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Thread: Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Tuesday 5th September 2017 - World Cup 2018 Qualifier

  1. #21
    First Team Fixer82's Avatar
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    McGeady and Hoolahan injury doubts for tomorrow

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    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    Wonder if the knocks are why neither started on Saturday?

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    First Team Fixer82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    Wonder if the knocks are why neither started on Saturday?
    Doubt it

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    Seasoned Pro jbyrne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetsujin1979 View Post
    Wonder if the knocks are why neither started on Saturday?
    id say hoolahan didn't start as he was being kept fresh for tomorrow. mcgeady looked lively when he came on

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbyrne View Post
    id say hoolahan didn't start as he was being kept fresh for tomorrow. mcgeady looked lively when he came on
    If that's the case it's a risky tactic as a player can always pick up a knock in training. Although I don't believe it to be true anyway. O'Neill has not trusted Wes to start much games in these qualifiers. Moldova is the only one that springs to mind.

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    Seasoned Pro shakermaker1982's Avatar
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    The most frustrating aspect is that we know the squad can play football. We've seen it during the last campaign and the Euro's.

    I eventually became a massive critic of the Trap towards the last 18 months of his reign because of the style of football and if what was served up the other night continued I'd start to question the manager. I'm hoping MO'N will correct this - I think we miss Hendrick because he is a ball player so it's a shame he is injured.

    The players that dictate the style of play are your central midfield players. If they don't take responsibility then you are left with your less comfortable/technical players (the back 4) making decisions under pressure (which they don't want unless they are Pique) resulting in the inevitable hoof. Watch Glenn Whelan. He is terrible for it. He'll point to the centre back to play it back rather than move into a position to receive the ball. It drives me crazy. Arter was woeful as well but he hasn't had 80+ caps of doing the same old ***** I must be banging on about this for the last 4 years now but I think the Georgia game will be the last straw.

    Playing Walters also seems to send out a massive flashing beacon to our players to hoof the ball out wide because he'll compete well. However it's a 50/50 ball.....

    We need to be brave. I don't expect Guardiola style pass and move overnight. I'm happy with us just trying to mix it up a bit. Back the technical guys like Hoolahan. He does make us play better. That cannot be disputed.

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  9. #27
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by geysir View Post
    They didn't have a shot before ht.
    Not sure what game you were watching?

    Two gilt-edged chances in the first half on these highlights, plus a disallowed goal (let's consider that not a chance as he was offside - but not by much). "Looking ominous already" and "Ireland pegged back in their own 18 yard box" are two phrases from first-half commentary too.

    We were dire in that first half in particular in terms of ball retention and ability to string 4+ passes together - very similar to last night and to Serbia. (And yeah, maybe to Holland too. Not that it stops McAteer and Long's goals being up there as my favourite Ireland goals)

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    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark12345 View Post
    "They were never going to throw enough men forward to leave themselves vulnerable to that (a counter attack)." I don't know what you mean by this? They were camped in our half for most of the first half. Had we an outlet ball to McGeady and another crafty winger like Horgan then we would have presented them problems.
    This graphic from the BBC depicts the average positions of Georgia's players and our players over the course of the game:



    It's pretty self-explanatory. We sat deep and Shane Long, the only player of ours to spend most of the game in the opposition half, was left isolated. An overwhelming majority of their players - eight, to be precise - spent most of the game in our half.

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    Capped Player DannyInvincible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fixer82 View Post
    McGeady and Hoolahan injury doubts for tomorrow
    Thankfully, both trained today (according to Philip Quinn), so hopefully the problems aren't too serious. Losing Wes for such a big game would be bad, but losing both creative outlets would be disastrous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pineapple stu View Post
    Not sure what game you were watching?

    Two gilt-edged chances in the first half on these highlights, plus a disallowed goal (let's consider that not a chance as he was offside - but not by much). "Looking ominous already" and "Ireland pegged back in their own 18 yard box" are two phrases from first-half commentary too.

    We were dire in that first half in particular in terms of ball retention and ability to string 4+ passes together - very similar to last night and to Serbia. (And yeah, maybe to Holland too. Not that it stops McAteer and Long's goals being up there as my favourite Ireland goals)
    They didn't have a shot (on target) before ht and 2 chances in 45 minutes against our one isn't exactly being battered.
    In all, Germany effected little in that game considering their elevated status compared to our plodders.
    perhaps you consider a german chance blocked by a defender to be gilt edged but Walters ready to shoot into the net being blocked, was just good defending?
    Just because Ireland are playing particularly cráp now for a few games and O'Neill hasn't imposed himself to good effect, doesn't mean history can be revised in order to opine that O'Neill has always been crap and be cast into the same hole that Trap was consigned to, the lucky manager whenever something went right.
    Last edited by geysir; 04/09/2017 at 7:43 PM.

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    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
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    Sigh.

    So you were wrong on the shots matter to start off with. Those are two glorious chances (like I said) and really should have been scored. There were others too - Boateng missed with a free header from a corner early on, there was a decent penalty shout and Keogh got in an excellent block. We were blessed that night that the normally clinical Germans left their shooting boots at home.

    The commentary bits I quoted are also indicative of the way the game was going. From the Guardian's live commentary at the time, there's phrases like "This is extraordinarily one-sided", "Could this be one of the great 0-0 thrashings?" and "Ireland have the ball in Germany's half! Admittedly, Germany are down to ten men"

    We were really really poor for most of that game. First half in particular. There's no point being revisionist about it. (Arguably, it just made the goal sweeter)

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    Seasoned Pro Lionel Ritchie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeLorean View Post
    The goal in Austria was scored in the first minute of the second half.
    Touché. I'd misremembered it being later. I think my point stands though. Our instincts and temperament when in front leaves something to be desired -particlularly when we score early and thus haven't settled properly into a good pro-active mindset and tempo. Plain mad as it sounds and reads, it actually appears to adversely affect the gameplan.
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    http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/201...o-georgia.html

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    Seasoned Pro SwanVsDalton's Avatar
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    I have some thoughts but I'm saving em for Tuesday night's/Wednesday morning's 'O'Neill out/O'Neill must be out of genie wishes/O'Neill is an actual genie, we're going to Russia!' thread.

    Only thing on my mind right now as the biggest indictment of O'Neill is the complete lack of a system or tactical plan. Hey, many may have hated on Trapattoni but at least we knew how we were going to play and, generally speaking, it made certain logical sense even if it was complete brock.

    This team though - what are they? O'Neill really is one of the least proactive managers going, it's just pure reactive, on-the-day to whatever's going on man-management to try and get us over the line. I mean what was going on with that team in the last 20 minutes against Georgia? Brady and McClean in the middle, wingers everywhere, three strikers. The fact it nearly worked (in a way) is weirdly depressing.

    Meanwhile, in Belfast, team with a tactical clue cruises into the play-offs with an easy win when they only needed a point...
    Ou-est le Centre George Pompidou?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DannyInvincible View Post
    Thankfully, both trained today (according to Philip Quinn), so hopefully the problems aren't too serious. Losing Wes for such a big game would be bad, but losing both creative outlets would be disastrous.
    Makes you wonder Danny, doesn't it, why or how we 'lost' them last Saturday?
    Did they get lost on the street and couldn't find their way to the game (McGeady showing up an hour late) or did the manager lose sight of them on the bench?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker1982 View Post
    I expect a reaction tomorrow evening. Hopefully 2/3 of changes can get us over the line.

    I'd go for

    Randolph

    Christie Clark Duffy Brady
    Meyler Arter
    McGeady Hoolahan McClean
    Long

    Long/Walters is borderline. I don't think MO'N will drop Walters. If he has to play it should be up top.
    Ok, that's the team. But what's the game plan and the tactics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter View Post
    The whole "The result is all that matters" chestnut is always dangerous thinking, as it allows you to justify bad performances and wave away regression, until the lucky wins and hard-fought draws suddenly become thumpings. And, as has been pointed out, Ireland under O'Neill have played much better than this, with a very similar squad of players. What's changed? Why did we deliberately go into the Georgian game with a mindset of surrendering possession? I was half-thinking O'Neill is trying to pull a Mourinho, but I don't think Ireland are quite good enough for that sort of approach.
    Precisely. When you have a mindset of "the result is all that matters" it is ok because it is stating the obvious and nobody can criticize you for that. But it's a kop out. Questions need to be answered about the 'conspiracy' which was Ireland's performance in Georgia. How can any team knowingly and willingly hand possession back to another team with such regularity? It just doesn't make sense and anyone who tries to justify it needs to see a shrink. Had Conor McGregor stood there last week, from the opening bell, and invited Mayweather to hit him on the chin as many times as he could, we'd have all asked for our money back. But yet some on here are trying to justify exactly that from the football team. Sixty-four thousand dollar question - did O'Neill tell them to do that beforehand, or did the players just say to themselves: "To hell with the manager's instructions to play a passing game, we're just going to hoof it long and take the night off"

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    Coach tetsujin1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shakermaker1982 View Post
    The most frustrating aspect is that we know the squad can play football. We've seen it during the last campaign and the Euro's.

    I eventually became a massive critic of the Trap towards the last 18 months of his reign because of the style of football and if what was served up the other night continued I'd start to question the manager. I'm hoping MO'N will correct this - I think we miss Hendrick because he is a ball player so it's a shame he is injured.

    The players that dictate the style of play are your central midfield players. If they don't take responsibility then you are left with your less comfortable/technical players (the back 4) making decisions under pressure (which they don't want unless they are Pique) resulting in the inevitable hoof. Watch Glenn Whelan. He is terrible for it. He'll point to the centre back to play it back rather than move into a position to receive the ball. It drives me crazy. Arter was woeful as well but he hasn't had 80+ caps of doing the same old ***** I must be banging on about this for the last 4 years now but I think the Georgia game will be the last straw.

    Playing Walters also seems to send out a massive flashing beacon to our players to hoof the ball out wide because he'll compete well. However it's a 50/50 ball.....

    We need to be brave. I don't expect Guardiola style pass and move overnight. I'm happy with us just trying to mix it up a bit. Back the technical guys like Hoolahan. He does make us play better. That cannot be disputed.
    You are spot on - 110% correct with everything you say on here shaker. Whelan has absolutely no creativity about him (I will say no more because I've spent ten years criticizing him and what the hell do I know). And Walters, you are right about John. If he's in the team not only does it send a message to our players but to the opposition also. The ball will be played long and big John will compete. So just take a couple of steps back (if you're a defender) and the ball will eventually come your way. Love the guy, but that style of play is as old as the hills. Brady, McClean and McGeady should be given license to run through the middle at the Serbs tomorrow night.

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    International Prospect tricky_colour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbyrne View Post
    id say hoolahan didn't start as he was being kept fresh for tomorrow. mcgeady looked lively when he came on

    That is a good point if we could choose which game to get a result in it would be this one. McGeady did miss a late chance, albeit a difficult one.

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