why should Whelan have to make up for another players shortcomings? over the last 10 years other Irish central midfielders have come and gone but Whelan has been the constant in a time that we qualified for two finals and came within a whisker of a third. he must be doing something right in such a pivotal position for us to have done so.Originally Posted by mark12345
he was without doubt one of our best performers in the first 60 mins yesterday.
when has it ever been any different for us?
Yes, but where did you get the idea that Liam's brief under Trap's regime included the option of choosing anything.
In the absence of any other carefully worked out plan for the team to contain and bring the game to Austria, fortunately the old 'get up and at them' approach worked like a charm, reducing the Austrians (fake Germans) to cowering wrecks.
We should have won that game without doing anything much different, maybe Duffy didn't need to lead with the outstretched arm in that 2 on 1 situation and Walters could have won the penalty, perhaps stumble and fall over in great dramatic steps, like a dying gunfighter in a Sam Peckinpah film vainly and desperately trying to ward off the inevitable fall to the ground.
It's surreal to observe Ireland still at the top of the table at the day's end, going gung-ho towards Russia 2018
Amazing the stick Whelan gets everywhere no matter what. Premier League regular for nearly 10 seasons and a regular under the last 2 managers but people think hes not got the ability. Plenty worse out on that pitch than him yesterday, Christie was absolutely dreadful.
he is the kevin kilbane of this particular Irish team. easy target for lazy criticism
Lazy criticism? Not really. It didn't just happen because of yesterday's performance. It has been formed over many frustrating years. And regarding Hendrick's poor performance yesterday, you are spot on, Whelan shouldn't have to make up for his shortcomings. But I didn't say he should. I'm saying if he was a better more influential midfielder, He could have covered Hendrick's lack of involvement. Bottom line is I refuse to accept rank mediocrity year in and year out. And when Whelan is gone, there are a few others I'll turn my attention to
Normally after an Ireland match when we're on the barstool, a few of the lads resort to the easy option if the result isn't what we need. They blame it on Whelan. Yesterday was the first time I've been able to relax and not have to defend Whelan when he's the brunt of the jokes by the boys.
'Rank mediocrity' what other Irish player would you put in there as a matter of interest? Some fans delusion with the quality of player we have available to us is unbelievable. You'd swear we have Sergio Busquets on the bench the way people go on.
A quote of yours from 2012. You have been banging this drum for 5 years now despite around 700 appearances between the two in the top flight. Selected on a regular basis by managers of renown at both club and international level. Do YOU not think therefore that YOU are missing something about these players but Whelan in particular. Ask yourself: why would Whelan be constantly be selected by whatever manager he plays for? Are they all myopic that they cannot see year in, year out, that he is useless and contributes nothing.
Whelan's job is NOT the play-maker or to go forward and score. His job is the defensive midfield role and that is what he is asked to do by his managers at club and country level. Full stop. I couldn't count the number of times he picked up the loose ball from Austrian clearances and played the simple ball out wise or inside. In that role, he cannot afford to lose possession. His tracking back is also excellent when the opposition is on the break. There is an excellent article about him here https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/is...football-49332
With respect, the problem is not with Whelan; it's you inability to see what he brings to the team. That said, his role is a negative one (although good defensive play is a positive attribute) and perhaps a "flair player" could perform that role as well. However, I am struggling to see one. You were a great fan of Stephen Ireland but where is he now ? James McCarthy has struggled to fulfill his potential as the attacking mid-fielder we thought he's be and Harry Arter is just making it in to the side. Whelan does what he is asked to do by his managers in a competent and unassuming way. They are obviously happy with that. Therefore, so am I.
Forget about the performance or entertainment. It's only the result that matters.
Murphy, Ward, Hendrick by the looks of things and Duffy pretty soon if all he can do is belt the ball long.
I stand by the quote from 2012. I'll also stand by my belief that had Hoolahan started yesterday we would be 2 points ahead of the group today. In fairness to Whelan, he had a bad co-worker in Hendrick yesterday (and if truth is told I did give Whelan some kudos for last week's performance) and he seems to be giving everything he's got which is admirable. But at the end of the day............
Oh good, so you're going to take action. What are you going to do about it?
That man makes a fine point chaps, he dropped Whelan at the finals and we evolved football wise thereafter. Yesterdays selection was back to the cave chaps, back to the cave quick. He played to contain, to not lose, now that has it's place and time but at home to a side we had beaten away on a day we could have put such pressure on every other side for every other minute of the qualifying campaign was neither time nor place.
Is there any footage of the Walters non-penalty? RTÉ highlights doesn't have it on the player. Interested to see it back.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
It was on the highlights show I thought. They analysed it after the game.
Yeah, it's discussed here at 33:50 - http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/eur...4200/10737531/
An accidental coming together I think and the goal was rightly disallowed too. Duffy was silly, he really didn't need to lean so blatantly with his arm.
We're still in the "Good chance to qualify" color. Whew.
https://i.redd.it/jhjkprwefs2z.png
https://twitter.com/we_global/status...765954?lang=en
Iran have gotten in. 65% chance on the above.
Last edited by KrisLetang; 12/06/2017 at 8:29 PM.
Says that Serbia have a better chance than we do
Hendrick wasn't Whelan's "co-worker" yesterday, Arter was.
I'm not and have never been Whelan's biggest fan but he is what he is. He did fine yesterday and better than most. I do think that we have the potential to be a better side without him though. I feel his presence reduces our energy levels and dynamism. A lot of our better performances have come in his absence.
Hendrick was stationed too far forward, he was ahead of the play most of the time and really struggled to get into the game. He was probably following instructions but maybe should have taken it upon himself to drop deeper and try to get into the match, as he did at the Euros even when Whelan & McCarthy were selected in the more orthodox midfield roles. The difference at the Euros was Hoolahan's presence to provide the support to Long.
With Hendrick and Brady both playing in unfamiliar roles it's little wonder we struggled, reverting Brady to left back has to be considered I think, as it would be unfair to drop McClean to accommodate him on the left wing, at the moment anyway. With the yellow card situation though, maybe Brady should sit out the Georgia match? The last thing we need is him missing the Serbia game with another suspension but obviously we need the points in Georgia too.
The game yesterday was a carbon copy of the Poland home fixture in the last campaign, with regards the timing of the goals, the general ebb and flow of the game and our unrecognisable improvement as we were chasing the game in the second half. Poland also had a good few players missing and it was seen very much as two points dropped, despite us levelling late on.
There was also a lot of complaining about the referee in the aftermath of that Poland game and a very similar incident to the disallowed Duffy goal. We came out the right side of it that night though as the referee didn't penalise Walters for toppling Fabianski in the lead up to the equaliser. I thought the referee yesterday was perfectly fine but haven't seen the game back yet.
We could have won with a different approach - no point in talking all week about taking the game to Austria with an ambition of winning the match and then leaving our most creative player on the bench. O'Neill's actions spoke louder than any of his words.
That said, as we were losing 1-0 with five minutes to go my overriding feeling is not 'two points dropped'... but 'absolute catastrophe averted'.
Last edited by DeLorean; 12/06/2017 at 9:27 PM.
So you could say their religion in is Shi'te but their qualification chances are somewhat better than that.
I would say so, we are about 7/4 to top the group Serbia about 6/4. One bookmaker has both 13/8 though.
Worst odds, 2-1 for us and 13/8 Serbia.
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