggested above, but the new players we bring in I would prefer to give the chances to people who will stilll be around for the 2022 World Cup.
Last edited by backstothewall; 16/11/2017 at 3:38 AM.
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
Christie should have been where Arter was he is left back after all and used to that situation, After should have been central, his usual position. And it goes without saying Christie should not have been on the post. But still, 5-1, 4-1, it is still game over.
Was always going to be difficult when we failed to get an away goal, if they get one we need too, which is about our max, indeed our max against
a none bottom 3 side is pretty much one.
I think what really undone us was scoring early on, I guess were got crazy thoughts into our heads such as "we can actually play a bit".
Had we not scored we might have ground out a 0-0 draw to take it to penalties, our only realistic chance, the problem there is
parking the bus for 120 minutes, a tall order with 20% possession, we are dead on our feet after 90 minutes of chasing.
Once we scored they lost all fear of us scoring, they had to play football, they could not be defensive as they were at home, fearing
the away goal.
So.... they start playing football and realised we can't - game over.
To be fair though we did have a few chances which might have gone in, McClean and Murphy iirc.
We struggle when we have top play football are opposed to defend as we have no real experience of doing it, we basically
only have one player who is comfortable with the ball at his feet, it is either hoof it up field for the defenders or head down
and a mad goal bound scramble for the forwards. Passing it around is not really an option as 2 passes is about our max
possession length.
But give credit to Denmark, they are a decent side and they can play football when they want to, I think they will do
well in the Russia, the are on a good run, 19th on Fifa rankings, up 7. Unbeaten in their last 10 game, I think their
100-1 for the the world cup is generous, I expect they will get out of their group, and then who knows?
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