Bray statement

[Dove]

Very true .
If any genuine Bray fans want to keep their club, they need to get organised now.
These people have no interest in the club you love, and will happily watch your club die, to line their greasy pockets.
No-one can do it for you, you need to do it yourselves

1- The supporters need a focal point to set up a Trust or Supporters Group.
This lady that was fired by the Gruff Brothers Denis and Martin.
She seems to have steel to take them on and stand up to them in the first place.
Has anyone thought of asking Jillian Godsil if she would be interested?

2- As many have pointed out, these lunatics do not own the ground.
If it is public land, then an open EU tender process must take place.

3 -These lunatics have a great track record. Gruff Brother Denis tried the same with Doncaster Rovers, and Mulvey the same idea with Pat's before they chased him.

4- Where does Philip Hannigan stand in all this, local businessman, ex chairman?
Is he fully on board with Gruff Brothers and Mulvey scheme?

5- WCC -BTC need to come out and make a STRONG and CLEAR statement that the Ground is NOT up for apartments, and will remain as a sporting facility. SIMPLE.

6- A strong supporters body-Trust is badly needed, and from that to work with WCC-BTC to formulate a proper business plan, perhaps chaired by a retired Judge, looking at the German Football ownership model. This should include the needs for an upgraded Carlisle Grounds, and a separate football academy.

[pineapple stu]

Moving the club out of the town will not improve attendances. Look at the situations in Wexford and Longford. Improvements may be required but moving from their current location would be foolish.

Attendances is one factor, but it's only one factor.

Most LoI clubs are businesses that are open 20 days a year. That's an appalling business model.

With the space they have, they should be looking to increase non-matchday revenues - and many ground moves in England have been for this reason, for example. (And others have been for land-grabbing reasons, of course)

In theory, an out-of-town ground with various amenities attached - retail, leisure, etc - could be a bigger community focal point than a central ground with no room for expansion. I don't think Wexford or Longford have any such amenities.

This is all in theory of course. But the basic point is that the idea of "The ground is easy for me to get to, therefore it's the best location for it" is dangerously out-dated in this day and age.

[pineapple stu]

1- The supporters need a focal point to set up a Trust or Supporters Group.
This lady that was fired by the Gruff Brothers Denis and Martin.
She seems to have steel to take them on and stand up to them in the first place.
Has anyone thought of asking Jillian Godsil if she would be interested?

Don't take this the wrong way - but your whole post is about wondering if someone else will do the work. All while nobody does it.

Why don't you start something?

Posting on the internet will achieve nothing.

[passinginterest]

Wasn't there a nice looking plan for redevelopment at one stage that combined commercial units and some apartments at the bowling alley end of the ground? The whole situation seems beyond parody at this stage. My very first league of Ireland games were in the Carlisle grounds and it would be very sad to see the club killed off by this.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Been a few years since I was at the Carlisle, but didn't seem that bad then. Has it deteriorated a lot in the last couple of seasons?

I suppose we were in Jackman at the time, which might have affected my perception.

[Dove]

Don't take this the wrong way - but your whole post is about wondering if someone else will do the work. All while nobody does it.

Why don't you start something?

Posting on the internet will achieve nothing.

Fully agree with your sentiments.
I am not passing the buck, but merely putting it out there for a focal point/leader person.
I have plenty of ideas, that will contribute to such a plan, which I will gladly share.
I put forward this lady as it seems she seems to love the club, has a recent connection, and is a fresh face in all this.
Any person that can take on the person Judge Moriarity accused of misleading a major Tribunal has guts.

[pineapple stu]

But you are passing the buck I think. "I'm merely putting it out there for a focal point/leader person" is more or less the definition of passing the buck. And you've not "put forward this lady"; you've just posted on an internet site.

[Mr A]

I have a vague idea that there was a plan at one stage for housing to be built and the stadium to be on top of it. I may have dreamt that. I can't tell what's real any more with Bray.

[El-Pietro]

Attendances is one factor, but it's only one factor.

Most LoI clubs are businesses that are open 20 days a year. That's an appalling business model.

With the space they have, they should be looking to increase non-matchday revenues - and many ground moves in England have been for this reason, for example. (And others have been for land-grabbing reasons, of course)

In theory, an out-of-town ground with various amenities attached - retail, leisure, etc - could be a bigger community focal point than a central ground with no room for expansion. I don't think Wexford or Longford have any such amenities.

This is all in theory of course. But the basic point is that the idea of "The ground is easy for me to get to, therefore it's the best location for it" is dangerously out-dated in this day and age.

I live in Cork. Its not easy for me to get to - but it is easy for kids to get to. Thats important. Stick a ground out in the arse end of nowhere and what support they do have will dwindle.
The model you refer to makes sense if the club is doing well enough to begin with and has a large core support and can survive the drop off in support such a move might entail, or even better, have such a strong tie to their fanbase that with proper transport links they won't lose fans at all.

[Mr A]

Happy to say there are a few people at Bray looking to get the Supporters Club up and running again and to get people organised.

[pineapple stu]

I live in Cork. Its not easy for me to get to - but it is easy for kids to get to. Thats important. Stick a ground out in the arse end of nowhere and what support they do have will dwindle.
The model you refer to makes sense if the club is doing well enough to begin with and has a large core support and can survive the drop off in support such a move might entail, or even better, have such a strong tie to their fanbase that with proper transport links they won't lose fans at all.

And that's a valid point. Though an out-of-town ground that is regularly visited for reasons other than Bray Wanderers matches could generate far more community focus than the Carlisle. (And I think that would separate it from Wexford or Longford's grounds)

Again, all in theory. All I'm saying is that "The ground is central, therefore it's the best-located in the league" is far too simplistic.

I have a vague idea that there was a plan at one stage for housing to be built and the stadium to be on top of it. I may have dreamt that. I can't tell what's real any more with Bray.

Would this be what you're thinking of? Going back to 2002; just found it by googling.

I've a vague notion John Deering was also looking to redevelop the grounds a few years back as well; I think he mentioned it in some interview around the time he went into the CRO and illegally appointed himself director. But as you say, the stories can kind of merge into one after a while.

[passinginterest]

I think this is what I was thinking of: http://www.braywanderers.com/news-article.php?id=1999
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/...-27630911.html

[EatYerGreens]

Happy to say there are a few people at Bray looking to get the Supporters Club up and running again and to get people organised.

Good news. Though it will take more than just a Supporters Club.

Events like this continue to prove the veracity of the adage that by the time fans realise they need a Supporters Trust, it's usually too late. Hence why fans should look at having one even at clubs where there are no issues currently. The health of LOI clubs can change quicker than the Irish weather.

[Martinho II]

Moving the club out of the town will not improve attendances. Look at the situations in Wexford and Longford. Improvements may be required but moving from their current location would be foolish.

To be honest even when we were in abbeycartron our crowds were the same. Longford has never been a town for league of Ireland soccer and will never will be.

[Longfordian]

Looking at it objectively, Longford is too small a town to sustain a LOI club without a backer. Even if the whole county was supportive it'd be a struggle given the population. I'm glad we have the opportunity of supporting a LOI team but if the decision were to be made to move up from LSL now you'd say it was madness.

[mcgonigle]

Looking at it objectively, Longford is too small a town to sustain a LOI club without a backer. Even if the whole county was supportive it'd be a struggle given the population. I'm glad we have the opportunity of supporting a LOI team but if the decision were to be made to move up from LSL now you'd say it was madness.

If every person in the country who supports a foreign team followed their closest LOI side then we'd have a pretty well supported league

[nigel-harps1954]

Looking at it objectively, Longford is too small a town to sustain a LOI club without a backer. Even if the whole county was supportive it'd be a struggle given the population. I'm glad we have the opportunity of supporting a LOI team but if the decision were to be made to move up from LSL now you'd say it was madness.

There's less than half the people in Ballybofey than there is in Longford.

Longford should be looking at attracting support from as far as Carrick-on-Shannon and Roscommon, and even to a lesser extent Mullingar. All are within a half an hour drive of the town.

[Longfordian]

There's less than half the people in Ballybofey than there is in Longford.

Longford should be looking at attracting support from as far as Carrick-on-Shannon and Roscommon, and even to a lesser extent Mullingar. All are within a half an hour drive of the town.

True but Donegal as a county has a massive population. In fairness I'll row back a little and say that when we were doing well we did get some support from surrounding areas like Cavan, Leitrim, Roscommon, parts of Westmeath but not enough to make the club viable at Premier Division level without significant sponsors/donors. The figures will be on here for the last 15 years or whatever (Jesus I've been on here that long!) but apart from our first year or two in the Premier in the early '00s we only averaged maybe 700/800 even when we won things.

[Mr A]

I wonder how many of the clubs that wouldn't be viable without a backer would be viable if so many other clubs didn't have backers.

[pineapple stu]

There is a base cost involved in running a club in fairness. Would 300k be fair assuming all amateur players? Under 15 and under 13 leagues adding extra cost of course; you could be talking 70-100k just to run underage setup now when you allow insurance, travel, rent of training facilities and kit for four teams.

That's 30k people through the gates at a tenner a pop. Which in a 20-game season is 1500 average crowds.

For every 20k sponsorship you can get, take 100 off that crowd figure. And 20k is a nice sum. Most of the First Division clubs seem to have no shirt sponsors for example.

It's hard to see how a lot of clubs can survive without some sort of backer.