Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 147

Thread: National Underage Leagues and LOI underage

  1. #1
    Reserves
    Joined
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Meath man in Dublin
    Posts
    732
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    183
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    172
    Thanked in
    115 Posts

    National Underage Leagues and LOI underage

    Interesting article by Dave Henderson (Boh's chief scout, and former Aston Villa scout) in the Irish Times last week.

    He touches on many interesting points, and re-iterates how the national underage leagues have been a big success in transitioning power from the big DDSL clubs to the national underage teams. This is something I've heard a few times now but i'd like to know more on the specifics of that, like:

    Did the best kids move en masse from Kevins/Joeys/stella maris/Home Farm/Belvedere/Cherry Orchard to the national leagues when they started?
    Are the traditional big 6 struggling to recruit the best young players now, or are plenty of gifted kids still going there?
    If so, are they starting to struggle financially because their revenue source of selling teenagers to England has started to decline?
    Have the big 6 lost any of their staff (coaches/scouts/administrators etc) to the national league teams?
    Would the likes of Rovers/Bohs/Pats/Cork u17 teams now be much better than Belvedere or Kevins?


    I know Kevins have made a lot of noise in the last year with newspaper articles and the PrimeTime episode, but the other 5 don't sem to have made any noise at all.

    I'm sure there are some ppl on here who are involved in underage football or have their ear to the ground about this stuff.

  2. #2
    Seasoned Pro Ezeikial's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,407
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    138
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    957
    Thanked in
    578 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophizer View Post
    Would the likes of Rovers/Bohs/Pats/Cork u17 teams now be much better than Belvedere or Kevins?
    This comparison is something of a red herring. Traditionally the DDSL export clubs have had little interest in u17 and above because the elite kids have generally already been trafficked to the UK by age 16.

    It is when u15 national league is introduced (and presumably followed by u13) that the shift in development emphasis will really be seen.

    Apart from their being a more national spread, the shift in elite player development in Dublin will become even more apparent at that point.

  3. #3
    Like the Fonz. Only a dog. Mr A's Avatar
    Joined
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the gutter, but looking at the stars
    Posts
    10,859
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,548
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,002
    Thanked in
    1,365 Posts
    Pats and Belvedere announce link up.

    http://www.stpatsfc.com/news.php?id=7508

  4. Thanks From:


  5. #4
    Reserves
    Joined
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Meath man in Dublin
    Posts
    732
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    183
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    172
    Thanked in
    115 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezeikial View Post
    It is when u15 national league is introduced (and presumably followed by u13) that the shift in development emphasis will really be seen.
    Fair point. I've found online that the u15 league is due to begin this August, so I presume that the national league u15 teams are already trying to source coaching staff and players for their u15 squads. Anyone heard yet if any players/coaches from the big 6 will be moving to teams in the national league?

  6. #5
    First Team Buller's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Location
    South Cider
    Posts
    1,122
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    64
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    47
    Thanked in
    30 Posts
    Great article!
    We have Damian Duff coaching our U15 team in an effort to entice them away from DDSL / big 6.
    League of Ireland underage sides wont make real progress until an U15 National League is setup, that is the age we need to target first!

  7. #6
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2009
    Location
    On a dodgy bus
    Posts
    10,565
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,281
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,011
    Thanked in
    1,754 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Buller View Post
    Great article!
    We have Damian Duff coaching our U15 team in an effort to entice them away from DDSL / big 6.
    League of Ireland underage sides wont make real progress until an U15 National League is setup, that is the age we need to target first!
    But, the under-15 league is starting in August?

    Kevin McHugh is in charge of the Harps under-15's.

  8. #7
    Seasoned Pro El-Pietro's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Cork
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,138
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    516
    Thanked in
    357 Posts
    Dan Murry and Billy Woods announced as the Under 15 Management team at City this evening. Delighted to have Dan back at the club.
    http://www.corkcityfc.ie/home/2017/0...eam-announced/

  9. #8
    Reserves
    Joined
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Meath man in Dublin
    Posts
    732
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    183
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    172
    Thanked in
    115 Posts
    More info on the belvo website about the official link with St Pats - http://www.belvederefc.com/club-news...etic.2157.html

  10. #9
    Seasoned Pro
    Joined
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    2,509
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    68
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    289
    Thanked in
    210 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954 View Post
    But, the under-15 league is starting in August?

    Kevin McHugh is in charge of the Harps under-15's.
    Rovers have under 14 and 15 teams in the ddsl already so I presume he is coaching them now and will bring the best ones into the national league plus some new recruits

  11. #10
    International Prospect Jofspring's Avatar
    Joined
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Limerick City
    Posts
    6,692
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    300
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    559
    Thanked in
    403 Posts
    Limerick had an issue before where they had open trials when the 17's were starting up. It was a bone of contention that they would be "robbing" the best players from other clubs and that the players already with Limerick at underage would be looked over for players coming from elsewhere. They decided after the trial to sign none of the players and stick with ones they already had at younger age groups coming through. The academy is actually causing a bigger divide in Limerick with junior-schoolboy clubs as they still continue to claim players are being robbed from them.

    Limerick have teams now starting at u4's all the way up to u15's, u17's, u'19's nationally.

  12. #11
    First Team
    Joined
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Terryland Park
    Posts
    2,135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,384
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    507
    Thanked in
    288 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jofspring View Post
    They decided after the trial to sign none of the players and stick with ones they already had at younger age groups coming through. The academy is actually causing a bigger divide in Limerick with junior-schoolboy clubs as they still continue to claim players are being robbed from them.
    Let them. They'll never be sated. Same attitude all around the country. Has nothing to do with player development and everything to do with protecting their own position.

  13. Thanks From:


  14. #12
    Biased against YOUR club pineapple stu's Avatar
    Joined
    Aug 2002
    Location
    In the long grass
    Posts
    29,805
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,285
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,505
    Thanked in
    1,556 Posts
    I hear prospective players for the UCD u15 team have to be have gotten at least three As in their Junior Cert mocks.

  15. #13
    Reserves joey B's Avatar
    Joined
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Donegal
    Posts
    868
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    37
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    102
    Thanked in
    65 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jofspring View Post
    Limerick had an issue before where they had open trials when the 17's were starting up. It was a bone of contention that they would be "robbing" the best players from other clubs and that the players already with Limerick at underage would be looked over for players coming from elsewhere. They decided after the trial to sign none of the players and stick with ones they already had at younger age groups coming through. The academy is actually causing a bigger divide in Limerick with junior-schoolboy clubs as they still continue to claim players are being robbed from them.

    Limerick have teams now starting at u4's all the way up to u15's, u17's, u'19's nationally.
    There's been similar claims in Donegal surrounding Harps Academys I think, there's also being accusations that the Harps academy was using money taken for training gear being used for the first team which is complete rubbish and was spread by people involved in running schoolboy football in the county.
    Irish by birth ,Harps by the grace of god.

  16. #14
    Capped Player nigel-harps1954's Avatar
    Joined
    Feb 2009
    Location
    On a dodgy bus
    Posts
    10,565
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,281
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,011
    Thanked in
    1,754 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by joey B View Post
    There's been similar claims in Donegal surrounding Harps Academys I think, there's also being accusations that the Harps academy was using money taken for training gear being used for the first team which is complete rubbish and was spread by people involved in running schoolboy football in the county.
    I wouldn't say people really. I'd say person.

    The animosity towards Harps in Donegal is less than it was ten years ago. There's still a select few people who would bend over backwards to screw over the club though.

  17. #15
    First Team hoops1's Avatar
    Joined
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,189
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    64
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    119
    Thanked in
    70 Posts
    Some very good points by Henderson, where I wouldn't agree with him is the removal of the competitive element in the younger ages. That's actually one of the best things to happen the game here. Will to win still surfaces very quickly between teams of similar standards, where before the technical aspect was more than not being totally lost in overly competitive games.

  18. #16
    Reserves
    Joined
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Meath man in Dublin
    Posts
    732
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    183
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    172
    Thanked in
    115 Posts
    Stephen O'Donnell was on the LoiWeekly podcast yesterday and made a v good point that if you're a good young player in Ireland you can easily be in a LOI team at the age of 18/19. This got me thinking about how much do we really need a u21/u23 league? Is it really the next most pressing issue that should be tackled once the u15 and u13 national league are up and running.

    The evidence seems to suggest that O'Donnell is right. Recently there has been quite a few young lads who've made the jump from u19s to seniors relatively easily like Ogbene, Ellis, Hoare, Jamie McGrath, and a whole bunch of young lads at Rovers currently like Clarke, Doona, Bolger, Boyd, Dobbs.

    The level of our league isn't as high as most European leagues so we don't have the enormous gap in standard that exists between underage and senior level. Maybe the lack of an u21/u23 league is actually not as big of a problem as some think. I'm guessing that this was in Ruud Dokter's thinking when he decided to create national leagues at u19, u17, u15 etc, instead of u18, u16 etc.

  19. #17
    Reserves sulywaterfordfc's Avatar
    Joined
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    469
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    15
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    53
    Thanked in
    45 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophizer View Post
    Stephen O'Donnell was on the LoiWeekly podcast yesterday and made a v good point that if you're a good young player in Ireland you can easily be in a LOI team at the age of 18/19. This got me thinking about how much do we really need a u21/u23 league? Is it really the next most pressing issue that should be tackled once the u15 and u13 national league are up and running.

    The evidence seems to suggest that O'Donnell is right. Recently there has been quite a few young lads who've made the jump from u19s to seniors relatively easily like Ogbene, Ellis, Hoare, Jamie McGrath, and a whole bunch of young lads at Rovers currently like Clarke, Doona, Bolger, Boyd, Dobbs.

    The level of our league isn't as high as most European leagues so we don't have the enormous gap in standard that exists between underage and senior level. Maybe the lack of an u21/u23 league is actually not as big of a problem as some think. I'm guessing that this was in Ruud Dokter's thinking when he decided to create national leagues at u19, u17, u15 etc, instead of u18, u16 etc.
    Then again another way of looking at it. Handful of players could be excelling for a clubs youth team but may not be ready for the step up just yet. Its better for player development to play from 19 onwards then play the odd game from the bench here and there and both club and player hoping the player develops further. Imo it hinders the players development due to the lack of game time. Yes you'll get 1/2 players ready to take the jump straight away from U19s to first team but at the same time you don't want young player with talent to be burnt out at first team level early in there career. But there'll be others whom have ability and potential but not yet be at the level required, the physical level being one of the bigger factors. If there's an U21 league it gives players additional chance of development especially ones just one on the border line. Players get regular football then get the odd first team game here and there, helps the player develop and get first team experience along the way. It to an extent stops clubs filling there squads each year with U19 players, some of whom who get very few chances. Example been that I know of, in Waterford there's three U19 players on first team contracts one of which been 17. All three came off the bench in the cup game this week and play regularly for U19s. But if they were overage for the 19s that'd of been there first competitive game of the season. Young lads sitting on the sideline watching will get players nowhere if anything it's going to turn them off football especially when they're putting in all the hard work few days a week in training for it to end in getting a sit in the stand watching on. Personally I think if there were U13,15, 17, 21 (Which could even act as an reserve team with a limited number of overage players allowed play each match - could even add junior teams to the league whom have aspirations of later joining the league) it would see the level of player development improve and there'd be a more of a level of professionalism in the league and gives the league a better look.

    Obviously for the league to go and improve as a whole there needs to be personal running clubs whom know what they're doing. And ultimately there needs to be an association whom has the leagues best interests at heart or just even taking some sort of interest in the league with proper management and better financial support, e.g. Prize money. When you see clubs allowed get to themselves into the position of Waterford and Athlone last year is laughable, mainly because its a regular occurrence in the LOI. And if clubs were to start running the league then the league would be even more of a mess, some clubs can't even get there own houses order let alone run a national league.
    Last edited by sulywaterfordfc; 07/04/2017 at 5:33 PM.

  20. Thanks From:


  21. #18
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    17,750
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,672
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,006
    Thanked in
    3,158 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophizer View Post
    Stephen O'Donnell was on the LoiWeekly podcast yesterday and made a v good point that if you're a good young player in Ireland you can easily be in a LOI team at the age of 18/19. This got me thinking about how much do we really need a u21/u23 league? Is it really the next most pressing issue that should be tackled once the u15 and u13 national league are up and running.

    The evidence seems to suggest that O'Donnell is right. Recently there has been quite a few young lads who've made the jump from u19s to seniors relatively easily like Ogbene, Ellis, Hoare, Jamie McGrath, and a whole bunch of young lads at Rovers currently like Clarke, Doona, Bolger, Boyd, Dobbs.

    The level of our league isn't as high as most European leagues so we don't have the enormous gap in standard that exists between underage and senior level. Maybe the lack of an u21/u23 league is actually not as big of a problem as some think. I'm guessing that this was in Ruud Dokter's thinking when he decided to create national leagues at u19, u17, u15 etc, instead of u18, u16 etc.
    The LSL and other intermediate leagues are all the U21 development we need. We need more link-ups like Dundalk with Malahide and Pats with Crumlin and Belvo (or UCD with their LSL team) and that will be sorted. Hopefully the expansion of the underage LOI will help normalise that and make it work better for everyone.

  22. #19
    Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months. Charlie Darwin's Avatar
    Joined
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    17,750
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    3,672
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,006
    Thanked in
    3,158 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by sulywaterfordfc View Post
    Then again another way of looking at it. Handful of players could be excelling for a clubs youth team but may not be ready for the step up just yet. Its better for player development to play from 19 onwards then play the odd game from the bench here and there and both club and player hoping the player develops further.
    It's less of an issue in Dublin where there are fully-developed junior and intermediate leagues, but surely a lot of Waterford's (and Wexford's) "gap" is bridged by the likes of North End, etc. The ideal solution, long term, would be a fully-developed intermediate structure so we had proper provincial amateur structures below the League.

  23. #20
    Reserves
    Joined
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    794
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    100
    Thanked in
    81 Posts
    Drogheda United and Home Farm just announced a link for the next 5 years

Page 1 of 8 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. European underage leagues
    By HarpoJoyce in forum Other Countries
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 23/05/2017, 12:24 PM
  2. Underage subforum
    By nigel-harps1954 in forum Support
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04/10/2016, 10:52 PM
  3. Dublin 15 Underage
    By Macy in forum Schoolboys
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 29/07/2011, 7:45 AM
  4. Underage cheating
    By pineapple stu in forum Ireland
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 24/11/2003, 4:50 PM
  5. underage games
    By joe in forum Cork City
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05/11/2003, 6:21 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •