Allardyce, Sam
Bilic, Slaven
Bruce, Steve
Carsley, Lee
Clement, Paul
Coleman, Chris
Cook, Paul
Goran-Eriksson, Sven
Grayson, Simon
Hughton, Chris
Keane, Robbie
Keane, Roy
Kenny, Stephen
Kerr, Brian
Lennon, Neil
McCarthy, Mick
Moyes, David
Queiroz, Carlos
Redknapp, Harry
Wenger, Arsene
Martin Jol maybe?Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
I reckon we will get a win against Serbia tomorrow and this whole thread will be null & void
Bring Back Belfast Celtic F.C.
He's the first name that came to mind. He's been unemployed since his Fulham days AFAIK.
If it were to happen, we could see Robbie Keane join the backroom team in some form. I don't know what their relationship was like at Spurs.
I'm starting to think we'll win too, but that hope will be cruelly crushed tomorrow when the starting XI is named at 6.30 with Glenn Whelan included.
Last edited by IsMiseSean; 04/09/2017 at 12:07 PM.
Surely Eamonn Dumby has to be given a shot.........
You're missing the obligatory Joe Kinnear link.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Fixed that for you.But if the firing squad is coached by MON, we'll be a long time waiting for someone to hit the target!
Hello, hello? What's going on? What's all this shouting, we'll have no trouble here!
- E Tattsyrup.
We can't talk about a new Ireland manager without the great Philippe Troussier being mentioned.
The point or difference is that Dundalk were expected to lose all four of those games yet they were seriously competitive in all of them. The results were all very tight - 2-1 losses and a 1-1 draw - and Dundalk had their chances too. Paddy McEleney's delicate chip clipping the cross-bar in Russia springs to mind. The Zenit manager, Mircea Lucescu, actually praised Dundalk as the best footballing side they'd encountered in their Europa League group last season. Zenit were on the budget of a Champions League team and possessed genuinely world-class players (Axel Witsel, for example), whilst Rosenborg were the seeded side and we all know their European pedigree.
It's also worth nothing that the goals Dundalk conceded in each of those games were generally down to frustrating/soul-destroying individual errors, lapses in concentration or poor defending from individuals at set-pieces rather than as a result of the system being exposed. Dundalk defended with composure otherwise and were never cut open due to any lack of cohesion or poor organisation. Indeed, they were a header against the crossbar away from knocking Rosenborg out and it took a goal for Rosenborg in extra-time of the second leg to eventually pull them through.
Besides, Dundalk have managed very impressive results against other perceived superior opposition on much higher budgets too, such as BATE, Legia, Maccabi Tel-Aviv and AZ by playing attractive passing football on the ground. They wouldn't have achieved those results and come so close to qualifying for the Champions League or then qualifying from their Europa League group (they were a result away from progressing going into the final round of games) had they gone out and sat back, tried to soak up pressure and hoofed the ball forward for 90 minutes each game.
Ireland, on the other hand, should be beating or at least dominating a team ranked 112th by FIFA and 93rd in the Elo rating system. Our players play at a much higher level than Georgia's do and we've got greater strength in depth. We didn't get the result we wanted on Saturday through playing conservative hoofball anyway, so you can't even defend our overly cautious approach on the basis of the final outcome (which was undesirable and is the basis on which you've dismissed as deficient the way Dundalk played against Zenit and Rosenborg). You could maybe defend playing the way we played last Saturday if we wanted to play for a draw and keep things tight against an elite side, but there's absolutely no justification for sending a team out to play that way against lowly Georgia, even if it is away from home. We actually didn't even press them when they were in possession. The "teeny nation punching above our weight" rallying cry simply doesn't apply when the opposition is Georgia.
You can say qualification is ultimately more important than the performance - I'm inclined to agree with such a sentiment - but three points from our last three games and the manner in which we "won" those three points simply isn't qualification form anyway. We're in trouble now if we don't win tomorrow night and the likelihood of us winning is slim. Kolarov and Matić, who didn't play against us in Belgrade, will line out against us tomorrow night and Serbia's form has been on the up as the group as progressed. Our form trajectory has been heading in the other direction.
The "hysteria" - or valid concern, to be more accurate - isn't simply as a consequence of the 1-1 draw in Georgia. I think the performances in general this campaign have been gradually chipping away at people's faith in the management team and, for many, Saturday came close to a sort of "straw that broke the camel's back" moment. If we're similarly uninspiring and tepid on Tuesday (and we're further subjected to a similarly evasive and intelligence-insulting post-match interview performance by O'Neill like the one we saw after Saturday's game), that may well prove the final straw for many.
And surely there's a direct connection between better performances and winning more points. The better you consistently perform, the greater chance you give yourself of winning more points. It's not as if it is a case of having to choose between one or the other or as if the two possibilities exist in isolation of one another.
As for putting out best performances in at the final tournament, that's not much use if we don't qualify (which is rare besides). And sure weren't our performances (and results) - playing drab, conservative football, I might add - at Euro 2012 utterly atrocious? We were the worst team in terms of both performances and results at the tournament.
If we win tomorrow, it'll be fantastic and will bring us right back into contention. I'll be delighted, but I'm afraid the evidence of prior form hasn't inspired me with much to feel confident about. Even today, O'Neill was playing down our abilities again in his press conference, talking about how "inferior" we supposedly are and how his players are "not the most talented" group of players ever to play for Ireland. He evidently doesn't trust his player's abilities. How will the players feel about his lowly opinion of them and the fact he felt the need to express such an opinion publicly (in order, I suspect, to pre-emptively protect his own reputation in the event of another poor performance and result)? I'm sure such words don't inspire them with a huge deal of confidence either.
O'Neill also made the following comment earlier, which I felt was revealing: "We’re going to try and win the [Serbia] game and if we can’t win the game we are going to try and get something out of the game." Unfortunately, I think he might have let the actual game-plan slip there... He doesn't truly believe we can win if he's conceding the possibility of settling for a draw; a win should be the only outcome on his mind right now, but he's clearly already entertaining the winning of a mere point. It's depressing. I know that winning three points would be the only thing on Stephen Kenny's mind right now if he was in charge.
We're all enthusiastically expecting a big reaction to the embarrassment of Saturday night, but such optimism is based more on blind hope than evidence; judging by O'Neill's words, it's going to be more of the same dreaded overly-cautious bile tomorrow night.
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 04/09/2017 at 8:26 PM.
On the Rosenborg point, remember they were eliminated by Celtic in Norway. It'll be interesting to see how they do in the Europa League. Also, Kenny was relegated from the Scottish Premier League in his only real test outside the League of Ireland. I know it was ten years ago, but IMO that (along with Roddy Collins at Carlisle) held back any other club taking a chance on a League of Ireland manager.
I'm' tired of reading the same arguments over and over when it comes to new managers
- We should appoint a League of Ireland manager, he won't ignore the league. Which ignores that Brian Kerr played Jason Byrne for about 2 minutes at the end of a friendly
- We need a manager that can connect with the players. Which ignores Steve Staunton was a former teammate of half the squad, it didn't work
- We need a manager that speaks the same language as the players. Which ignores that only one manager was ever appointed that didn't have English as a first language. He qualified us for a tournament for the first time in a decade
- We need a strict disciplinarian. Which ignores that Trapattoni dismissed players from the squad for breaking his curfew
- We need a manager that understands the Irish mentality. Which is every Irish manager, except one.
Find new arguments
Sam Allardyce would be my choice. Knows the English leagues inside out, wouldn't have a problem convincing lads to come on board, suits our footballing style, had a spell here already at the beginning of his career and has a 100% record as an International manager.
"We lost because we didn't win"- Ronaldo
The multi-talented Roddy Doyle
Kenny isn't anywhere near the Ireland job, and rightly so.
What he did in Europe with Dundalk was groundbreaking, but if somebody who had the equivalent achievement elsewhere (domination of a similar-level league and 4 points in a Europa League group) was being mentioned, people would be far from overwhelmed. What he has done with Dundalk would probably have got him an English job now if he hadn't already done so poorly in Scotland. He may still get a job there anyway.
What's Terry Venables up to these days?
Why exactly do you feel Kenny isn't near the job besides the fact people might find such an appointment underwhelming? Is it to do with the Dunfermline blot on his CV or some other issue(s)?
Michael O'Neill got the NI job off the back of his domestic and European achievements with Shamrock Rovers and that's been a stunning success for the IFA. Prior to Rovers, he'd managed Brechin City in the Scottish second division. Would you regard Michael O'Neill as being up to the Ireland job?
For me, it's that he's still unproven at the top level. Six games in the Europa League isn't proof, but I will concede it's a start. The Irish FA chose O'Neill almost by default, nobody else wanted the job, the FA couldn't afford anyone with a higher profile, and it worked out better than anyone could have hoped.
I would agree with Tets that while Michael O'Neill has done an excellent job, but he like Kenny is unproven at the top level. The suits too are still scarred from their appointment of Kerr and Staunton and will look for an experienced pair of hands.
Back to reality. I think it is a bit ridiculous to compare LOI game style with that of international football. Should we compare the Championship with the English International team or how Inverness play with the Scottish International team? They are two different and unique beasts. Domestic teams can develop game styles on a regular basis and managers can buy players to suit. International football is completely different. No control over depth, make up or quality of players. Different levels of football as well. The Europa League is not the same standard as international football. One small mistake in international football can undo two years of work, hence the absolute need to minimise any mistakes
Danny mentioned Irish players earlier on this thread who are good passers of the ball and I would wholeheartedly agree with his list. But this is missing the real coaching issue. It is not these players that worry coaches from a game style viewpoint. It is the ones who can't pass the ball under pressure who determine a team's style. And O'Neill and Keane are acutely aware of this, just like Trappatoni before them. We don't have enough quality in the squad to take risks. We also lack real on field leaders and a player with the x factor like Bale. The coaches are working to the team's strengths. Their job is to get us to a World Cup. They are doing this job quite effectively. They are meeting the brief from the FAI. In saying all of this, our style of play is boring and I hate how we play, but in a result driven game, it is hard to argue with our campaign so far.
Richie Sadlier writing in a weekend newspaper, commented on our age profile, our increasing reliance on English born players and the lack of youth development in Ireland. Our continued present success on the field is masking this issue, and bizarrely I feel we might actually need to fail over a period of time to ultimately see these issues tackled and a solid future plan developed to enable ongoing success.
If we're talking about things falling apart in the coming weeks, which hopefully they won't, you'd have to say Chris Hughton is the obvious choice. As an alternative, how about Howe? Eddie, that is, who has managed to take a team of limited resources right up the league ladder to The Premier League and, very relevantly from an Irish point of view, took on an underage international who had dropped into non-league football and took him all the way up with the club and on to a burgeoning international career with us
A manager that can actually coach?
Michael O Neill was a risky appointment that worked out incredibly well. I'd regard him as being up to the Ireland job now, definitely, as he has proven his ability to get the very best out of a limited squad in international football.
Kenny would also be a risky appointment that might work out very well, but might also work out very badly. I don't see the need to take that risk with the kind of money we are currently able to offer a management team. For that money, I don't want the Irish manager's job to go to anybody who is unproven beyond LOI or leagues of similar standard (and to a slight extent, Europe).
Last edited by osarusan; 05/09/2017 at 9:22 AM.
If Kenny was appointed, and he wasn't a success, then it would be a massive blow to the league and pretty difficult for any manager to put himself forward for the national side
Lets just steal Michael O'Neill, it would be worth it just to see teh head on the Nordies
What have we to lose on Kenny? ... It could not be much worst that watching the rubbish that was Saturday night! ... His team in fairest try to play the ball on the ground ie football! ... If it dies not work out, then fine but at least give him a chance! Playing big money for a manager doesn't always work out either!
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