Republic of Ireland V Serbia - Tuesday 5th September 2017 - World Cup 2018 Qualifier

[DannyInvincible]

Turkish ref Cuneyt Cakir, who the Irish Sun regard as "Ireland's bogey referee", is to referee the game against Serbia on Tuesday night: https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...r-serbia-game/

At Euro 2012, he sent off Keith Andrews in the defeat by Italy while he dismissed John O’Shea in the 2015 qualifier loss in Poland, having earlier awarded Ireland a spot-kick.

The last occasion Cakir officiated an Ireland game was at last year’s Euro finals against Belgium.

Just before the Belgians’ opening goal, he inexplicably failed to award a penalty when Long was felled by a combination of a kick in the head from Toby Alderweireld and a kick in the hip from Thomas Vermaelen. Ireland lost 3-0.

[DannyInvincible]

I thought O'Neill handled Tony well and managed not to shove that monster mike down Tony's throat. Tony is yet another advocate of the leading question which he throws out with schoolboy gusto. Instead of asking how Martin felt about the all the long balls played and was it part of the game plan, he spurts out "You can't be happy with all the long balls?"
Then Tony asks (in crisis mode) "Is there a quick fix?"
is there a quick fix?? If Tony was the tv news reporter on the economy, the currency has collapsed, is there a quick fix ask Tony?

Tony does have form and I thought some of his interviews with Trap were bang out-of-line, but (for possibly the first time I can remember) I actually felt it was O'Neill who was the needlessly arsey one who was lacking in humility last night. If O'Neill didn't see the point in answering a simple question after being asked to account for why we'd played so badly - something for which all supporters and observers would have liked to hear an explanation, especially considering O'Neill claimed he had an explanation but just didn't want to enlighten us - why did he even do the interview in the first place?

And if he thought he could get away with evasion and deflection after such an inexcusable showing, I fear he misjudged the public's mood and tolerance for bull when they sense it. I'd say that interview (combined with the team's performance) turned a lot of sympathisers off him. Their patience will only grow thinner if he doesn't deliver a positive response on Tuesday night.

[NeverFeltBetter]

They're contractually mandated to do the interviews aren't they? Which doesn't help at all, if you're in a sour mood after dropping points. Frankly though, I have little sympathy for O'Donoghue, who has a habit of needling interviewees in the way he asks questions, looking for a "Gotcha" moment. You can't ask your questions in that way and then be outraged when the response is tetchy.

Some of the rhetoric thrown around in the last day has been depressingly similar to that said about our last manager, from both those criticizing O'Neill and those defending him. We're in real circa late 2012/2013 territory again, and another bad showing against Serbia is going to seriously tip people against him. Hopefully wiithout a similar score-line, it could be a real Germany at home situation.

[shakermaker1982]

I expect a reaction tomorrow evening. Hopefully 2/3 of changes can get us over the line.

I'd go for

Randolph

Christie Clark Duffy Brady
Meyler Arter
McGeady Hoolahan McClean
Long

Long/Walters is borderline. I don't think MO'N will drop Walters. If he has to play it should be up top.

[jbyrne]

I expect a reaction tomorrow evening. Hopefully 2/3 of changes can get us over the line.

I'd go for

Randolph

Christie Clark Duffy Brady
Meyler Arter
McGeady Hoolahan McClean
Long

Long/Walters is borderline. I don't think MO'N will drop Walters. If he has to play it should be up top.

I wouldn't start Long. He is much more effective coming on later as the oppositions defence tires. When needs must O'Neill seems to pick Murphy so I fully expect to see him start tomorrow. I also expect to see Hendrick start ahead of meyler, if hendrick is fit. I too expect a big response from the team and I really hope the crowd get behind the team like never before (remember the response by the crowd v czech republic a few days after the Cyprus away fiasco??). for chr**ts sake its a wc qualifier against our biggest rivals for top spot.... if I turn up to hear a planted piped brass band and a slow rendition of Amhrán na bhFiann played by john delaneys favourite bagpipe band i'll be livid!!

[OwlsFan]

Anyone who expected a different performance from Ireland away to Georgia hasn't seen or taken in our last visits there where we have been dominated possession wise and been blessed to come away with 3 points. Now, to be fair the possession stats were even worse on this occasion and we didn't play well at all but we should have won the game. 6 shots on target for us and 2 for them. Possession is only worthwhile if it creates and scores goal. Otherwise, other than making people like Mark1234, who advocates a boycott or walk-out of the game on Tuesday !!, it is meaningless. I thought we defended very well for a team which couldn't keep the ball. I also saw this Georgian team outplay Wales in Cardiff for much of the game there. They are not a Liechtenstein or a Malta. They are great at keeping possession but their end product is their problem.

One of the problems was too many of our players didn't perform even if our tactic was the long ball. Walters was anonymous. Arter couldn't keep the ball and possibly had the worst game of all the players.

Despite it all, and the 2 points dropped, we are still second in the group. However, we must beat Serbia on Tuesday otherwise I am not sure that our second place, if gained, would be good enough to qualify for the play offs. If we beat Serbia, and all the rest of the games going to form, I expect us to be leading the group going in to the last game with Serbia a point behind and Wales 2 - pretty much meaning we have to win in Wales as well to win the group. Tall order to beat both Serbia and Wales but to win groups, this is what you have to do.

Park that performance and move on to the next game. That's football.

Martin O'Neil's Ireland are horribly unwatchable. It's like torture watching his side play.

Yes, it was horrible seeing "O'Neill's Ireland" beat Germany at home, Austria away and Italy at a tournament. Just horrible. Absolute torture.

[backstothewall]

"They were never going to throw enough men forward to leave themselves vulnerable to that (a counter attack)." I don't know what you mean by this? They were camped in our half for most of the first half. Had we an outlet ball to McGeady and another crafty winger like Horgan then we would have presented them problems. I agree hundred per cent with you about playing Hoolahan, I think everyone agrees with that sentiment. But the question we must ask ourselves is - if MON had no intention of playing Wes, why did he subject him to two long flights in the space of three days?

What I mean by this is that despite dominating possession of the ball Georgia weren't taking risks at the back. We were teying to hold onto the lead and defending very deep which gave them space and time to knock the ball about in front of us. They were doing that but were keeping their shape. They weren't throwing full backs forward and their midfield weren't getting ahead of rhe ball and making runs in behind our defence.

With 6 or 7 men behind the ball they just weren't vulnerable to the counterattack. They had worked out the danger McClean and Long pose on the break and weren't going to fall for it.

[Real ale Madrid]

I can understand the long ball mentality ( don't agree mind but I understand ) - if you are going to play direct - at least play 4-4-2 with a few strikers and wingers in advanced positions. Why flood the midfield with the likes of Brady and Arter if you are going to Lump it over their heads ( Brady needs to play full back as well ) .

It was hard for me to understand how deep we sat as well - we basically defended 5/10 yards outside our own box against the team ranked 110 in the world. The only mitigating factor I can think of for that is the heat.

We are going to get some hiding on Tuesday and an even bigger one in Wales next month. It looks like we are going to have to go over there and chase a win which is the absolute last position we want to be in. I fear two defeats similar in fashion to Belgium at the Euros - our lack of self belief kicking back in.

[zero]

i can't understand how we have seemingly regressed so much from the euros (and the bosnia playoff before that). this was evident straight away in serbia.

i thought we were cohehsive and well organised in france and would kick on from that, but it hasn't been the case. i also strongly believe that o'neill will consider a draw tomorrow to be a good result...

[Stuttgart88]

Agree with all of wise Owl's post but the link between "unwatchable" football and underperformance is strong. They can't be seen as separate to each other.

[NeverFeltBetter]

The whole "The result is all that matters" chestnut is always dangerous thinking, as it allows you to justify bad performances and wave away regression, until the lucky wins and hard-fought draws suddenly become thumpings. And, as has been pointed out, Ireland under O'Neill have played much better than this, with a very similar squad of players. What's changed? Why did we deliberately go into the Georgian game with a mindset of surrendering possession? I was half-thinking O'Neill is trying to pull a Mourinho, but I don't think Ireland are quite good enough for that sort of approach.

[Lionel Ritchie]

The Bosnia game was probably the exception that defines the rule -and the issue. There appears to be a systematic problem in this sqaud with controling a game/not hanging on with our fingernails from the vantage of being in front -and particularly after going in front early. Bosnia is the only game against anyway notable opposition in the 'MON era' where we scored first then kicked on, scored another and closed the game out.
We lost leads in Georgia and Serbia in this competition, France and Sweden at the finals last year and Bosnia and Scotland in the qualifying.

The hugely significant wins, and there have been hugely significant wins and performances, Germany, Italy, Austria -involved goals scored well into the second half.

[zero]

hendrick ruled out of tomorrow's game.

[DeLorean]

The hugely significant wins, and there have been hugely significant wins and performances, Germany, Italy, Austria -involved goals scored well into the second half.

The goal in Austria was scored in the first minute of the second half.

hendrick ruled out of tomorrow's game.

Balls. He'd have been a big help I feel.

[pineapple stu]

Yes, it was horrible seeing "O'Neill's Ireland" beat Germany at home, Austria away and Italy at a tournament. Just horrible. Absolute torture.

Your point in general is valid, especially with regards Austria and Italy, but the win over Germany was pure drivel for 70 minutes until Long scored.

I remember us being overrun in the first half - the Germans missed three or four glorious chances; effectively open goals at that level - and we could barely string two passes together.

I think we played well once we scored, but by and large, that match was well up there in the ineptitude stakes performance-wise.

[geysir]

Your point in general is valid, especially with regards Austria and Italy, but the win over Germany was pure drivel for 70 minutes until Long scored.

I remember us being overrun in the first half - the Germans missed three or four glorious chances; effectively open goals at that level - and we could barely string two passes together.

I think we played well once we scored, but by and large, that match was well up there in the ineptitude stakes performance-wise.

The Germans only had 3 or 4 glorious chances and probably two or three of those came near the end
They didn't have a shot before ht. We had to blood our reserve goalie as an emergency sub in such a drama game and we had a good second half where we did very well.
This victory was a credit to the team and the management, all under extreme pressure and the crowd had a howl of a time.
It was easier than and just as deserved a victory as v Netherlands in 2001.

[Straightstory]

Your point in general is valid, especially with regards Austria and Italy, but the win over Germany was pure drivel for 70 minutes until Long scored. I think we played well once we scored, but by and large, that match was well up there in the ineptitude stakes performance-wise.

Don't forget we beat what was basically Italy's reserve team. We wouldn't have had a hope in hell if they hadn't already qualified and were in the position of needing some points from the game.
O'Neill has been incredibly lucky so far (as was Trapattoni).
It's been torture watching Ireland play since these two were in charge.

[tetsujin1979]

Don't forget we made a number of changes for that game ourselves, including giving Shane Duffy his first competitive game and dropping the captain

[jbyrne]

Don't forget we beat what was basically Italy's reserve team. We wouldn't have had a hope in hell if they hadn't already qualified and were in the position of needing some points from the game.
O'Neill has been incredibly lucky so far (as was Trapattoni).
It's been torture watching Ireland play since these two were in charge.

never mind our reserves, I would love first teamers who played for the likes of juve, psg, roma and milan like the Italians had that night! id say Conte sent his team out with every intention of winning that game.

basically any time we take a big scalp there's no shortage of irish people ready to provide excuses for the opposition we have just beaten. id say we do it better than most.

for years we had beaten no one ranked ahead of us in competitive matches yet already under MON we have beaten Italy, Germany, Bosnia and Austria. I am sure you will come up with excuses for the opposition for each of those wins but in the real world MON cant have been that lucky.

"“I'm a greater believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it”
― Thomas Jefferson

[backstothewall]

Not to mention all that luck he enjoyed winning all those trophies with Celtic. Or with Leicester. Or the luck he had taking Villa into Europe.